Libertas a pan European Project : Read OP Intro Carefully - Mod

snapple drinker wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

What are you people going to do when Ganley flops in the elections and there's a Yes vote in Lisbon part II .

What are ye going to do.

what do you mean by 'you people' ?

You people who obsess about Declan Ganley something chronic. Why why why

I'm not one of you people - I am one of other people who obsess about other things.

NB ganley International is a small company note

Small Company Criteria, prior to 30/01/2004	and since
	1.Turnover less than £2,800,000	£5,600,000
	2.Balance Sheet total less than £1,400,000	£2,800,000
	3.Average Number of employees less than 50,	still 50

Frightened Albanian wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Something johnfás said before below. There's no huge visibility about his campaign unless you're looking at these websites and even then you have to look for something to assess, do you know what I mean ?

Quote :

I was talking to a few non politically minded friends last weekend. I brought up the issue of Declan Ganley... he was a passing memory, as were Libertas... few could remember who he was or what Libertas were - just remember seeing the posters.

Without a major effort I don't think Ganley/Libertas will either sink or save the No Vote and I don't believe he did last time either.

i had aPolish taxi driver and ganley was the first thing he brought up; Irish people are complacent about this threat. they don't know what the real far right will do. ganley's persuasion will come hard and fast with a hugely funded blitz and a new script tailored for the times.
see who he hires? former brit communications guy for Helmand , job description: promote Brits in war; explain setbacks and body bags, report "victorious" drone attacks on compounds.

help Ross kemp make his War promoting stuff for Sky

So Ganley is big in Eastern Europe then is it? What do you all fear he will do anyway ? Turn into Hitler or Mussolini Part II ????

Do you fear there's some war on the horizon? Maybe he's giving his buddies in the FCA some jobs for the boys - often happens.

Did you pay for his accounts ?

he makes his cash from Defence tehse days, he has warrior pals , he seems to revel in it,
I would fear him and his gang getting anywhere near democratic power, it would be disasterous for the planet.

Cowen took a dig at Libertas during the FF ard Fheis yesterday. Ganley got the rejoinder in before close of business I see. Good to see he's on his toes.

Even if he does get some power - what can he do with it ? What do you think he'll do once he gets democratic power ?

snapple drinker wrote:

Cowen took a dig at Libertas during the FF ard Fheis yesterday. Ganley got the rejoinder in before close of business I see. Good to see he's on his toes.

he did not mention Ganley but Ganley saw it as a snide remark. .

Quote :

“I want these changes to be implemented before any referendum vote so
that we can reach a stage where we can finally say that no individual
will be able to distort a campaign through large-scale personal fortunes

that would be the bold Declan alright (but whose fortune did he spend?)

Quote :

"“As we all saw in last year’s referendum, regulation of political
fundraising and spending is capable of being undermined by those who
only pay lip service to transparency,”

clearly Deco

Quote :

"Mr Cowen said: “We are engaged in a lot of reform in this to improve
transparency and accountability and to make sure that everyone is
upfront about what the source of their funding is.

" Libertas catch phrases in bold

Auditor #9 wrote:

Even if he does get some power - what can he do with it ? What do you think he'll do once he gets democratic power ?

Declan already has power, none accrued democratically. I have a natural distrust of any business interests proclaiming a political mandate on my turf, especially one with proven US military interests.

I dunno Audi, Declan would probably push a eurosceptic agenda. I'm open to correction here.

Quote :

"Mr Cowen said: “We are engaged in a lot of reform in this to improve
transparency and accountability and to make sure that everyone is
upfront about what the source of their funding is.

Fianna Fail - transparency and accountability central. Perhaps if they looked more closely at Dublin Central over the years, or at where money donated to the Party had ended up, I might now take them more seriously...

snapple drinker wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Even if he does get some power - what can he do with it ? What do you think he'll do once he gets democratic power ?

Declan already has power, none accrued democratically. I have a natural distrust of any business interests proclaiming a political mandate on my turf, especially one with proven US military interests.

I dunno Audi, Declan would probably push a eurosceptic agenda. I'm open to correction here.

A political mandate on your turf - is that what Ganley represents - a threat to old Ireland and its established turfers ... ? I can see nothing but good to come out of a bit of competition ...

Quote :

All oversight rules, he said, which apply to political parties will “also be applied to groups which campaign to influence elections and referendums”. He did not specifically identify Libertas.

Speaking to journalists, Mr Cowen said: “We are engaged in a lot of reform in this to improve transparency and accountability and to make sure that everyone is upfront about what the source of their funding is.

“Just as political parties should be open to allow Sipo to come in and ensure that all the procedures are complied with and that the law is being complied with, those interest groups or other groups that come forward to influence elections or referenda should have to do the same.”

