The Privatisation of Irish Politics

Kev Bar wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Honest to god, I wouldn't care if he was a Japanese member of the Taliban, if he behaved himself. What has nationality got to do with anything?

Where I do take issue is in his being a tax exile, and not even being prepared to say where he pays his taxes. No representation without taxation, please.

Are you opposed to Ganley because you think he is British???

No but I do find his paeans to the virtues of turf as sickening as they are newly memorised. The British nationality is only relevant in light of his whole Plastic Paddy routine or as Dick Roche put it: "wrapping himself in a tricolour of convenience."
It's a nauseating see-through ploy for popularity. He just stopped short of giving out a recipe for brown bread to everybody in the audience on the Late Late.
Although I do agree there are more pertinent charges to aim at him.

Would you see as a bit of green image/branding ? Like Erin cup-a-soup ?

cactus flower wrote:

Kev Bar wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Honest to god, I wouldn't care if he was a Japanese member of the Taliban, if he behaved himself. What has nationality got to do with anything?

Where I do take issue is in his being a tax exile, and not even being prepared to say where he pays his taxes. No representation without taxation, please.

Are you opposed to Ganley because you think he is British???

No but I do find his paeans to the virtues of turf as sickening as they are newly memorised. The British nationality is only relevant in light of his whole Plastic Paddy routine or as Dick Roche put it: "wrapping himself in a tricolour of convenience."
It's a nauseating see-through ploy for popularity. He just stopped short of giving out a recipe for brown bread to everybody in the audience on the Late Late.
Although I do agree there are more pertinent charges to aim at him.

Would you see as a bit of green image/branding ? Like Erin cup-a-soup ?

And this has what to do with the privatisation of Irish politics?

I find some of the above stuff highly insulting. Why is he not allowed to talk about turf or whatever, he grew up in Galway from a kid, and his family were Galway through and through. It's his accent, that's all, that makes you say it's fake. Dick Roche can f*ck off, Ganley is entitled to embrace both his Irishness and his Englishness, as am I, that's what we're allowed when we're dumped on other countries and brought up not knowing what the hell we are or where we belong, particularly during the Troubles in Britain. Attack Ganley on his policies or whatever, but leave the nationality out of it, he can call himself what he sees fit.

toxic avenger wrote:

I find some of the above stuff highly insulting. Why is he not allowed to talk about turf or whatever, he grew up in Galway from a kid, and his family were Galway through and through. It's his accent, that's all, that makes you say it's fake. Dick Roche can f*ck off, Ganley is entitled to embrace both his Irishness and his Englishness, as am I, that's what we're allowed when we're dumped on other countries and brought up not knowing what the hell we are or where we belong, particularly during the Troubles in Britain. Attack Ganley on his policies or whatever, but leave the nationality out of it, he can call himself what he sees fit.

Fair enough, toxic avenger, I withdraw the Erin cup-a-soup remark: while I think that Ganley very carefully cultivates and presents an image, it is not in any way his dual or single nationality that I have any issue with, as i hope I made very clear earlier in the thread.

cactus flower wrote:

toxic avenger wrote:

I find some of the above stuff highly insulting. Why is he not allowed to talk about turf or whatever, he grew up in Galway from a kid, and his family were Galway through and through. It's his accent, that's all, that makes you say it's fake. Dick Roche can f*ck off, Ganley is entitled to embrace both his Irishness and his Englishness, as am I, that's what we're allowed when we're dumped on other countries and brought up not knowing what the hell we are or where we belong, particularly during the Troubles in Britain. Attack Ganley on his policies or whatever, but leave the nationality out of it, he can call himself what he sees fit.

Fair enough, toxic avenger, I withdraw the Erin cup-a-soup remark: while I think that Ganley very carefully cultivates and presents an image, it is not in any way his dual or single nationality that I have any issue with, as i hope I made very clear earlier in the thread.

While still having a go at him about it, yeah?

"I'm not a racist, but... "

This is the OP. It would seem, cookie, that the development of the thread fits into the OP's vision.

Now might be a good time for the majority of posters to up their game on this thread. The standard of posting could improve immensely if we could abandon one-word and smart-ass answers for the sake of discussing the issues. The level of trolling on both sides is getting out of control. The last two pages have little to recommend them to any reader.

On either side, it's apparently not possible to post without being informed by deeply held personal convictions. Fine. But if that degenerates into further pettiness, the Mod team will have to look at ruthless culling of posts without warning.

More links, less ad-hominem, more engagement with the facts as they are known or can be evidenced, fewer snide remarks, less sneering and less huffiness would be nice, please and thanks.

If in doubt, re-read the Charter.


Mod Kate P.

Quote :

I'm working on an idea; the privatisation of politics, and Irish politics in particular. On a global scale, we have seen a proliferation of privatisation of government functions, at local, state, and national levels, taking the form of public private partnerships (PPPs). In fact, it is EU policy, to encourage this model of governance, despite the highly questionable results so far.

