Yanks and Guns

You hang around with interesting people NDS. The movie says 11000 plus murders and that is the figure I used so divide it by 80 times the population here versus there and you see that the rate is not too much different,45%. When people are put into large urban area of course crime will be higher. Your buddy would have you believe he needs a tank to go to the store for smokes. This is what I believe, there were 6 million jews baked in ovens, if each had even a point 22 pistol with 8 rounds in the magizine there would soon be a sparsity of jackboots.

youngdan wrote:

You hang around with interesting people NDS. The movie says 11000 plus murders and that is the figure I used so divide it by 80 times the population here versus there and you see that the rate is not too much different,45%. When people are put into large urban area of course crime will be higher. Your buddy would have you believe he needs a tank to go to the store for smokes. This is what I believe, there were 6 million jews baked in ovens, if each had even a point 22 pistol with 8 rounds in the magizine there would soon be a sparsity of jackboots.

Youngdan, can you explain the mistrust of government in parts of the US population, and whether or not you are for a democratic system?

The lies are so plain that only the diehards believe them. We are told that 19 terrorists of which 15 were Saudi attacked after getting 100000 wired from Pakistani intelligence so who is attacked back but Iraq while the Saudis who fund the whole thing are walking hand in hand down in Texas. The democrats are worse. The election of 2006 had only one issue, stop the war. As soon as the democrats won both houses they voted time and again for more funding for the war. The democrats have been in power for 2 years almost and it is the same thing. You have Hillary making up stories about snipers and saying that she is against NAFTA even though her husband signed it. Then Obama says he is against Nafta while he has proved he is fooling us. The democrats are a party for the rich. In Massachsetts we have 2 poor democratic senators. John Kerry is less rich than Kennedy because he is only after marrying 1.5 billion dollars. His first wife was dumped because she was worth only 300 million. Nobody knows what Kennedy is worth because it is all in blind trusts. Nancy Pilosi who is the house speaker and is worth almost a billion. I could go on. I assume that everyone knows the republicans are lying. There is no democracy in this country at the moment because a candidate must be from a clique of crooks to get heard at all. This election has been better than most as at least people saw through Rudy and hopefully they see through Hillary. There is a difference between a Republic and a Democracy and the founders wanted a Republic. That is why so much effort and debate went into the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The dominant branch of government was to be the Congress with the president with his veto pen and the judicial branch as checks on them. The states were to have a big say as the 2 senators from each state were to be picked by the state legislators and not the general population. When this was changed by an amendment to the constitution it was not good. So I would like to have a Republic. A republic would not force the views of the majority onto the minority. I would not try to force anyone to support anyone else just because I was sorry for them. I would either help myself or shut my mouth.

notdevsson wrote:

I went out with an American soldier called D****. (I cannot post his name because it could get him in trouble under the strange rules in the US army about gays in the army). He comes from Orange county, California. We went out one night to Bowling for Columbine. He couldn't understand why Irish people were laughing at America's obsession with guns. He had always presumed that America's gun laws were normal worldwide, not that they were regarded as crazy.

He had received his first gun from his father at the age of 9. He has a collection of 12 pistols (at least he had then) and a host of other guns. HE goes nowhere without a gun when home. Everyone around him has guns. They have to bodycheck every kid going to school for firearms. He witnessed his first killing - a drive by - aged 14. By the time he left school one-fifth of his class had either been shot, shot at, or shot dead.

Re your statistics BTW YD, they are completely wrong. In his local town alone (population 5000) the murder rate was higher than in all of Ireland.

