According to a report in today's Irish Examiner - which sadly is not available on their online version for some reason - Bertie Ahern has threatened to walk out of the tribunal if he decides that its questions to him are outside its remit.

The latest upset relates to a 40K loan that Ahern gave to Larkin in recent months so that she could repay money to the Fianna Fail party. The Irish Times gives some background here:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/0604/1212513052177.html

"She did not know how much the house Mr Ahern moved into in 1995 cost, thought she viewed and selected it."

Women were easier to handle back then though I'd say they are still choosing houses for their partners

It should liven things up if Ahern does walk out or treats the Tribunal to a bit of the rhetoric he was dishing out after they made Grainne Carruth break down in tears. More likely though that he will just let them get on with it in the hope that they can wrap it up.

Miriam Lord's Tribunal Sketch column, as ever, is very good - p.7

"One day, 'out of the blue', the late Gerry Brennan, a solicitor and one of Bertie's friends and supporters, rang her up and said the St Luke's Committee wanted to give her a loan for the aunties.
'I don't remember the date, but I remember being relieved,' she recalled. All this was done by the 'St Luke's Committee' under the nose of their guiding light and shining star, Bertie Ahern. But he hadn't a clue about it.
At the time, her then life-partner had over £50,000 burning a hole in his safe. Did she not think of asking him for a loan? It never occurred to Celia during all the times they discussed her poor aunties' situation.
But he was a tower of strength to her all the same. He discussed with her the various possibilities open to the aged ladies - public authority housing, rent subsidies, that sort of thing. It never occurred to him to mention that he was in a position to help her out. It would never have occurred to Bertie - he was more into the receiving end of funds, than the giving. Naturally, he was delighted for her when she told him the good news, after the event.
In the area of housing, Celia was just as lucky as him."

Does anyone seriously believe Ahern or Larkin?

It's hard to know what went on. A lot of the accusations made in no way fit the facts, and some of the stuff posted on p.ie is beyond ridiculous. I would not be surprised if Bertie and Celia had a relationship where she was not privy to his financial affairs and he would keep money for his children rather than loaning it to her. It would hardly be unusual in a situation where somebody is separated with children. On the other hand, there have been too many surprises to have full confidence and at the very least he did engage in a bit of real politik hypocrisy and let things happen which have damaged his party.

I thought Labour and FG were right to force the issue while Ahern was holding office, but I think the best thing now is to wait for the whole thing to finish up.

Overall Berties Tribunal issues are way too complicated and polarising to have a clear discussion about them. I would not discuss abortion with Youth Defence or Ivana Batchik and I am getting to the same point with discussing Bertie with anyone on the internet .

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

Overall Berties Tribunal issues are way too complicated and polarising to have a clear discussion about them. I would not discuss abortion with Youth Defence of Ivana Batchik and I am getting to the same point with discussing Bertie with anyone on the internet .

We could discuss it since we're virtually the only ones here on the Machine Nation!

Yes, things are quiet. The only thing is if we discuss it we might be strung up later by our digital acquaintances.

I think I am going to have to leave you to it. I have a stinker of a document to finalise. Chin up!

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

Yes, things are quiet. The only thing is if we discuss it we might be strung up later by our digital acquaintances.

I think I am going to have to leave you to it. I have a stinker of a document to finalise. Chin up!

Yeah, is there a strike on for which we didn't get the PM? It's fierce quiet.

Right, I'll just go play by myself in the chat box and ruminate over matters fulminative.

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

Yes, things are quiet. The only thing is if we discuss it we might be strung up later by our digital acquaintances.

What do you mean? Is there a problem about discussing this? It's in all the national papers.

Excerpt from today's Irish Examiner:

Quote :

Laughter from the public gallery greeted Mr Ahern’s evidence that sterling lodgments to Irish Permanent accounts in 1994 totalling £15,450 were partly due to a “few good” gambling wins on the horses. He claimed they, along with around £13,000 from now deceased Manchester businessman Tim Kilroe, had made up the deposits which he said he could not recall being made.

Mr Ahern added he had scooped £8,000 from “one or two successful bets” in 1996 which he put into the same Irish Permanent accounts for his daughters. He acknowledged he was wrong to initially claim no sterling had been lodged in the accounts.

Mr Ahern’s temper flared as he said he was “sore” at the way Ms Carruth had been treated by senior counsel Des O’Neill. Mr Ahern said in an interview after her ordeal he would have tried to prevent the situation if the tribunal “had bothered” to inform him they had proof the lodgments were sterling.