With the recent upheavals in the financial markets, we have seen unprecedented interventions by Governments in the banking systems and markets, as well as corporations like auto-makers in the US. With regards to the banks, all of the storm has been focused on the public money being used to prop up private profiteers. But there has been very little wind behind efforts to to look into how private entities are reaching into government, and negotiating positions of power, with other peoples money.

But the most striking example of the privatization of politics in Ireland, and Europe, comes in the form of Libertas. Ironically, just when free-market economics have driven us to the precipice, along comes this outfit calling for even less regulation and Government 'interference' with business. Along comes a designer 'political party' out of the blue, which launches itself, and is actually taken seriously by some, despite the fact that it has no candidates and no detailed policies; just a few handy slogans. It can't even be described as a cult of personality, because there are simply no members. There are only employees and players. Yet, the public are being asked for 100 million euros. And that is just the beginning.

The irony is that if we had passed the Lisbon Treaty, that we would have fundamental rights, which would protect us against this type of highly funded attack on Government, and public decision-making. As bad as Irish law has proven, in terms of protecting us from the privatisation of politics, the EU is even weaker. In fact, as far as I know, it funded the Libertas campaign, along with what currently appears to be a single donor. The traditional democratic checks and balances have failed citizens on many fronts, simultaneously. Only an inspiring vision of political integrity can save us now, which is the one thing our government and our new 'Liberator', sorely lack.

The People's Movement seems to be a political response to the current trend, with Patricia McKenna, Aengus O Snodaigh and others teaming up, in an NGO or third party type front. And while I respect the integrity of the members, I remain completely unmoved. So, what now?

Don't bother even engaging the guy he is about as truthful as his master.
Time to just ignore

NB I will be scanning Ganley accounts over the next few days can I post them here?

cookiemonster wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

toxic avenger wrote:

I find some of the above stuff highly insulting. Why is he not allowed to talk about turf or whatever, he grew up in Galway from a kid, and his family were Galway through and through. It's his accent, that's all, that makes you say it's fake. Dick Roche can f*ck off, Ganley is entitled to embrace both his Irishness and his Englishness, as am I, that's what we're allowed when we're dumped on other countries and brought up not knowing what the hell we are or where we belong, particularly during the Troubles in Britain. Attack Ganley on his policies or whatever, but leave the nationality out of it, he can call himself what he sees fit.

Fair enough, toxic avenger, I withdraw the Erin cup-a-soup remark: while I think that Ganley very carefully cultivates and presents an image, it is not in any way his dual or single nationality that I have any issue with, as i hope I made very clear earlier in the thread.

While still having a go at him about it, yeah?

"I'm not a racist, but... "

The distinction is there between Ganley's nationality, and the way he presents it as part of his political identity. Toxic Avenger feels its genuine, if I'm understanding right, and I feel its fake. I am also turned off by Bertie with his pint of Bass and Brian with his ballads. In fact I think they're worse, as Ganley has the excuse that he is up against the anti-outsider attitudes in Ireland.

cookiemonster wrote:

ZOMG! What the hell are you talking about?!

ganley's forestry company one of five in Volograd region. The region produuces 20% of Russias wood products so Ganley could not have ownned Russias biggest forestry /timber firms as he claimed , and still claims, in other words yet another example of Ganley hype, over sell, and dishonesty.

You should just learn how to read things that upset you before saying you don't understand.

If they are Ganley's personal accounts rather than Libertas's, it might be better to post them where you are already posting on his business history.

If possible, I would like this thread to stay on the topic which is Libertas as a Pan European party - policy, alliances and so on.

cookie when have you ever discussed the topic on a thread?
answer this and I might let you off, why did Ganley lie saying his nationality appears as British on his company registrations because of errors ticking a box. The idiot filled them in in his own hand , there are no boxes to tick and he wrote British in his own hand?

Frightened Albanian wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

ZOMG! What the hell are you talking about?!

ganley's forestry company one of five in Volograd region. The region produuces 20% of Russias wood products so Ganley could not have ownned Russias biggest forestry /timber firms as he claimed , and still claims, in other words yet another example of Ganley hype, over sell, and dishonesty.

You should just learn how to read things that upset you before saying you don't understand.

And you have sources of all this?

cactus flower wrote:

If possible, I would like this thread to stay on the topic which is Libertas as a Pan European party - policy, alliances and so on.

It's not, don't kid yourself.

Frightened Albanian wrote:

cookie when have you ever discussed the topic on a thread?
answer this and I might let you off, why did Ganley lie saying his nationality appears as British on his company registrations because of errors ticking a box. The idiot filled them in in his own hand , there are no boxes to tick and he wrote British in his own hand?

You have a copy of the form? You've seen his handwriting? You have proof that it was he who wrote on the form?

cactus flower wrote:

The distinction is there between Ganley's nationality, and the way he presents it as part of his political identity. Toxic Avenger feels its genuine, if I'm understanding right, and I feel its fake. I am also turned off by Bertie with his pint of Bass and Brian with his ballads. In fact I think they're worse, as Ganley has the excuse that he is up against the anti-outsider attitudes in Ireland.