He couldn't get over the fact that he was in a cinema watching a film about guns in the US and no-one in the cinema had a gun with them (or indeed that no-one other than me had ever seen a gun. I did because I grew up on a farm with shotguns, etc which were used to kill crows). It freaked the guy out when I said that the police were unarmed. He made a beeline for the first guard he saw when we left the Screen on College Street to ask him was it true that police in Ireland were unarmed. He was also struck by the fact that he saw women walking alone up Church Street. Where he was from no woman would walk anywhere alone, without some male friend 'packing'. He was particularly amazed at the low murder rate in Ireland. Some blocks in downtown Dallas have higher murder rates than all of Ireland. And Limerick, which is in the middle of a gang war, has one of the highest murder rates in Ireland yet has a murder rate most US towns would dream of. It finally dawned on him what non-Americans (YD excepted) have realised for years: gun availability does not cut crime, it increases it.

The guy is now in Iraq, where he jokes that the number of guns available makes him feel right at home!

In one tragic twist, for the last three years he has been dating a Californian man who has three children by his ex-wife. The oldest son, Aaron, was gunned down and killed while playing basketball. A man with a legal gun had got annoyed that someone in the basketball team had parked in front of his house, so he went into the house, got the gun, and open fire on the team, killing three players, including Aaron. Aaron was just gone 17.

After reading this marvellous piece of prose is it any wonder that I could not reply for about a year. NDS this GI Joe was filling you with some severe macho talk to get you between the sheets. One third of his school was shot. Where did he learn his arithmatic?, Mogadishu High.

Since I am here how about those useless Indians. Are they all like Gandhi and not a set of balls between them. Ten lads came shoot hundreds for 3 days, Lucky there wasn't twenty. If those cow lovers had guns they might have fared better. I never heard of anything as docile as these mules. Even the cops ran away

http://www.dailyindia.com/show/284306.php

Cactus, you are afraid of guns but wouldn't you even take a shot. There were only 2 shooters at each location. No wonder the Brits were able to control these lugs with a very small number of troops. The muslims will kill them all after seeing what a handfull achieved.

YoungDan

Everything in India takes time, they probably hadn't completed the necessary paperwork, but once they do! They have some very effective regiments. I wouldn't underestimate their resolve once they get moving. They defeated the Japanese at Imphal and Kohima. The police in India generally don't mess around either once they get going!

As for guns and shooting on one hand nothing worse than a bunch of excited amateurs trying to defend themselves. More likely to kill each other. Look at the way some people drive, give them all guns, you got to be kidding.

The point about the Jews however is correct, could not have happened if they were armed and brings us back to the point do you trust the government or any government, and the potential domination of any majority. You would be crazy to trust any government. Democracy is no protection against bigotry it can act to legitimise. Look North of the border.

Sitting in Squire Hall with a cross bow and a shot gun or two is not going to protect me if some malign government is going to pick my sort off. Firstly it is unlikely that 'my sort' will get their act together until they were already defeated and secondly we would be picked off one by one. How many of us would be a match for trained troops? If I put my mind to it I could probably take a few with me but it would be by bobby traps rather than shoot out. I think best protection in such circumstances is a suitcase and a long distance ticket, which is one reason why I feel shame at how many genuine asylum seekers are treated.

youngdan, far from being afraid of guns, I am a mean clay pigeon shot and have had a high old time playing with heavier stuff in shooting ranges over your way. When I said I was having duck for Christmas dinner I meant DUCK!!!!

When people are ready to fight and need to, prior lack of guns has not been an impediment in any historical case I can think of.
Six year olds shooting their brothers and sisters is not something I would want to see here.

We are facing a crash of society. People of high ideals from 2300 AD will be dealing with bandits from 1700AD. Hopefully milities will form to take on the army. The amount of money wasted on the Irish Army is a disgrace and they should be disbanded immediately. Leave the lads in Chad there as we don't need them anymore

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/024230.html

This is a good article on gun ownership in India.

I heard a good slogan on the radio the other day.

Every Jew a 22.

All they needed was a small pistol to save 6 million

youngdan wrote:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/024230.html

This is a good article on gun ownership in India.

I heard a good slogan on the radio the other day.

Every Jew a 22.

All they needed was a small pistol to save 6 million

That is most unlikely. There were armed uprisings in which Jewish people fought. They were fighting against tanks.

