The Greatest Con of All Time

The quesion is has Russia played the Western Power Elites for suckers. Russia now holds all the aces while the West can only bluff on a very weak hand

For the greater part of the 20th century The Soviet Union was presented as a mortal danger to the United States and Western Europe. It was an easy presentation to make as it was probably the most murderous regime ever to it's own people. Stalin was only superceded in his killing in this regard by Mao and percentage wise by Pol Pot. It is my contention that communism was nurtured at birth and fed through adulthood and is now about to turn on it's feeders.
This monster could have been slain many times but each time a victory was close it was decided to let this reptile live. We can begin at the beginning. The trip of Lenin back to Russia is well known and the motives of all are easily explained. However the trip made by Trotsky deserves close study. When the February 1917 revolution occured he was in New York City and left for Russia on March 27. The British intercepted him in Halifax, Nova Scottia and put him in prison. On the face of things it is hard to know why the British would not want to keep him in prison as the war effort would be greatly hindered by the Russians withdrawing from the fight. What is known is that Trotsky was travelling on an American passport with entry permits for Russia. He was carrying the very large sum of 10000 dollars. After a month word came from the British Embassy in Washington that Trotshy was to be allowed continue his journey. His passport and release could only have been authorised at a high level.
Toward the end of the 2nd World War some decisions were made that defies logic. On the field of battle the most successfull warrior was General Patton. He clearly saw the danger posed by the Russians. He was very much against the decision to allow the Russians to takr Berlin but he was overruled. Despite the fact that the entire war was fought to protect Poland it was handed over to Soviet control despite the fact that the Soviets had deliberately allowed the Germans to brutally suppress the Warsaw rising. All civilians who fell within the grasp of the Soviet troops were ravished in the extreme. In their advance West the Soviets liberated 25000 American prisoners and moved them East. It is estimated that 20000 of these POWs were abandoned to the Soviets never to return home


http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/douglass/2002/1218.html


Furthermore the Soviet prisoners were forced back to certain death in Operation Keelhaul.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Keelhaulis estimated that 2 million were sent to their doom. Even Sweden took part

* Google Video Link *

Patton wished to continue the war and destroy communism and facism. He believed this to be easily done as the Russians were a scavaging army whereas the US had a fully provisioned army backed by a large industrial base. Had he known about the bomb then even more weight would be added to his argument. Not only was Poland not freed but all Eastern Europe has allowed to fall to the communists.
The next struggle took place in the far East. General Chiang Kai shek was in a long war against Mao. He had many disadvantages. He had to fight the Japanese while Mao ignored them. His son was held hostage by Stalin and some of his top generals were communist moles. However he eventually got the upper-hand and cornered Mao in Manchuria. At this crucial point General Marshall arrived and convinced him to have a truce This respite enabled Mao to regroup and go on to victory. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,934373,00.html?promoid=googlep
The next deliberate defeat took place in Korea. After the Chinese entered the war the US suffered terribly but McArthur eventually pushed them back but when he wanted to bomb the bases in China he was relieved of duty. This pattern of bombed everywhere but the enemy was repeated in Vietnam. Over 7 million tons of bombs which was over 3 times the amount of WW2 were dropped to little avail.
The Soviet Union was nurtured for it's entire existance by credits from the West and grain shipments to keep it fed. The money saved by the Soviets was used to build a huge military machine. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Agriculture/EM128.cfm These actions can only be explained if policy makers in the West did not fear The Soviet Union and were quite happy to profit greatly and have huge military spending. The Russians were quite happy with this situation as they were growing in strenght. The Soviets overplayed their hand by invading Afghanistan. This changed the attitude of the West and Reagan began a military build-up. The Soviets knew that their economy could not compete and neither could their technology. Things got particularly bleak for them after the US began to position Pershing missiles in Europe which gave the West a 1st strike ability with a few minutes warning.