It's not about whether I feel it's genuine or not, I don't know the man or his motives. It's the assumption it's fake because there is a British aspect to his upbringing and identity that I am bothered by. He might well, for all I know, be milking it for his own ends, but none of us know that. And, as someone, like me, who grew up in Britain in an Irish family in the 70s and 80s during the days of the PTA, bombs going off, Special Branch raids, and other stuff you could not begin to understand unless you were there at the time, I would never begin to presume to sit in judgment on his expressed perception of his identity. He might well have had to actually defend his Irish identity in very difficult circumstances, as did I, something not understood or experienced in the Republic.

cookiemonster wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

ZOMG! What the hell are you talking about?!

ganley's forestry company one of five in Volograd region. The region produuces 20% of Russias wood products so Ganley could not have ownned Russias biggest forestry /timber firms as he claimed , and still claims, in other words yet another example of Ganley hype, over sell, and dishonesty.

You should just learn how to read things that upset you before saying you don't understand.

And you have sources of all this?

of course cookie boy, you should subscribe to lexis nexis yourself

Frightened Albanian wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

ZOMG! What the hell are you talking about?!

ganley's forestry company one of five in Volograd region. The region produuces 20% of Russias wood products so Ganley could not have ownned Russias biggest forestry /timber firms as he claimed , and still claims, in other words yet another example of Ganley hype, over sell, and dishonesty.

You should just learn how to read things that upset you before saying you don't understand.

And you have sources of all this?

of course cookie boy, you should subscribe to lexis nexis yourself

C'mon then. Lets see them.

FA and Cookie,

I've deleted five or six posts between both of you that do exactly what both of you have been complaining of. Please read the Mod comment I wrote above.

Enough already.

Kate P Mod

cookiemonster wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:

cookie when have you ever discussed the topic on a thread?
answer this and I might let you off, why did Ganley lie saying his nationality appears as British on his company registrations because of errors ticking a box. The idiot filled them in in his own hand , there are no boxes to tick and he wrote British in his own hand?

You have a copy of the form? You've seen his handwriting? You have proof that it was he who wrote on the form?

YES thanks be to Allah Yes I do
I do indeed and I feel happy about this!!!!! Tell him he can start practicing a new style of penmanship.

YES YES YES his hand his signiture and plenty other examples for comparison, just shows you huh?

[quote="Frightened Albanian"just shows you huh?[/quote]

What shows me? Because you've shown nothing.

I was waiting for Jason O'Toole to do something but it seems Jason really has gone native.......Jason enjoy Tiriana if you really are off there next month.

Don't woory Cookie you will see them when you get your subscription to lexis nexis

Frightened Albanian wrote:

I was waiting for Jason O'Toole to do something but it seems Jason really has gone native.......Jason enjoy Tiriana if you really are off there next month.

What?

Quote :

Don't woory Cookie you will see them when you get your subscription to lexis nexis

You're not making the claims on Lexis Nexis, you are making them here. You have yet to provide any reputable proof of any of the claims you've made about Ganley here. One can only assume that your claims have no substance at all until you provide proof. What are you afraidf of? Why won't you present, in full a relevant, referenced proof of your cliams?

SKRIN market and corporate news

January 24, 2003
JSC "LPK Kipelovo" wood removal rose 9% to 284.6 thous cm for 2002

LENGTH: 82 words

JSC "LPK Kipelovo"
rose 9% wood removal for 2002 versus 2001 to 284.6 thous cm. About this
SKRIN was informed by the ZAO "National timber industrial company"
press-service. Assortment wood storage amounted to 272.7 thous cm for
2002 (growth 4%) for 2002, assortment removal - 284.6 thous cm (growth
of 9%). JSC "LPK "Kipelovo"
is one of the largest timber industrial enterprises in Vologodsky
Region , enters ZAO "National timber industrial company" owned by Group
"Sputnik".

Russia’s official harvest of just over 100 million m3 (the unofficial harvest is 10% to 30% higher
due to illegal logging) is currently an astonishingly low proportion (16%–20%) of its apparent
sustainable annual cut. Consequently, a huge surplus of mature wood exists in Russia. European
associations believe that the harvest could be expanded to 250 million m3 within ten years if the
necessary government and industry changes are implemented. Growing log export markets in
China and Europe — and the profits they generate — are presently pushing the issues of
institutional change. Although questions remain about the overall economic health of the forest
industry, the amount of Russian corruption, and its need for capital investment, it’s obvious that
profitability on the export front is the driving force behind Russian-financed investments in
forestry and logging.
http://www.woodmarkets.com/Press%20Releases/03-03-27%20-%20Russia%20Wood%20Industry.pdf


You do the maths cookie Kipelovo 284.6 thous cm
Russia 250 million m3

So Kipelovo was Russia's biggest forestry company????
No just another false claim by Ganley.

FYI there are 100 cm in 1 m