A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?

The Russians are pulling out of Georgia when EU monitors arrive. They have consistently said that they are acting in accordance with their agreement with Sarkozy. This appears to be to probably be correct, with the exception of keeping the troops at Poti. The map from Janes posted up above shows more or less where the Russians are/ have been. Gori was the base from which the attack on South Ossetia was mounted.

Quote :

Russia in announcement on troops pullout (Breaking News)

Russian president Dmitry Medvedev says Russian troops will pull out of Georgian territory outside of South Ossetia and Abkhazia after European monitors deploy next month.

Mr Medvedev also says international talks on the conflict in Georgia would be held beginning October 15 in Geneva.

He spoke today at a Moscow news conference after talks with visiting French president Nicholas Sarkozy.

The Russian leader insists that Russia is complying with terms of the ceasefire that Mr Sarkozy negotiated last month.

He also says Russian troops will pull out of the area near the Black Sea port of Poti and nearby areas in the next seven days, but only if Georgia signs a pledge to not use force against Abkhazia.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/World/mhqlqlcwcwkf/

The anti is on the up - Russia is flying bombers to Venezuela to take part in an exercise. Putin and Medvedev are not going to lie back and enjoy having the NATO fleet parked 10 k off their shores.

Russia has pulled out of S.O and Abhkavia. About time that NATO backed out of the Black Sea and then everyone can go home.

The Georgian opposition has now begun to move on Saakashvili for his "handling" of the whole affair.

I do not think they have pulled out of SO and the other ,have they.

Human Rights watch are reporting that there were fewer than 100 civilian casualties in South Ossetia.

youngdan wrote:

I do not think they have pulled out of SO and the other ,have they.

I think they have a month. Meanwhile, they claim that the EU assured Georgia that the peacekeepers would be allowed into the disputed regions, which the Rusisans won't allow. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7608720.stm

Who started it? Senators and Congressmen are confused about their stance on Russia/Georgia. Hillary Clinton calls for a committee "to get the facts straight". Are the Americans about to back off?

johnfás wrote:

Human Rights watch are reporting that there were fewer than 100 civilian casualties in South Ossetia.

Wikipedia has a good page at this stage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

There is discussion of the numbers of people killed here:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/11/europe/EU-Russia-Georgia-Death-Toll.php

According the US video, the estimate is about 500 people dead. When the first figures were given Tskhinvali was being pounded, people were hiding out in basements or trying to get to N. Ossetia. Some people were buried in back gardens. The situation was chaotic. It seems to be acknowledged finally that Georgian started this.

youngdan wrote:

I do not think they have pulled out of SO and the other ,have they.

Beg your pardon, mental glitch there. Russia is pulling back into South Ossetia and Abhavia. They will not leave S.O and Abkavia. It seems to me that they have broadly stuck the agreement they made with Sarkozy. Auditor, that is an interesting video. Truth will out, even if it takes time.

Last week a lot of critical voices were raised against Saakashvili in the US. Now its London.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2760a7be-85a3-11dd-a1ac-0000779fd18c.html

The Financial Times is reporting that the Institute for Strategic Studies has severely criticised Saakashvili and the Georgian government for attacking South Ossetia and then expecting to be bailed out once they were out of their depth, and the US for pushing Georgian membership of NATO.

When the war was on, it was difficult to find any report from the Ossetian perspective - Der Spiegel online has this report on how teenagers and young men with petrol bombs and rifles took on the Georgian army of 12,000 troops.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,574516,00.html

Photos of the war here:
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-34610.html

[quote="cactus flower"]When the war was on, it was difficult to find any report from the Ossetian perspective - Der Spiegel online has this report on how teenagers and young men with petrol bombs and rifles took on the Georgian army of 12,000 troops.

Youngdan would be proud. Didn't they all go and plunder Georgia when the oppertunity arose, or is that just frightful Western propaganda?

Georgia got off lightly. The 2 provences wanted out and now they are. The Georgians that got killed fighting for a bit of dirt that they did not own now have all the dirt they need.

A few weeks ago this kip was of vital importance but thanks be to God the economy is crashing finally we might mind our own business.

[quote="905"]

cactus flower wrote:

When the war was on, it was difficult to find any report from the Ossetian perspective - Der Spiegel online has this report on how teenagers and young men with petrol bombs and rifles took on the Georgian army of 12,000 troops.

Youngdan would be proud. Didn't they all go and plunder Georgia when the oppertunity arose, or is that just frightful Western propaganda?

Sarcasm will get you nowhere 905. I don't have a romantic view. Der Spiegel's report says they destroyed some Georgian villages in South Ossetia that had been bases of opposition. Wars are generally dirty. There have been stories of ethnic cleansing and looting going back years about the Georgians and to a limited extent (they are a very small group of people) about the South Ossetians.

There was a car bombing in both Abkavia and South Ossetia today, shown on Al-Jazeera. This is co-ordinated attack is very sad.

The British have recently come out and made accusations that Georgia used indiscriminate force during their recent foray into South Ossetia. Milliband raised the issue with Saakashvili, prompting him to deny any war-crimes.

Funny that it wasn't brought up at the time.

Funny indeed, but there seems to be a consensus now that the claims of Georgia to have been shelled for days before they attacked South Ossetia just did not stand up.

Now there is a definite schism opening up between the US and the EU over relations with Russia (our major energy supplier) and also the entry of Georgia and the Ukraine into NATO.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/12/2008122182927130700.html

The diverging of the ways was bound to happen and good to see. We need more balance in our relations with the USA and Russia.