In 1984 a KGB officer who had defected in the 60s by the name of Anatily Golitsyn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoliy_Golitsyn wrote a very interesting book called New Lies for Old www.amazon.com/New-Lies-Old-Anatoliy-Golitsyn/dp/0945001134 In it he lays out a plan where the Soviets deceive the West into thinking that the leopard was changing it's spots. It accurately predicted the fall of the Wall, Perestroika and Glastnot at a time when such events were unthinkable. This deception would lead the West to disarm their nuclear arsenal and he was right.
The West has been deceived into thinking that they deal with Russia as if it were a trading partner. They continued to coalesc the West into what they see as a single unit governed by them as a high powered UN. All the while Russia went along with the 2 Iraq wars even though it would appear that Saddam being toppled was very disadvantagious to them. However the rise in oil and commodity prices have made them rich beyond their dreams. While they allowed their conventional forces to diminish the continued to build modern topal icbm nuclear missiles and now their bombers are back in the skys over the British coast and the Atlantic.
We now reach what I believe to be the most important event. Last Summer it looked as if the US was about to strike Iran and had 3 carriers in the area. A high level delagation went to Putin to tell him what was expected of him but it appears that Putin sent them packing. http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070713/68933469.html Those at the meeting were Kissinger, George Schultz, Sam Nunn and ex Treasury Secretary Rubin. The only Western media to carry this was The Gaurdian and it has since been removed from it's web site but I read it on first hearing it. The attack did not happen at that time.
It now appears that the West is economically broke and it's military is ground down after 6 years of war. If the US attacks Iran then even with the best outcome it's munitions will be expended. The worst outcome could well be huge naval and airforce losses. The army in Iraq would then be unable to receive supplies and it would be totally wiped out. The economic ramifications of such a defeat would destroy the US tatally. Russia would control the energy needs of Europe and the new Iron Curtain would extend to the Aran Islands. Europe would have neither the way or thw will to resist.
The greatest con of all time would have worked.

The other point of view youngdan would be that without the USSR's military capacity the US would have rolled over and bombed or occupied even more of the planet than they have.

The point I am making is that now the Russians have decided that they are strong enough to prevent the US from rolling. They milked the West for all it was worth but the meeting last Summer signaled a change. Prior to that meeting the West assumed that they could just instruct Putin on what was expected of him. To drive reality home to the West the open displays of military muscle have become commonplace culminating last week when they rolled out the modern icbms. Many in the West thought these weapons were to be dismantled but last week they were shinning.

With the increase in arms spending from the US under Bush and with withdrawal of the US from the ABM Treaty, Putin is showing sense.

If Iraq had had WMDs would the US have invaded?

Putin hs shown great sense. He has outwitted the West for 70 years and it is only plain to be seen from last Summer. They have deceived the West into disarming their nuclear forces. The military is less than half the size it was when Clinton took control

youngdan wrote:

Putin hs shown great sense. He has outwitted the West for 70 years and it is only plain to be seen from last Summer. They have deceived the West into disarming their nuclear forces. The military is less than half the size it was when Clinton took control

Where are you getting your figures from youngdan?

The US spends as much as the rest of the world put together on arms. A lot of the rest of the arms in the world are US exports foisted onto 'friendly' countries. In any case, it is China more than Russia that seems to be seriously gearing up. Russia is just nervous of losing oil resources and feeling the pressure from US build up around eastern europe, the Med and the near east.

Link to Wikipedia

youngdan wrote:

Putin hs shown great sense. He has outwitted the West for 70 years

Putin is 56.

It does not surprise me that The US spends a dollar amount equal to half the global total but that like many others is a deceptive stat. They are paying many times more than other countries are for the exact same thing. To take an extreme example North Korea has a million man army but the dollar cost is most likely very low. The US military is only a shadow of what it was in the 80s. The navy had 600 ships and is now is in the 200 and something range. There are 1.4 million on active duty whereas in the 80s it was 2.2 million http://www.dod.mil/execsec/adr95/budget_5.html
Russia has nothing to fear as it is dominant in Nukes which is the only thing that matters.

seinfeld wrote:

youngdan wrote:

Putin hs shown great sense. He has outwitted the West for 70 years

Putin is 56.

Ha! They have you fooled good and proper.

Maybe when the EU/USSR/Mars is running the world they'll provide you with proper insight.

Have you hired Seinfeld as an adviser. It looks like the EU will be ronning you soon

hmmm. Yes, Putin is a rather smart guy, no wonder the Russians are all so fond of him (sadly, after what happened to their economy in the 90s, I'd be tempted to believe those 80% approval ratings!)