Libertas has consistently rejected charges from the Yes side about its funding of its campaign against the Lisbon Treaty last year, and insisted that it has complied with all electoral laws.

However, Sipo, chaired by a High Court judge, last November issued a seven-day warning to the organisation to disclose its funding sources, and the terms of a loan granted by Libertas founder Declan Ganley to the organisation.

FA

They ALL bullshit on about transparency tranquillity and acountability . I'll turn in my grave the day I see any of the parties we have making genuine use of any of those words.

snapple drinker wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Even if he does get some power - what can he do with it ? What do you think he'll do once he gets democratic power ?

Declan already has power, none accrued democratically. I have a natural distrust of any business interests proclaiming a political mandate on my turf, especially one with proven US military interests.

I dunno Audi, Declan would probably push a eurosceptic agenda. I'm open to correction here.

Sod it but aren't you getting a bit too bogged down in Ganley's life now ?

snapple drinker wrote:

Cowen took a dig at Libertas during the FF ard Fheis yesterday. Ganley got the rejoinder in before close of business I see. Good to see he's on his toes.

It's a sign of how far Libertas have come in Irish politics that an Taoiseach is making repeated reference to them in an Ard-Fheis speech.

snapple drinker wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Even if he does get some power - what can he do with it ? What do you think he'll do once he gets democratic power ?

Declan already has power, none accrued democratically. I have a natural distrust of any business interests proclaiming a political mandate on my turf, especially one with proven US military interests.

I dunno Audi, Declan would probably push a eurosceptic agenda. I'm open to correction here.

OH MY ACTUAL GOD! Would you people ever get over yourselves. Libertas are NOT now, have never been and NEVER WILL BE A EUROSCEPTIC organisation. You can repeat to yourselves that they are over and over again but it does not alter the reality, which is that they are fully in favour of the European Union, have no desire to see it ended but want to change it for the better. Even if you focus on Ganley alone, as most of you seem to do and again and again rejecting the fact that Libertas is more than Declan Ganley, he himself is not Eurosceptic.

It's getting silly at this stage that you lot persist on saying Libertas/Ganley are Eurosceptic. They're not and you're going to look pretty stupid in a few months time. But by all means continue to make a show of yourselves.

Auditor #9 wrote:

snapple drinker wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Even if he does get some power - what can he do with it ? What do you think he'll do once he gets democratic power ?

Declan already has power, none accrued democratically. I have a natural distrust of any business interests proclaiming a political mandate on my turf, especially one with proven US military interests.

I dunno Audi, Declan would probably push a eurosceptic agenda. I'm open to correction here.

A political mandate on your turf - is that what Ganley represents - a threat to old Ireland and its established turfers ... ? I can see nothing but good to come out of a bit of competition ...

Quote :

All oversight rules, he said, which apply to political parties will “also be applied to groups which campaign to influence elections and referendums”. He did not specifically identify Libertas.

Speaking to journalists, Mr Cowen said: “We are engaged in a lot of reform in this to improve transparency and accountability and to make sure that everyone is upfront about what the source of their funding is.

“Just as political parties should be open to allow Sipo to come in and ensure that all the procedures are complied with and that the law is being complied with, those interest groups or other groups that come forward to influence elections or referenda should have to do the same.”

Libertas has consistently rejected charges from the Yes side about its funding of its campaign against the Lisbon Treaty last year, and insisted that it has complied with all electoral laws.

However, Sipo, chaired by a High Court judge, last November issued a seven-day warning to the organisation to disclose its funding sources, and the terms of a loan granted by Libertas founder Declan Ganley to the organisation.

FA

They ALL bullshit on about transparency tranquillity and acountability . I'll turn in my grave the day I see any of the parties we have making genuine use of any of those words.

We all know that,

cookiemonster wrote:

snapple drinker wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Even if he does get some power - what can he do with it ? What do you think he'll do once he gets democratic power ?

Declan already has power, none accrued democratically. I have a natural distrust of any business interests proclaiming a political mandate on my turf, especially one with proven US military interests.

I dunno Audi, Declan would probably push a eurosceptic agenda. I'm open to correction here.

OH MY ACTUAL GOD! Would you people ever get over yourselves. Libertas are NOT now, have never been and NEVER WILL BE A EUROSCEPTIC organisation. You can repeat to yourselves that they are over and over again but it does not alter the reality, which is that they are fully in favour of the European Union, have no desire to see it ended but want to change it for the better. Even if you focus on Ganley alone, as most of you seem to do and again and again rejecting the fact that Libertas is more than Declan Ganley, he himself is not Eurosceptic.

It's getting silly at this stage that you lot persist on saying Libertas/Ganley are Eurosceptic. They're not and you're going to look pretty stupid in a few months time. But by all means continue to make a show of yourselves.