You speak of the Warsaw Uprising perchance. I am talking of the roundups to bring them to the camps.

Not very wise fighting a tank with a .22. The Jews just got on the trains like sheep. The had no arms but I believe that they refused to believe what was happening to them. Kinda like when I said the iseq was going to 1000 nobody believed that either.

Being an ostrich does not work in real life. Some old fools think Bertie Ahern is a fine gentleman because they can not admit to being suckers. What a laugh.

youngdan wrote:

You speak of the Warsaw Uprising perchance. I am talking of the roundups to bring them to the camps.

Not very wise fighting a tank with a .22. The Jews just got on the trains like sheep. The had no arms but I believe that they refused to believe what was happening to them. Kinda like when I said the iseq was going to 1000 nobody believed that either.

Being an ostrich does not work in real life. Some old fools think Bertie Ahern is a fine gentleman because they can not admit to being suckers. What a laugh.

So given the very high level of gun ownership in the US, you must be very optimistic for the future of US democracy?

I think the recent events in Georgia/South Ossetia illustrated the uselessness of well-armed amateurs against an army. They were competent enough when it came to marauding.

Had the Jews fought back do ye think it would have deterred the Nazis? It would have legitimised and justified the harsh methods, to them and maybe to other Germans too.

905 wrote:

I think the recent events in Georgia/South Ossetia illustrated the uselessness of well-armed amateurs against an army. They were competent enough when it came to marauding.

Had the Jews fought back do ye think it would have deterred the Nazis? It would have legitimised and justified the harsh methods, to them and maybe to other Germans too.

Good points, as always 905. If amateurs want to take on an army, they would want at least a portion of that army on-side.

Was it not Denmark, where Jewish people were not taken by the Nazi occupiers? when Jews were ordered to start wearing the Star of David, the King went out for his walk in the park the next morning with a Star of David on his coat.

I looked this up and found it to be urban legend: the true story is more interesting, as always

http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/denmark.asp

The point was, the people of Denmark hid and assisted the Jews in Denmark - almost all were saved (258 out of 7,000 were deported).

If ye want to argue that the Jews were better off without firearms then ye should ask a survivor of the camps his opinion. This idea of going meekly to your death is not my cup of tea though. 6 million died without as much as a squeel. If you two girls were there ye would be in the oven like a thanksgiven turkey as well

An army can not win against a guerilla army when resistance is put up. The Afghans beat the Soviets and the Viet Cong beat the Americans but ye conveniently forgot that. Beat the French as well.

I have no hope for democracy as they have never worked in the long term. Ireland at the moment is always the final result. Everyone wanting something for nothing

The US was not set up as a democracy, it was a constitutional republic

youngdan wrote:

If ye want to argue that the Jews were better off without firearms then ye should ask a survivor of the camps his opinion. This idea of going meekly to your death is not my cup of tea though. 6 million died without as much as a squeel. If you two girls were there ye would be in the oven like a thanksgiven turkey as well

An army can not win against a guerilla army when resistance is put up. The Afghans beat the Soviets and the Viet Cong beat the Americans but ye conveniently forgot that. Beat the French as well.

I have no hope for democracy as they have never worked in the long term. Ireland at the moment is always the final result. Everyone wanting something for nothing

The US was not set up as a democracy, it was a constitutional republic

Would you like to clarify the differences between the two?

Well one difference is the fact that most people think that Obama has been elected President. This election takes place on Dec 15th when the electoral college meets.

The election on Nov 4th was a plebisite so that the electors in each individual state would get an indication on who they should vote for. They are free to vote for anyone they please. Normally they will vote as their state wished them to vote but the idea of having them there is the expectation that should the plebs pick a fool then they could pick a wise man.

These are real people and this article gives you the gist of it

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10501430

In each state they come together and vote.

