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 Density in Dublin - Up or Out

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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:25 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:

It looks like a extractor pipe from a large underground tumble dryer

Must be meant to compliment the giant spire of the large underground cathedral... that is what the spike is meant to be apparently.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 pm

johnfás wrote:
SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:

It looks like a extractor pipe from a large underground tumble dryer

Must be meant to compliment the giant spire of the large underground cathedral... that is what the spike is meant to be apparently.

That makes the Guinness brewery a subterranean multiple missile silo....it's all making sense


Last edited by SeathrúnCeitinn on Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:31 pm

Perhaps we could get Damien Hirst to build us a glass bridge filled with used cigarettes or something equally wacky.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:31 pm

Now a large underground tumble dryer would be art worth having and usefull too! You're a genius SeathrúnCeitinn, you'll get arts council funding too, more if you call it something irish
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:32 pm

johnfás wrote:
Perhaps we could get Damien Hirst to build us a glass bridge filled with used cigarettes or something equally wacky.

Then we could sell it
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:34 pm

johnfás wrote:
Perhaps we could get Damien Hirst to build us a glass bridge filled with used cigarettes or something equally wacky.

And it wouldn't cost us any more than what we usually end up paying for a bridge across the liffey.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:35 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
johnfás wrote:
Perhaps we could get Damien Hirst to build us a glass bridge filled with used cigarettes or something equally wacky.

Then we could sell it

To a 12 year old Russian billionaire.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:13 am

Here Cookie...Would you give me a grant?

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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:23 am

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
Here Cookie...Would you give me a grant?


*writes cheque furiously*
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:10 am

Perhaps we should be building down. Plenty of room for some catacombs and cellars.

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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:13 am

We could go like Montreal - all of this photograph is in their 'underground city' :

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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:17 am



Or the underground cities of Cappodocia.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:53 am

cookiemonster wrote:
johnfás wrote:
I don't think it is going to suit the area at all.

It's too big for a start. And the seagulls, has any body thought of the seagulls.

I do like those light boxes in O'connell street with the people walking.

I like seagulls, pigeons and starlings. So I am happy with the large perch. Quirky sculpture suits me fine, but the light boxes and that digit in O'Connell Street leave me cold.


Cactus flower.
I am all for going down. Depending on ground conditions, basements can add considerably to the density and are useful for many uses other than just storage and car parks. Basements are often needed for reasons of structure. In Paris about 8 levels above the ground is normal, but we are further North and sunlight less. In our weather covered areas are often more attractive, but alas malls etc tend to close at night and often become sterile zones.

It just needs a different outlook and a desire to increase use and density. If we put in an underground rail station why not also build shops units under ground? If we have rail stations why not build on top, why should we have ground surface car parking? In fact why should ground level matter? We can easily raise gardens to roof or higher levels and provided there are logical pathways and cycle ways and interest and amenities where the walkways are ground has no real significance in development. We have the technology to do whatever we can imagine. It is about creating interesting and secure places for people, designing for people and their diverse needs and interests. It needs mixed usage to maintain interest 24 hours.

There are a lot of advantages in high density, as it creates more income per sq km and with that more shops and amenities, but it needs much better maintenance, standard of finish and services.

We would also need to reconsider our current development models. We rely on developers building a unit and there is little co-ordination between adjoining units. We could learn a lot from the economic models used to develop Bath, Georgian London and Dublin, Edinburgh and Paris. We need a system that allows various sizes of development to come together to create a unified whole. A system where many can cooperate and know what is expected. This does not rule out the one offs, but provides a better overall development framework.

Another problem is perhaps our concept of the city, a core and suburbia. The size of modern cities is such that they are multi-cored and how you coordinate transport and commerce is crucial to their working efficiency. How about a linear city, Dublin-Athlone or Dublin-Belfast! With linear models the countryside does not retreat ever further from the residential and transport can be rationalised.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:45 pm

Some of the things that I like about living in Dublin:Liberty Hall and the Custom House as I'm walking to BusarusThe view of Dublin from LH on a sunny day..I LOVE Bolands MillAnd this, I think the slightly weird gothic frontage is amazing and I'm worried about what Bono wants to do to it..I like Curved St. because it does what it says on the tin... This is cool but would be nicer without the junkies...Even though they destroyed Westmoreland St, I like this building..And A few things that make me sad...
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:49 pm

Sorry about the layout of the post...I tried to fix it but it hates me.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:49 pm

I like the one from (presumably) fairly high up Liberty Hall. Would love to get up there with a camera. I think there used to be a restaurant on the top floor when it first opened?
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:29 pm

What many fail to realise is the investment in time and materials required to build any great city. It takes centuries and the fine buildings of any era are often massive investments.