I'm not so worried he'd actually try to use force..... no need. He has us all over an (oil) barrel anyway. Probably including the US.

While we are talking US national security though, why, youngdan, are you not more worried about the Middle Eastern oil sheikhs buying up large chunks of US strategic infrastructure.....the banking industry, for example?? The Russians did not perpetrate 911, nor is it the extreme elements of the Eastern Orthodox church that have been heard to describe the US as "the Great Satan"

expat girl wrote:

I'm not so worried he'd actually try to use force..... no need. He has us all over an (oil) barrel anyway. Probably including the US.

Not really. Russian oil output is relatively insignificant.



By the by, this cartogram is taken from libertas.org, who for some reason have an Energy policy.

Its also interesting that we actually figure on this cartogram.

The cartogram seems to me to be impossible to make sense of at this scale. Canada has one of the largest resources (yes, the US does have a plan to invade Canada) - that would hardly be apparent from this diagram.

cactus flower wrote:

The cartogram seems to me to be impossible to make sense of at this scale. Canada has one of the largest resources (yes, the US does have a plan to invade Canada) - that would hardly be apparent from this diagram.

I think that Libertas map refers to the known reserves of easily accessible crude only CF.

Alberta Tar sands contain the twice the reserves of Saudi Arabia - but its exploitation is a lot more costly.

And besides - you are not going to get much extra military funding out of Congress if you say you are going up against Dudley Dooright and the Mounties in order to secure your energy needs for the future.

Its far sexier to mention the Saracens ,Iranians,Nuclear powered Russians and Mad Latin American dictators when you are trying to milk the congressional coffers - which I presume is the objective of the map.

Quote :

For the greater part of the 20th century The Soviet Union was presented as a mortal danger to the United States and Western Europe. It was an easy presentation to make as it was probably the most murderous regime ever to it's own people. Stalin was only superceded in his killing in this regard by Mao and percentage wise by Pol Pot.

The truth about the United States? The number of people it has killed, countries it has invaded/destabilised on behalf of the corporate giants of its most infleuntial industries -esp oil? Beginning with the routing of millions of its indiginous population and in places like Mexico and California, on to its murderous miliatry interventions in South America, the true history of the United States has yet to be written in full.

As to playing the US as a patsie, it's the US itself that has torn up the nuclear non proliferation treaty, in effect, by deploying nuclear weapons in Checkoslovakia and other places. Russia has had no choice but to respond to that provocation - although the western media is almost totally complicity in inverting the truth of what is happenning. Face it, the rest of the world has had more than enough of the US raping and pillaging other countries for their resources. It's hardly surprising if some of those who are most threatened are determined not to take it lying down. Particularly since the US is even now attempting to tear up NATO treaties so it will be able to make what it calls 'preventive' strikes. That means the US will get nuke whoever it wants, whenever it wants for whatever reason it wants. This monster really ought to be stopped.

The US has an arsenal of nuclear weaponry sufficient to wipe out the entire world population: 10,000 nuclear warheads I believe. This has cost its citizens trillions of their tax dollars. It's war in Iraq - a naked smash and oil grab, has also cost it trillions of dollars. All of this is being bankrolled by the American people who benefit little in comparison to the oil and arms industry giants behind it all. The US has the nerve to throw a screaming tantrum about the possiblity that Iran might develop just just one nuclear warhead when it is flanked by Israel who, with US aid and aissistance, has developed approximately 250 warheads. And Israel claims it is the Arab countries that are a threat to peace in the region! Despite their illegal invasions and attacks on their neighbours.

American foreign policy is not and never has been benign.

I wonder how many of those EU bureaucrats and flunkies are or were Soviet agents? Welcome to the EuCCP? Though with its regulations and jobs for parasites, it does look like the EU is becoming like the old Soviet Union.

