The ISEQ Thread Part II - Trading below 2000

Another day another dollar. BOI shares now 1.75. I'm off to check my balance.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Another day another dollar. BOI shares now 1.75. I'm off to check my balance.

Great scott. I was going to buy a load at €4.50

Slim Buddha wrote:

I was talking to a guy from UBS last night who said that Credit Suisse have a large play in the running based on falling markets. If it pans out for them, they will earn hugely from this. I asked him how big was the potential profit they could make from this. "Enough to bail out Iceland single-handedly". Which is big.

He also said to watch Credit Suisse's quarterly figures due to be released on October 23rd. I asked him was there any significance to this. He just said "Not only do I expect them to buck the trend, they will have enough to go shopping (for banks) big time".

Interesting.

UBS being bailed out by swiss govt.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Another day another dollar. BOI shares now 1.75. I'm off to check my balance.

Great scott. I was going to buy a load at €4.50

me too. and to think i was laughing when they were at Eur6 thinking they'd fall no further.

a day is a long time in business!!!

My opinion is that the chances of GM surviving in a free market is zero. However with GM we are not in a free market because just a few days ago they got a government loan of 25 billion. The number of cars sold looking forward is likely to be much lower than even the most pessimistic forecast. Do you know any regular person thinking of buying a new car these days. The only reason GM can borrow any money is the expectation that the government will not allow GM to fail. Chrysler cost 3 billion but 300 billion is a different story. http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iirh5l0aUXipJBbBEYZ0V3AjUOXQ

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Another day another dollar. BOI shares now 1.75. I'm off to check my balance.

Great scott. I was going to buy a load at €4.50

Did we not entrust your wallet to the safe keeping of your wife a few weeks ago when you were about to inflict economic harm to your household. You are a danger to your desendants

What would youngdan do if he won the Euromillions on Friday evening? Surely buying gold at this stage would be very much buying at its peak.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Another day another dollar. BOI shares now 1.75. I'm off to check my balance.

Great scott. I was going to buy a load at €4.50

I am well glad you didn't jump. Caution is a useful attribute during the bear season. They have voracious feeding habits if you linger long.

If you were considering the Banks another factors are the possibility of failure, exposure to bad debt and liabilities, and possible takeover or merger.

Recession ahead and boring basics appeal to me. We all need to eat and there will always be some market for concrete.

Squire wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Another day another dollar. BOI shares now 1.75. I'm off to check my balance.

Great scott. I was going to buy a load at €4.50

I am well glad you didn't jump. Caution is a useful attribute during the bear season. They have voracious feeding habits if you linger long.

If you were considering the Banks another factors are the possibility of failure, exposure to bad debt and liabilities, and possible takeover or merger.

Recession ahead and boring basics appeal to me. We all need to eat and there will always be some market for concrete.

In Ireland, the market for concrete is entirely dependent on the road building programme.

Has anyone noticed that the ISEQ thread has cloned itself, after reaching 40 pages?

Cheers to all who have posted in it!

Weyhey!! Now it's going to be locked and we can use the other one. Thanks indeed to all who have posted on it.

We can give the first part a fancy studious name for the perusal of all especially EVMs kids who were just spared their Christmas pressies!

Part II Here

According to your link youngdan, Ford is worth 2.7 billion and GM has a market value of 4.7 billion. Any money in Car Museums? We could buy both with the Pension Reserve Fund and open some Car Museums.

Ah come on Brian.

WTF happened the thread ? It's all over the place.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

WTF happened the thread ? It's all over the place.

It seems to have automatically split into two chunks after forty pages. That's probably enough of ISEQ plummeting to the floor anyway.

Maybe we were hacked? I didn't split it anyway.

Auditor #9 wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

WTF happened the thread ? It's all over the place.

It seems to have automatically split into two chunks after forty pages. That's probably enough of ISEQ plummeting to the floor anyway.

Maybe we were hacked? I didn't split it anyway.

It's mixed up, i.e. not chronological.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

WTF happened the thread ? It's all over the place.

It seems to have automatically split into two chunks after forty pages. That's probably enough of ISEQ plummeting to the floor anyway.

Maybe we were hacked? I didn't split it anyway.

It's mixed up, i.e. not chronological.

Yeah I unlocked the longer piece and added one or two posts onto it today. Maybe they should be moved onto the next one ?

Feck it should we just merge them again?

Auditor #9 wrote:

Feck it should we just merge them again?

If they will merge, yes. But as they were being posted on in parallel there will always be a strangeness there.

Ok they won't merge. 40 pages is the limit. It's enough in fairness.

Oh. It's OK. They are in order. It split them from 9th October.

cactus flower wrote:

In Ireland, the market for concrete is entirely dependent on the road building programme.

No its not you would be hard pushed to build anything without concrete. Bases for those wind turbines? Floors, stairs, farm yards..............