Oh My definitive actual God. Cookie that does not square up, he is welded to eurosceptics and supporteed by eurosceptics how come ? they just think it's good for Democracy to support someone who is in theory ideologicallly oposed to them?
What does Deco say to Klaus when they cosy up togethre
Klaus : EU NEIN
Ganley EU Ja
Klaus lets pray together
ganley Yes lets do

Frightened Albanian wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

snapple drinker wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Even if he does get some power - what can he do with it ? What do you think he'll do once he gets democratic power ?

Declan already has power, none accrued democratically. I have a natural distrust of any business interests proclaiming a political mandate on my turf, especially one with proven US military interests.

I dunno Audi, Declan would probably push a eurosceptic agenda. I'm open to correction here.

OH MY ACTUAL GOD! Would you people ever get over yourselves. Libertas are NOT now, have never been and NEVER WILL BE A EUROSCEPTIC organisation. You can repeat to yourselves that they are over and over again but it does not alter the reality, which is that they are fully in favour of the European Union, have no desire to see it ended but want to change it for the better. Even if you focus on Ganley alone, as most of you seem to do and again and again rejecting the fact that Libertas is more than Declan Ganley, he himself is not Eurosceptic.

It's getting silly at this stage that you lot persist on saying Libertas/Ganley are Eurosceptic. They're not and you're going to look pretty stupid in a few months time. But by all means continue to make a show of yourselves.

Oh My definitive actual God. Cookie that does not square up, he is welded to eurosceptics and supporteed by eurosceptics how come ? they just think it's good for Democracy to support someone who is in theory ideologicallly oposed to them?
What does Deco say to Klaus when they cosy up togethre
Klaus : EU NEIN
Ganley EU Ja
Klaus lets pray together
ganley Yes lets do

Klaus has said that there is no other way for his country other than for it to be a member of the EU. He's never called for his country to leave the EU and he has quite clearly (he's not a man to mince his words) stated what he sees as being wrong with the EU. He may have his own reasons but from what I have seen the Libertas message (which has never been a Eurosceptic one) sits well with what Klaus has said in the past. He too wants a more open and democratic EU.
Of course an organisation speeking of radical change of the EU is going to attract some eurosceptics* but that doesn't make Libertas eurosceptic. Apart from spewk out and advocate a no vote in a treaty referendum (and win - which isn't a eurosceptic action) what other action has Libertas done that could be considered eurosceptic?

*they come in all flavours at this stage, from those who wish to see it end to those who hope for reform.

Libertas can not have its cake and eat it, your rethoric and actions are not in synch, what are people supposed to believe?

It is your and ganley's ibelief that we should believe anything that comes out of his mouth which we plainly CAN'T. his history of fudge and reversal on statements is now legendary.

You are never going to get conclusion here because there is no definitive definition of eurosceptic. However, the generally used definition is someone who is not in favour of the ongoing process of european integration. Is Declan Ganley in favour of the ongoing process of european integration? I don't know because we're still waiting for his elusive policies to be released. However, if he isn't then he is, in the conventional understanding, a eurosceptic. The word eurosceptic does not necessarily pertain to being anti interaction and cooperation between European States though. You can be both pro some form of cooperation whilst still eurosceptic in the conventional understanding of the word.

Frightened Albanian wrote:

Libertas can not have its cake and eat it, your rethoric and actions are not in synch, what are people supposed to believe?

What rethoric, where Ganley says that neither he nor Libertas are eurosceptics, the one where nobody has yet show one action Libertas has taken that could be described as eurosceptic?

Quote :

It is your and ganley's ibelief that we should believe anything that comes out of his mouth which we plainly CAN'T. his history of fudge and reversal on statements is now legendary.

Well, putting aside the fact that I have no reason not to trust what Ganley has said about anything... no, I don't believe anything is asking you to blindly trust anything that I, Ganley or anybody else is saying. What I don't think is unreasonable is to ask that you don't instantly and often dishonestly paint everything he says as being a lie, eurosceptic and so on. Such a stance is more in tune with paranoia rather than healthy skepticism.

funny that the word Eurosceptic resonants so much with you. Hav you looked at the ganley accounts on people korps?

I think you should listen to Cookiemonster on this. Ganley is not seen as eurosceptic by the eurosceptics. That is making real difficulties for him right across Europe, where the groups who naturally gravitate to him because of otherwise shared ideology are put off by his lack of euroscepticism.

How can someone who wants a Presidency of Europe be a eurosceptic?

Europe and the EU are in crisis. The meeting this weekend is being held in a situation of panic. What to do about eastern europe (in collapse), Ireland, Spain, Greece and Italy (bankrupt), the UK (banking sector bankrupt). There is talk about Germany leaving to escape the implosion and the pressure to bail out others.

