So what's it like to be a woman?

youngdan wrote:

Only a woman could say that a man thinks like a woman.

Only a man could say that only a woman could say that a man thinks like a woman.

Quote :

is the reason that only a complete fool would discuss his past sexual history. Unless of course he only had 15 or 20 notches on the old Jolly Roger.
But now the tables are being reversed with ladies on the hunt for mickie. I have read reports of young men being intimidated by these aggressive approachs. After all they would not be skilled swordsmen.

Young women really haven't a clue, do they youngdan? But then, the Greater Notched Swordsman is not a prize every woman is confident enough hunting for... For the benefit of both parties, no doubt you could advise.

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The result of this unsavory development is that some sportsmen are relying more on alcohol to level the field.

Quote of the week already and it's only Monday.

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This leads to a dulling of the blade let us say so to counter this they have taken to consuming large doses of viagra. One well known effect of viagra is a diminishing of your eyesight. So the appealing but aggressive ladies are ignored and the less appealing reap the benefit. Everyone is happy

A young lady, up until recently at least, would not be looking for a man with excess experience I am sure. Of course they would not settle for a man with zero experience either because at the back of their minds would be the nagging thought that they were picked out of deperation. So everyone pretends that the man would have say 2 notchs and he knew enough to know that there was nothing out there that could offer him anything that his lovely bride could not give him. Of course she would be his SOULMATE so the physical part is secondary should it prove not up to scratch by the lady.

All this as I said seems to be changing. Women now are running up horrible figures of comquests. Horrible I tell ya. I was read in Coolack that a lot of ladies had a clam-idea whatever that is

IT WILL NOT STAND I TELL YA.

which is where the viagra comes in

Youngdan, you are wasted on matters purely economic.

unaligned wrote:

Youngdan, you are wasted on matters purely economic.

No, he's just wasted... today.

riadach wrote:

Why did I think soubresauts was a girl?

It's my dainty writing style, isn't it?

Actually, I had the good fortune to run into some accomplished women writers a long time ago, and I did listen carefully to them.

soubresauts wrote:

unaligned wrote:

Youngdan, you are wasted on matters purely economic.

No, he's just wasted... today.

riadach wrote:

Why did I think soubresauts was a girl?

It's my dainty writing style, isn't it?

Actually, I had the good fortune to run into some accomplished women writers a long time ago, and I did listen carefully to them.

I think it's the avatar, actually. Also, I thought I remembered you confirming that you were female shortly after joining here.

arnaudherve wrote:

One of the things that make me suspicious about
discussions on women on Internet forums is that "women" are always
understood as a coherent category. But social differences between women
are seldom evoked.

Here we hear many women interviewed on the
radio, who produce a typical women emancipation discourse, like "I
wanted to do that so I did it", or "you just have to want it", "I
fought for realizing this", etc. That includes travelling, writing a
book, setting up a business...

But back at home I hear "my"
women talking about those interviews, saying they feel guilty at first
not to be able to achieve the same wonderful results, but that after
reflection they realize that those interviewed are always upper middle
case women, and that they only "had the nerve" to do things because
they had the money to do things.

Taking a full year for instance
to travel in India and write a wonderful photographs book is not only
"willpower", it's totally unrealistic for women who need to work for
the next month's income.

Furthermore, upper middle class women
don't live in a world of women only. They have fathers, husbands, sons,
friends... who help them find a super job, a publisher, contacts abroad
and such whenever necessary. So they never have to say "I had to wait
for six months unemployed before I could do it", or "I didn't have a
car to go to this interesting meeting". So I call that the
"emancipation of women with important men around". This is true in the
business world, in the artistic world...

Furthermore, women who
achieve a great carreer do so by hiring other women to care about the
children and the household, so that for those lower classes women it
becomes clearly impossible to achieve any bright carreer. There is a
systemic class divide here.

Recently I heard a woman, running
her own paramedical small business but daughter of a very rich family
(with real estate and such), who regularly tells her female clients "Oh
but children must be autonomous as soon as possible and I would never
stand my son staying at home at his age". But when you think a bit you
realize she actually PAYS a flat for her son who's making studies
abroad. That way she can be very affirmative about "you must be more
energetic than that".

The benefits of having contacts aren't unknown for men too. It's not called the Old Girls' Club, after all.

TheBear wrote:

soubresauts wrote:

unaligned wrote:

Youngdan, you are wasted on matters purely economic.

No, he's just wasted... today.

riadach wrote:

Why did I think soubresauts was a girl?

It's my dainty writing style, isn't it?

Actually, I had the good fortune to run into some accomplished women writers a long time ago, and I did listen carefully to them.

