New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections

ibis wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

If your new ploy it to brand people who voted again Lisbon as Anti-EU you're not going to make any friends nor win anybody over. As well as being nonsense it's very insulting to an awful lot of people.

It's accurate for the majority of No proponents. That it isn't for you makes you an exception, but doesn't change the general picture.

Can you substantiate that Ibis? From what I remember of the multiple voter surveys in the last year, every man woman and child here is a sworn devotee of Baphomet.

I seriously hope the government, in their next campaign, promotes the Eurosceptic argument.

Telling folks that they don't like the EU, as opposed to Europe, may wake many up to the fact that they really do despise the EU. That'd simplify things dramatically. Us confessed Eurosceptics should concentrate on the destruction of the homogenisation of the terms "European Union" and "Europe." To hear the EU called "Europe," is quite distasteful. But very effective propaganda nonetheless. I often find myself using it that way too.

Or maybe they might try the good ole US tried and trusted method: "If you're not with us, you're against us." Now that really would make for interesting times!

Screw the EU!? No. You may have bought lunch (in McDonalds), that doesn't mean we're hitting my bedroom. A simple "adios amigos!" will suffice.

cactus flower wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

evercloserunion wrote:

Why are you still here? Don't mean to be insulting but I thought you left.

Like Chuck Norris I don't leave, I wait.

For the Cookietatorship ?

http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/

Cactus did you think my name was Chuck Norris?

Hermes wrote:

I seriously hope the government, in their next campaign, promotes the Eurosceptic argument.

Telling folks that they don't like the EU, as opposed to Europe, may wake many up to the fact that they really do despise the EU. That'd simplify things dramatically. Us confessed Eurosceptics should concentrate on the destruction of the homogenisation of the terms "European Union" and "Europe." To hear the EU called "Europe," is quite distasteful. But very effective propaganda nonetheless. I often find myself using it that way too.

Or maybe they might try the good ole US tried and trusted method: "If you're not with us, you're against us." Now that really would make for interesting times!

Screw the EU!? No. You may have bought lunch (in McDonalds), that doesn't mean we're hitting my bedroom. A simple "adios amigos!" will suffice.

And I hope that the No campaign is full of people like you openly claiming to hate the EU. Because you may think everyone agrees with you, everyone thinks everyone agrees with them, but they don't. The vast majority recognize the importance of the EU for us and for the world.

If the government try to link a No vote to an anti-EU vote it will backfire, but if the No side do this themselves then Lisbon will go through just fine.

evercloserunion wrote:

Hermes wrote:

I seriously hope the government, in their next campaign, promotes the Eurosceptic argument.

Telling folks that they don't like the EU, as opposed to Europe, may wake many up to the fact that they really do despise the EU. That'd simplify things dramatically. Us confessed Eurosceptics should concentrate on the destruction of the homogenisation of the terms "European Union" and "Europe." To hear the EU called "Europe," is quite distasteful. But very effective propaganda nonetheless. I often find myself using it that way too.

Or maybe they might try the good ole US tried and trusted method: "If you're not with us, you're against us." Now that really would make for interesting times!

Screw the EU!? No. You may have bought lunch (in McDonalds), that doesn't mean we're hitting my bedroom. A simple "adios amigos!" will suffice.

And I hope that the No campaign is full of people like you openly claiming to hate the EU. Because you may think everyone agrees with you, everyone thinks everyone agrees with them, but they don't. The vast majority recognize the importance of the EU for us and for the world.

To me it's not about being right or wrong, with regard to how I think they feel. If a majority express a certain viewpoint, I'll not be moaning about it, folks are entitled to believe what they will. But to be honest, what does get on my tits, is to be donwgraded and catagorised as some sort of sub-ape simply for holding and expressing an opinion that's contrary to allegedly popular opinion. I'm not saying it happens on this forum, that's not the point I'm making, but it does happen. Regarding the Lisbon vote, it's happened and indeed the majority who held the vote are now being slagged off by the minority. The only evidence that can be used to define the state of mind of the majority of Europeans is at best, anecdotal. As for what the EU has done for us and the rest of the world, I disagree with you as to what this amounts to.

evercloserunion wrote:

If the government try to link a No vote to an anti-EU vote it will backfire, but if the No side do this themselves then Lisbon will go through just fine.

That's true to a degree I think. My thinking on it is that campaigning the first time round possibly only influenced swing voters and that the vast majority made up their own minds on the topic. I reckon that if this is the case, and even to a point if it isn't, that a sizeable portion voted 'no' simply because they are sick of the EU and our government always serving them in lieu of us. My evidednce of this is anecdotal too and may be just wishful thinking on my part. But that's the danger with regard to all such evidence and conclusions based upon it.

I mean, we had an indigenous media, pushing for the yes. We had the majority of our politicians pushing for a yes. And all of them for most of the time predicting that Lisbon would be ratified. For the most part, it's the very same parties that add all this anecdotal evidence into the public domain - having just demonstrated that their analytical skills are non-existent.

On the other side of the coin, we have the various parts of the 'no' campaign. I'll describe them as being diverse and leave the description at that. If they are not a big reason for the 'no' vote and nobody cares what they say, then saying something else that might be potentially off the wall like "the majority want out of Europe," folks will mostly just shrug their shoulders and make up their own reason as to why they're voting the way they are.

Whether I echo opinion, influence it or indeed have sfa to do with any of it. I won't even be voting. I'm quite at ease in accepting whatever choice folks make. If I were an analyst, particularly for the 'yes' side, I'd try to ensure to focus on the actual issues at stake, rather that the actual nutball issues that arose during Lisbon I. The 'yes' side mostly dealt with dismissing these issues, then crying about them after the vote, and now, they're setting out to repeat this strategy.

Folks will make up their own minds. I for one, trust them, for the most part to filter out the bullshite that either side tries to shovel.

I'll use some more anecdotal evidence to make another observation. It's not only the EU that people are sick of. If there was a general election right now, and you ran some monkies in each jurisdiction, they'd be elected and would hold the strongest majority government our State has ever formed. I for one, would sure exercise my vote. And I belong to the true majority in this country, the crowd who don't vote at all, and that's not anecdotal.