At the same time the tensions between the US and EU are likely to get much bigger. Obama is making changes that will knock the US FDI out of Ireland and pauperise us. Trichet has said we wont be bailed out. We now have the Taoiseach telling us we will have to live off shellfish and seaweed.

The Lisbon Treaty was never as critical as the Nice Treaty. It is now a side show in relation to the gathering storm of sovereign defaults within the eurozone.

There will be big political shifts out of this. Imo, keeping an eye on the right is important, but it is far more important to build an alternative. The situation of having trained and skilled people sent home and told not to work is ludicrous and none of our parties are tackling it.

I agree that it is his right wing divisive agenda that is the greatest threat. As no one knows what he believes etc hard to judge. however the fact that MEP will run a sLibertas candidates in france does little to help the claim that the party is not eurosceptic but don't wnat to say it.
ganley's own meglomania is another issue. He would sell snow to the eskimos.

Something else is on my mind re Toxic and his left wing views; he has repeatedly come on with the "fair paly to the bogman for doing well line". fair play for what? he is involved in war mongering, profittering on the back of proletariate in Albania what left wing person says fair play to that?

Frightened Albanian wrote:

I agree that it is his right wing divisive agenda that is the greatest threat. As no one knows what he believes etc hard to judge. however the fact that MEP will run a sLibertas candidates in france does little to help the claim that the party is not eurosceptic but don't wnat to say it.
ganley's own meglomania is another issue. He would sell snow to the eskimos.

What "right wing divisive" agenda? Have you seen some secret Libertas policy that I haven't? Because if you haven't seen it you must be making it up. There is no "right wing" agenda because right no there is no agenda other than the stated intent to bring more accountability, transparency and democracy to Europe. That in itself is neither right wing, divisive or Eurosceptic and I fail to see how it could become or even be brought about by anything "right wing" or divisive.

Quote :

Something else is on my mind re Toxic and his left wing views; he has repeatedly come on with the "fair paly to the bogman for doing well line". fair play for what? he is involved in war mongering, profittering on the back of proletariate in Albania what left wing person says fair play to that?

You're attacking Toxic now because he's not engaging in your bizzare anti-Ganley crusade. It's quite clear where Toxic's non-fawning respect for Ganley begins and ends. You are, as usual, playing dumb, ignoring the obvious intent of the statement and fighting a straw man you've created which doesn't exist to any reasonable or logical person who isn't hell bent on smearing Ganley. It's pathetic.

Frightened Albanian wrote:

I agree that it is his right wing divisive agenda that is the greatest threat. As no one knows what he believes etc hard to judge. however the fact that MEP will run a sLibertas candidates in france does little to help the claim that the party is not eurosceptic but don't wnat to say it.
ganley's own meglomania is another issue. He would sell snow to the eskimos.

Something else is on my mind re Toxic and his left wing views; he has repeatedly come on with the "fair paly to the bogman for doing well line". fair play for what? he is involved in war mongering, profittering on the back of proletariate in Albania what left wing person says fair play to that?

Is that the MPLF you mean? Are they eurosceptic ? They share the right wing traditional Catholic agenda with Ganley. Shockingly bad translation, but this gives a good account of de Villiers and the MPF's politics. There is far too much mystery made of Ganley's politics. They are very clear from the company he keeps:

Quote :

The April 10th 2007, the MPF presented to Lyon the contents of its program “to turn the back on the three evils which gangrène our society: Globalism, Socialism and the communautarism”. It summarized this program in a word: “My project, it is the Patriotisme! ”. According to him, “patriotism is a method of government, the only one which will allow France to end mass strikes and to stop the haemorrhage of the Délocalisation S. Only patriotism can make it possible to restore the reference marks of society and the values of the personal liabilities (...) the authority of the State and the Republic. ” This program is defined in 337 measures, among which suppression of the Wealth tax and an end to the 35 hours week and the fixing of the Taxes and social security deduction ata maximum rate of 38% of GDP.

During his countryside, Philippe de Villiers was in particular illustrated by a series of posters to the very direct messages, such “You are against the marriage homo… me also”, “You also prefer the craft industry with the assistantship… me”, “You for immigration zero… me”, are also supplemented by the leitmotiv “Villiers, the good sense”.

http://www.speedylook.com/Philippe_de_Villiers.html

cactus flower wrote:

There is far too much mystery made of Ganley's politics.

Nice choice of words there "mystery made", may mystery around it certainly is made.
He's pro-maket and he's catholic. There is no mystery in what that means.

Quote :

They are very clear from the company he keeps:

That statement is a load of nonsense and more so for Ganley that for anybody else I know. I'm not religious, I'm not homophobic, I'm not a nationalist, I'm hardly any of the things you lot have accused Ganley of being (come to think of it, he is hardly any of the things you people have accused him of being) so your "you're judged by your associates" - as Dick Roach nicely put it - argument is a load of crap.