For me the most interesting cities have been around for a long time and have a rich mixture of old and new all interlocking in often the most chaotic way. It is the sort of juxtapositions that I would defy anyone to dream up on a drawing board. But most of all cities must be about people where many grand schemes fail is that they seem to be created to look good from the view of a seagull and often at ground level there is little reason to linger. You need diverse usage at pedestrian level and an ability to allow the building to adopt and change use. The strangle hold of some planning zoning concepts need to be questioned.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:15 pm

unaligned wrote:
Sorry about the layout of the post...I tried to fix it but it hates me.

unaligned - thanks for that lovely and different tour of Dublin.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:28 pm

cactus flower wrote:
unaligned wrote:
Sorry about the layout of the post...I tried to fix it but it hates me.

unaligned - thanks for that lovely and different tour of Dublin.

I tried to get in to Busaras on the open day, but missed the tour. What a fantastic building, it should be tended with loving care.

Dublin is a fantastic city. It has the Georgian streets and squares, that are endlessy adaptable and should be kept intact. The coast is fantastic too, and the River. High Rise I think should go in docklands - but the oil storage is far too close to the city and the sea level rise and flooding issues need to be taken into account.

The other area perfect for high rise is around the outside edge of the Phoenix Park. I'm sorry if anyone here has a home there, but imo all the low density suburbs around its outside edge should be demolished and we should build our own version of Manhattan overlooking our own version of Central Park. It should be landscaped in much more variety and biodiversity rather than entirely kept as a rather dull deer park.
Stephens Green should be sacrosanct and the heathens who want to turn it into a set of air vents and stairs for a metro should be locked away for their own mental safety.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:32 pm

The Michael Scott mosaics on Busáras are very good. The building would still be standing proud if they had maintained it properly. I don't know where they get off saying let's knock it down and rebuild a new one. It is merely in need of refurbishment following years of neglect.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:33 pm

johnfás wrote:
The Michael Scott mosaics on Busáras are very good. The building would still be standing proud if they had maintained it properly. I don't know where they get off saying let's knock it down and rebuild a new one. It is merely in need of refurbishment following years of neglect.

Save Busáras ! cheers cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:34 pm

Some good ones and bad ones there unaligned - the AIB bank on Westmoreland street is a good building and there are a good few other ones around like that - the one you can just see in your photo of the Heineken Building (Connolly House?) on the corner at Westmoreland street - that's like a little castle.

I think Dublin is fecked anyway in the centre - just look at D'Olier street in the picture of the Heineken building - look at all that seventies shite !! There's way too much of that in Dublin and it's hardly worth preserving the city centre when there's such ugliness around. One solution: wrecking ball.

Other cities have a successful juxtaposition of classic buildings and new glass ones and I think one sets off the other. Lower Manhattan, Sydney and Boston have those successful juxtapositions in my mind - the Courgette in London is a beauty too.

There's more will to build the tall fellas outside Dublin now - will we see a high-rise Cork and Limerick before Dublin?


Eglinton Street Tower, Cork
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:37 pm

The two tallest buildings in the country are already in Cork.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:45 pm

johnfás wrote:
The Michael Scott mosaics on Busáras are very good. The building would still be standing proud if they had maintained it properly. I don't know where they get off saying let's knock it down and rebuild a new one. It is merely in need of refurbishment following years of neglect.

It's just such a sad building right now. They should move the busses elsewhere and turn it into an architecture museum if something. Busaras is one of my favourite buildings ever.
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PostSubject: Re: Density in Dublin - Up or Out   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:56 pm

I'm no engineer but what they should do is change the traffic flows around it to give it more room. The buses always seem to have to come in and out of the same gate and then manouvre around in the forecourt. This is all beside a 3/4 lane road running behind the Customs House. Surely they could do something there?
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