The people who think Obama is not a citizen are trying to get the electors not to vote for Obama

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/11/26/a-last-electoral-hurdle-for-obama/

In 2000 people wanted electors not to vote for Bush

Electors who vote who they themselves want are called Faithless Electors and there was 1 in 2000. It used to happen all the time

http://www.fairvote.org/e_college/faithless.htm

So now we need more than just well-armed individuals, we need guerilla training and identification as an army. A bucketload of assistance would probably help too, as the Afghans and the Viet Cong found. Widespread popular support would be an essential; I wonder how much support the Jews would have had if the locals knew they were plugging German troops?

You are going from bad to worse. All the Jews needed was a pistol when the gestapo came to the door. Do you think a tank came to each house. You are worried about offending the locals while 6 million are slaughted. Do you really believe the Jews were better off unarmed.

This is all what-iffery of course, but I think it would have made no difference to their security; it wouldn't take long for the Gestapo (or more likely the military) to twig on and actually send a tank.

I think it might have isolated them from what public sympathy there was (condemning plenty more to death) and helped the Nazis justify their actions. If the Jews took a pro-active view to guns and their security then I'm guessing very few would have made it alive out of the arrests. How many survived the concentration camps? Schindler's Jews would all be dead, but they're not a great example.

So net result in this little mind-game: an awful lot more Jews dead in return for a few dead German troops. And less of the sympathy that saved so many of them and helped them for years after the Holocaust.

How many did survive. 6 million got killed and for sure the only thing that saved the remainder was the Germans ran out of time. The Germans intended to kill them all. For the Jews no outcome could have been worse than what happened. They did not nrrd sympathy, then needed a gun.

I heard on the radio today a bit about some man and his 13 year old daughter that was killed in Mumbai. I assume he was American but the host said that the man must have died cursing those dumb indians that prevented him from having a gun to save his child's life.

God forbid but if you were faced with a gunman breaking in the door to kill your kid would you want to have a firearm

None would have survived is my point. And sympathy saved thousands, guns would only have ensured a more sure death.

Unless the host was with the man in India wehen he died I think he's in no better position to guess the dead man's last thoughts than I am. Dead people are great like that because thay can't actually contradict the words some liar has said. How many dead soldiers thought it was their greatest honour to die for their country? All of them we're supposed to believe. I hope you get my point.

If a gunman broke through my door odds are that I'd die, gun or not. Element of surprise and all that. I'd be cursing the system that allowed a gunman to acquire a gun. Prevention rather than cure; I think you're cure is worse than the disease.

God Help You.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the killers already have guns, before that they had swords and before that they had clubs.

Well by that logic you may as well legalise murder, seeing as you always going to have that in some manner or other. Having a club or a sword doesn't help my chances, not nearly as much as an effective police system.

I have actually been shot, by some Christian fruit cakes as it would happen. In my case i would have needed to be quick of the mark, shot on approach of perceived threat for to have had any chance. You can have all sorts of grand ideas of taking on SS but in reality it happens when you don't expect and is on you very quickly. Firstly you probably won't believe what you are confronted with. You instantly go into shock. Levels of adrenalin go up, and it is all very unreal, and yes things like I should have posted those letters does go through your mind. You are all very unprepared and because of that you will be a lot slower and less decisive than you need to be, to be effective. If I had been armed I doubt if I would have realised the danger soon enough. The last thing you expect is someone to walk in and start shooting.

Thoughts of defending Squire Hall against the Army. I would booby trap the place and leave pronto. Can never understand why LSD isn't used to disorient troops? Let's see fun with electricity, petrol & sugar, Sodium hydroxide, compressors, nail guns, and the old faithfuls like spikes in the pit and cross bows operated by string. Must remember to advise the cleaner to take some time off.

If you don't know they are coming then you are at a disadvantage. However the Jews knew the gestapo were coming and should have acted. Taking rough figures it would be the same as 400000 Irish getting brought away and stuck in an oven. I could use the travelers but they would be too ready to resist. Say 400000 Green Party voters were to be baked. Would they take 905's approach I wonder.