I think it's the avatar, actually. Also, I thought I remembered you confirming that you were female shortly after joining here.

arnaudherve wrote:

One of the things that make me suspicious about
discussions on women on Internet forums is that "women" are always
understood as a coherent category. But social differences between women
are seldom evoked.

Here we hear many women interviewed on the
radio, who produce a typical women emancipation discourse, like "I
wanted to do that so I did it", or "you just have to want it", "I
fought for realizing this", etc. That includes travelling, writing a
book, setting up a business...

But back at home I hear "my"
women talking about those interviews, saying they feel guilty at first
not to be able to achieve the same wonderful results, but that after
reflection they realize that those interviewed are always upper middle
case women, and that they only "had the nerve" to do things because
they had the money to do things.

Taking a full year for instance
to travel in India and write a wonderful photographs book is not only
"willpower", it's totally unrealistic for women who need to work for
the next month's income.

Furthermore, upper middle class women
don't live in a world of women only. They have fathers, husbands, sons,
friends... who help them find a super job, a publisher, contacts abroad
and such whenever necessary. So they never have to say "I had to wait
for six months unemployed before I could do it", or "I didn't have a
car to go to this interesting meeting". So I call that the
"emancipation of women with important men around". This is true in the
business world, in the artistic world...

Furthermore, women who
achieve a great carreer do so by hiring other women to care about the
children and the household, so that for those lower classes women it
becomes clearly impossible to achieve any bright carreer. There is a
systemic class divide here.

Recently I heard a woman, running
her own paramedical small business but daughter of a very rich family
(with real estate and such), who regularly tells her female clients "Oh
but children must be autonomous as soon as possible and I would never
stand my son staying at home at his age". But when you think a bit you
realize she actually PAYS a flat for her son who's making studies
abroad. That way she can be very affirmative about "you must be more
energetic than that".

The benefits of having contacts aren't unknown for men too. It's not called the Old Girls' Club, after all.

I think arnaudherve might have been badly bitten on the ankle by a rich woman.

TheBear wrote:

I think it's the avatar, actually. Also, I thought I remembered you confirming that you were female shortly after joining here.

No siree. You're misremembering my "member" remark; see here.

Well we're not any closer to answering the question, are we? I don't think it's possible to get any overarching, all-embracing definition of what it feels like to be a woman, any more than we could expect the same of a man; we're all too individual for that, and while we might fit the stereotypes and the science in some respects, we don't in others.

The key word in the question for me is 'being' and that's what makes womanhood, for me, both difficult and wonderful.

I quoted a poem above by Maya Angelou because I think it's a wonderful expression of what it is to be a woman, to be in a woman's body, to be responded to and engaged with on the basis of that being, to live in the world and relate to others on the basis of that being. I'm not beautiful in any of the traditional senses but I do feel a certain beauty in being created the way that I am, in a woman's body. It's impossible to live as a woman and not be conscious every hour of every day of how we are physically put together and how that is a major and potentially wonderful influence on how we be and are met in the world.

Everything we say and do is informed by our sexuality and our gender - and thousands of years of conditioning, conforming and contradicting.

I think many of the characteristics of women mentioned above cross the gender barrier but are perhaps experienced differently on both sides of it. For example, arnaudherve was pretty scathing of ambitious women - and women are often equally scathing but for different reasons. This happens of course when you're 'being' as a person is confused or interpreted solely in the light of your 'being' as a woman.

I don't see class as being a great determining factor as you do in the example you gave, arnaudherve. I've been surrounded by very strong women - my grandmothers were amazing, admirable women - one of them was the original Kate P whose name I've stolen. But they were strong within circumstances that gave them very little individual freedom. My paternal grandmother was widowed twice in ten years and had five young childdren to care for.I feel very lucky to have been born into a time without the social restraints that they endured. Maybe the women you describe are more vocal, but it doesn't mean they are any more ambitious or successful - maybe it's just that their success is easily measurable on a male scale. Give me the original Kate P with her measling shins, her gentle defiance in the face of rural poverty and her absolute dignity at all times above any of the women you describe as prescribed role models.

'Being' a woman only makes sense socially, in the context of not being a man, and because the norms are still set by men - as arnaud and youngdan have shown in their responses to how women they know decide to 'be' in life, women will come in for all kinds of criticism because as people and women they want to 'be' like men. That's the hard part.


I remember reading a qoute somewhere from Alice Walker who said that women shouldn't feel so proud of those moments that they steal for themselves from looking after and caring for others. It's almost an admission that having a sense of self is something that is only deserving of a stolen, surreptitious moment to achieve whatever goal is important to you - even if that's as apparently trivial as having your hair done or as apparently meaningful as writing a novel while the kids are in bed.

soubresauts wrote:

TheBear wrote:

I think it's the avatar, actually. Also, I thought I remembered you confirming that you were female shortly after joining here.