However, it was revealed Mr Ahern had been given those details 11 days before her testimony. Mr Ahern said he had not replied to the tribunal correspondence before her appearance as he had been busy with his duties as taoiseach.

The full astounding article here

I think Zhou might be referring to his life on p.ie where he put up a fierce online battle with other posters while discussing Tribunal stuff. Would that be right Zhou? Or something like that.

I certainly don't see why ye can't discuss it if it's all over the newspapers and everywhere else...

I just found it hilarious that Ahern said he won some of the STG on the horses yesterday... feckin hell, after all the rumours earlier it was ... true.

Auditor #9 wrote:

I just found it hilarious that Ahern said he won some of the STG on the horses yesterday... feckin hell, after all the rumours earlier it was ... true.

Isn't it gas.

It reminds me of 'the dog ate it' excuse at school in the old days.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

I just found it hilarious that Ahern said he won some of the STG on the horses yesterday... feckin hell, after all the rumours earlier it was ... true.

Isn't it gas.

It reminds me of 'the dog ate it' excuse at school in the old days.

cactus flower wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

I just found it hilarious that Ahern said he won some of the STG on the horses yesterday... feckin hell, after all the rumours earlier it was ... true.

Isn't it gas.

It reminds me of 'the dog ate it' excuse at school in the old days.

I'd say you'd remember the name of a horse that came in at 7-1 and got you £7,000.00...

It's not because there might be legal issues that I don't want to discuss it. It is because people are partisan on the issue and can't stick to any one fact. Ultimately it is just shouting and that doesn't float my boat. BTW - I don't pretend to know things which cannot be known and I have always agreed that Ahern had questions to answer. Any "defence" merely consisted of trying to get people to stick to the facts and questioning the Tribunal's methodology.

A couple of entertaining excepts from yesterday:


Des O’Neill: I'm sure we have other things, all of us, other than the Tribunal, Mr. Ahern.

Bertie: These days I don't.

Des O’Neill: You don't. Okay.

Bertie: I think about you all day and every night.

...



Des O'Neill: "........I take it the "they" there is the Tribunal rather than anybody else, isn't that right?"

Bertie: Yourself, I'd say I was thinking of.

Des O’Neill: I'm not the plural, I'm singular, I'm afraid.

Bertie: When I think of the Tribunal I always think of you.

and also to SeathrúnCeitinn's pants.
Can we organise a bus trip to the Castle? I went when Gogarty gave evidence: I put no pass on all the snobs who sneered at us sans cullottes: it was the best repayment I've ever had, hour for hour, of all the tax I have paid since I started work.

Tilt your head sideways and you can see Bertie

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:

Ahern's contradictions on Prime Time NOW!

Miriam Lord did a smashing job on it in the IT.
I'm watching Dermot Somers walking with the Tuareg on TG4 and not about to turn over, so I'm relying on yourselves to keep me posted.

I wish Michael Clifford would spit the brick out and stop bein diplomatic.....

cactus flower wrote:

Miriam Lord did a smashing job on it in the IT.
I'm watching Dermot Somers walking with the Tuareg on TG4 and not about to turn over, so I'm relying on yourselves to keep me posted.

Why are they so keen on buying salt ?

Tuareg Gallery

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Miriam Lord did a smashing job on it in the IT.
I'm watching Dermot Somers walking with the Tuareg on TG4 and not about to turn over, so I'm relying on yourselves to keep me posted.

Why are they so keen on buying salt ?

Perhaps the answer is in the book called "Salt" that Auditor #9 has put up for the book club. In our house the guess is food preservation and rehydration.

Ahern is surely a national disgrace - it's mortifying to hear his ducking and weaving over this issue - has he no sensible adivsers to hand? What and who is behind all of this that he has felt compelled to make such a complete fool of himself in his testimony to the tribunal:

Another excruciating day of enquiry during which Ahern tries to pretend that it is somehow a crime for the tribunal to ask him reasonable questions about where he got his income from:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0606/breaking61.htm

Possibly the most nauseating aspect of Ahern's recent testimony has been his attempt to invert the truth of what happened to Carruth. She went into battle with some apparent intention of protecting Ahern but ended up protecting herself when it was pointed out to her that lying would not be in her best interests - her subsequent, truthful testimony exposing Ahern's 'inconsistency'. In the view of any decent person it seems obvious that she was badly used by the Ahern camp. Nevertheless Ahern is now trying to suggest that it was not his possible use and abuse of Carruth that was ugly but the tribunal's merely for requiring her to tell the truth and for pointing out to her the consequences of not doing so!!! Who was bullying and using who?

Her name is Carruth.