YoungDan

Don't know if you watched utter tedium 3. McCain V Obama the sequel. The chosen, who will be the next President was going on about Detroit workers so intervention - support inevitable. However in the long run it will need more than government support.

[quote="youngdan"]My opinion is that the chances of GM surviving in a free market is zero. However with GM we are not in a free market because just a few days ago they got a government loan of 25 billion. The number of cars sold looking forward is likely to be much lower than even the most pessimistic forecast. Do you know any regular person thinking of buying a new car these days. The only reason GM can borrow any money is the expectation that the government will not allow GM to fail. Chrysler cost 3 billion but 300 billion is a different story. http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iirh5l0aUXipJBbBEYZ0V3AjUOXQ[/quote]

Thanks for that, youngdan. In my opinion, it is bad enough when the economic environment makes trading extremely difficult but a major company in a difficult industry does not need particularly bad management. GM have that, though, as evidenced by the "employees and retirees discount abuse scandal" whereby employees and retirees ordered GM products at company discount rates for members of their families. This was technically against the rules. It did not stop GM hiring lawyers to recover the monies in question at a rate twice that of the total amount recoverable.

My wife bought some vehicles with a discount because her brother works for GM but I don't know anything about court cases.

The American auto makers got the shaft in my opinion. Foreign companies came in to manufacture here to get around quotas. The whole free trade baloney is rubbish anyway but that is another story.

When the likes of BMW were shopping around to states for the best deal they were able to win grants and tax deals that were ridiculous. I don't have figures but the bottom line was that foreigners ended up with modern plants cheap and GM had to do with old plants.

Another thing is the ease of raising money. Companies had to borrow to compete with the result that their long term survival was getting more difficult. This is a problem with every company in ever industry and the problem is now coming home to roost.

youngdan wrote:

My wife bought some vehicles with a discount because her brother works for GM but I don't know anything about court cases.

The American auto makers got the shaft in my opinion. Foreign companies came in to manufacture here to get around quotas. The whole free trade baloney is rubbish anyway but that is another story.

When the likes of BMW were shopping around to states for the best deal they were able to win grants and tax deals that were ridiculous. I don't have figures but the bottom line was that foreigners ended up with modern plants cheap and GM had to do with old plants.

Another thing is the ease of raising money. Companies had to borrow to compete with the result that their long term survival was getting more difficult. This is a problem with every company in ever industry and the problem is now coming home to roost.

Story here, youngdan.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080830/AUTO01/808300368

youngdan wrote:

My wife bought some vehicles with a discount because her brother works for GM but I don't know anything about court cases.

The American auto makers got the shaft in my opinion. Foreign companies came in to manufacture here to get around quotas. The whole free trade baloney is rubbish anyway but that is another story.

When the likes of BMW were shopping around to states for the best deal they were able to win grants and tax deals that were ridiculous. I don't have figures but the bottom line was that foreigners ended up with modern plants cheap and GM had to do with old plants.

Another thing is the ease of raising money. Companies had to borrow to compete with the result that their long term survival was getting more difficult. This is a problem with every company in ever industry and the problem is now coming home to roost.

You've got my full attention with this post youngdan. Imo all the stuff about subprime is a distraction. If people in America were able to afford a house on their salary then there would be no subprime crisis. I posted a chart on another thread that showed the US is still the world's most competitive economy, so so you're not being dragged down by the profligacy that has happened here in Ireland, and one would think that there shouldn't be a national and personal debt problem in the US. I can think of two possible reasons why GM would be in trouble -

1. Quotas have protected the US companies from open competition with foreign brands. Because of this they have been slow to modernise designs and reduce fuel consumption of their vehicles and are now completely caught out with the outdated lines they are producing. With easier money being made in the last five years on real estates and paper juggling, why would shareholders take a cut in dividends in order to invest in modernisation? Redesign and retooling at this stage would be an enormous cost, and a very high risk in the current shrinking market. Borrowing has been very cheap over the last few years, so that can't have been the reason.

2. The rate of profit has been squeezed by competition and increased automation. A worker breaks down and he/she replaced cheaply. A production line needs replacement and the cost is enormous. This is the case everywhere, not just the US. The only way to raise the rate of profit is to attack the wages and conditions of the people making the cars.

The US should be in the position to think about starting up afresh with competitive new designs, but now they are up against China and India, where there is more innovation and bigger populations and workforces.

We have plenty of experience of FDI employment here in Ireland. Grants are given out for start up, government gets the tax on the workers salaries. The alternative to having it is to let it go elsewhere. The US wants access to everyone else's markets so unless we're going to seal our borders, FDI is better than no FDI.

The day of the big gas guzzling car is over. The US is no longer the dominant oil producer and in an open market could not hold on to dominance in car manufacture. Really, all that's left is protectionism and its best buddy, war.

My other half just went into bank with cheque to cash and was told to come back in an hour as they had run out of cash!!!
His name has been put on a list. I shit you not