No siree. You're misremembering my "member" remark; see here.

I remember this Soubresaut - your Bjork avatar had me confused too for a while.

Quote :

I remember reading a qoute somewhere from Alice Walker who said that women shouldn't feel so proud of those moments that they steal for themselves from looking after and caring for others.

How irritating it is when an Irishwoman dies in a car crash and she is referred to as a "mother of three small children", as if her death would otherwise not matter.

soubresauts wrote:

TheBear wrote:

I think it's the avatar, actually. Also, I thought I remembered you confirming that you were female shortly after joining here.

No siree. You're misremembering my "member" remark; see here.

Actually, from reading that, I think I may have read the other posters' comments and taken that as a confirmation, and then never saw your response. Ah well, it's all been clarified now.

cactus flower wrote:

Quote :

I remember reading a qoute somewhere from Alice Walker who said that women shouldn't feel so proud of those moments that they steal for themselves from looking after and caring for others.

How irritating it is when an Irishwoman dies in a car crash and she is referred to as a "mother of three small children", as if her death would otherwise not matter.

That's just RTE wanting to make something already depressing much, much worse. Having said that if it was "Marketing Director at DOORMARKET DIRECT was killed in a car crash I think half the country would be uncomfortably supressing a smile. 

Kate P wrote:

It's amazing.

I'll second that.

I do like the woman folk. They are odd and strange and I don't understand them but they are facinating all the same. 

I read a different meaning into when say RTE, says she was the mother of 3 children. They are pointing out these 3 victims and do they not say the same for a male fatality.

youngdan wrote:

I read a different meaning into when say RTE, says she was the mother of 3 children. They are pointing out these 3 victims and do they not say the same for a male fatality.

Well, I would think that it is demeaning to the man (he's not important to the children?) as well as to the woman (she's only important as a mother).

I'd say that the 'aw' factor is solely related to the children; the parents are immaterial. Jard done-by kiddies and puppies make good copy, sadly. People buy that stuff.

cactus flower wrote:

youngdan wrote:

I read a different meaning into when say RTE, says she was the mother of 3 children. They are pointing out these 3 victims and do they not say the same for a male fatality.

Well, I would think that it is demeaning to the man (he's not important to the children?) as well as to the woman (she's only important as a mother).

I find it worse when someone dies and someone invariably says 'and she was so beautiful too'. Are beautiful people meant to be immortal, or is it just ok when ugly people die?

riadach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

youngdan wrote:

I read a different meaning into when say RTE, says she was the mother of 3 children. They are pointing out these 3 victims and do they not say the same for a male fatality.

Well, I would think that it is demeaning to the man (he's not important to the children?) as well as to the woman (she's only important as a mother).

I find it worse when someone dies and someone invariably says 'and she was so beautiful too'. Are beautiful people meant to be immortal, or is it just ok when ugly people die?

I also hate the hypocrisy when an utter bastard dies and everyone insists on saying how wonderful he was.

cactus flower wrote:

riadach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

youngdan wrote:

I read a different meaning into when say RTE, says she was the mother of 3 children. They are pointing out these 3 victims and do they not say the same for a male fatality.

Well, I would think that it is demeaning to the man (he's not important to the children?) as well as to the woman (she's only important as a mother).

I find it worse when someone dies and someone invariably says 'and she was so beautiful too'. Are beautiful people meant to be immortal, or is it just ok when ugly people die?

I also hate the hypocrisy when an utter bastard dies and everyone insists on saying how wonderful he was.

One of the all time great phrases in Irish, which I'm sure most people on this site will recognise fits the bill here:

Más maith leat moladh, faigh bás, más maith leat cáineadh, pós!

If you want praise, die, if you want criticism, marry!

This has been bothering me, are women really as bloated-feeling as the ads suggest?

905 wrote:

This has been bothering me, are women really as bloated-feeling as the ads suggest?

Yeah how the feck did we ever manage to stay alive before without pumping all these extra bacteria into our lower intestines? - Tho how the bacteria manage to stay alive going thru the stomach acids beats the feck out of me - now if we were to take this yogurt stuff as a suppository.................ok actually Im going to stop that train of thought right there!

Strengthen your bodies natural defenses - yeah right -

beat that bloated feeling? - well eat more cellulose for gods sake - and it will be better for you than all fructosed riven dairy crap anyway.

rant over - Woman are grand - really ok beings - except that awful talent they have for ripping your guts out and feeding it to the crows when they tell you they just want to be friends!

905 wrote:

This has been bothering me, are women really as bloated-feeling as the ads suggest?

My personal best post so far of this thread 905

Edo wrote:

rant over - Woman are grand - really ok beings - except that awful talent they have for ripping your guts out and feeding it to the crows when they tell you they just want to be friends!

Amen, brother!