Regards...jmcc

Expat Girl. There is really little concern of the Arabs being a financial danger. No matter how much money they get they will blow it away on arnaments or their own lavish lifestyle. They will be back riding camels eventually. Only the tiny gulf countries have tried to set themselves up for after the oil is gone
As regards Canada there are already plans signed by the 3 leaders to form a EU type bloc called the NAU. Signed in Waco Texas in 2005. http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2008/04/17/02332.html
Aragon. The premise of my story was that the Russians had decieved the West. The West barrelled ahead with it's plan to dominate the world thinking they had nothing to fear from Russia. The Russians gave it more rope to hang itself. Now they have pulled the plug. They have attained the position where they are looked upon as the nice guy and where a first strike would be welcomed by many. That is some position to be in compared to what public perception was in the sixties.
jmcc. That comment is 100 percent true to my thinking even though I did not bring it into my story. We do not know what part Soviet moles played but it appears to be modelled on the Soviet system. A large rubberstamp parliament with zero power and Commssars acting like a Politburo making the decisions.

What I dont understand about the premise of your story Youngdan is how you manage to read so much deviousness into what the Russians are doing. Even if what you say were true (which I don't believe it is), the behaviour of the US leaves the Russians looking like angels in comparison.

The rolling out of 'The Project for the New American Century' is endangering every person on the planet. How can you even begin to blame the Russians, Koreans, the Middle Eastern Countries for trying anticipate how best they can defend themselves in the face of this onslaught?

Devious is their trademark. There are numerous examples of them being very adept in the secret agent and mole field. The beauty is that the Russians have indeed been left looking like Angels. The West swallowed the deception that the Russian military was in tatters because the conventional forses, which are yesterdays game, were let go to ruin. The strategic forces were kept up to date. The propaganda coup is enormous. The West got carried away thinking that they had won the cold war and bankrupted Russia. Now it is the West who are bankrupt and Russia is richer than anyone could have hoped.

youngdan wrote:

Expat Girl. There is really little concern of the Arabs being a financial danger. No matter how much money they get they will blow it away on arnaments or their own lavish lifestyle. They will be back riding camels eventually. Only the tiny gulf countries have tried to set themselves up for after the oil is gone

There is a quote from a prominent sheikh that goes roughly as follows: my father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son is buying a plane, his son will ride a camel

The irony of this is that in what way do you in the US differ from the Middle Easterners in the approach you outline above?? Your military is is vastly overinflated and overextended, you bet the farm on Operation Enduring Cheap Petrol (the Iraq war), which has bombed in spectacular fashion (oil yields are lower than under Saddam, your debts are truly world leading....and have you set yourselves up for when the oil is gone?? I don't think so.... mind you, only some of the European countries are really trying to do this and I would not as yet count ourselves among them)

So the Russians have outwitted you.... well, did y'all listen to your own M. King Hubbert??? Nahhh.... PNAC is based on control of cheap energy sources and is also doomed to fail. To be honest, I hate to see the US suffer too badly... whatever your faults, you have been world leading in supporting research (and I am a scientist)...how about dumping the wars and spending the moolah on alternative energy sources, because everyone's oil and gas will run out eventually, including the Russians... those that can keep the lecky on and the Internet running will be the world leaders when all of this is over.

I don't believe Iraq was invaded for getting cheap oil. Iraq was invaded to keep the oil in the ground and it has been a tremendous success. No more 20 dollar oil. Who wants cheap oil. Oil men are running the show.
Why dump war when there is so much money to be made. Oil men wanting alternative energy is like a turkey looking forward to Christmas.
The Russians have outwitted them and they are sitting pretty. If Iran is attacked in the next month as I expect then Russia will be the most powerfull nation on Earth.

It sounds like we all need oil-free government.

To have an energy sourse outside the grasp of government is the last thing they want. I think local wind and solar in the sunbelt could do this. BTW Cactus who is the chairman of BP, one of the most powerfull men on Earth.

So what is your answer to this youngdan?

Just taking a news article at random I see that this windfarm of 84 turbines generates the needs for almost 200000 homes. So 5 such farms should take care of all the homes in Ireland. All the hydro and other would be surplus. These are big turbines but I would have small turbines serving smaller groups. Each parish could have their own mill. We will see in August when the air car debuts that 90% of transportation could be taken care of. The most important thing in life is to realise that a politician cares as much about the people as a publican cares about livers.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/localnews/Green-boost-for-wind-farm.4045483.jp