The Privatisation of Irish Politics

toxic avenger wrote:

ibis wrote:

Not really - it's a question of being sufficiently certain that what you believe is right that you're willing to have it enshrined in law. You must be aware that people (like me,say) do not agree that it is equivalent to murder - and indeed, I would say that outlawing abortion leads to greater distress to human beings than does allowing it.

That's not to argue whether abortion is right or wrong - it's to point out that you are willing to override my disagreement because you know you're right. It's not about whether you think abortion is murder, but that you are sure - sure enough to ensure that while I may be able to argue my side of the debate, I am arguing for something that is illegal. That is an authoritarian position - "I am right, this is wrong, therefore we shall make it criminal to do it".

One can follow the same line on drugs - I know people who are convinced that drugs are wrong, and are therefore 100% behind keeping them illegal. It doesn't matter why they think drugs are wrong - what matters is that because they think drugs are wrong, they think they should be illegal.

Or on racism. Or on sexism. Is that authoritarian?

Logically, yes. If I disapprove of racism or sexism, and decide that what needs to be done is to make it illegal, that's an authoritarian attitude. If I supported an educational programme aimed at changing social attitudes, that would not be authoritarian.

How much is Ganley currently spending?

[quote="ibis"]

Anticoalition wrote:

My problem is that I agree with all that, and yet - to be blunt, usually what I see is that you are essentially engaged in hounding Cookiemonster. I appreciate that CM is the only identifiable "representative" of Libertas posting on either p.ie or here, but the attack style is very off-putting - CM is not Libertas. He's someone who has chosen to support Libertas, but he is not a spokesperson for Libertas, and online forums are neither press conferences nor courtrooms.

[/i].

Is Cookie Monster not being paid for what he does? And if so let him earn his wages. And re the tiresome cliche: "play the ball, not the man"... well the problem is that Declan Ganley has no balls - bar some right wing social views and an unpleasant rapacious capitalist background. So we have to play the man. And ergo play the men-cubs. And since Cookie has never proferred any coherent views, bar saying he wants "money" and "votes" one is left with the suspicion that he, like his leader, is a mere mercenary desperately seeking attention.

If and when Cookie,and the Libertas boys, have some balls to play with, I'll happily to do so. Until then, unfortunatey, it's a case of "Men Only".

Kev Bar wrote:

ibis wrote:

My problem is that I agree with all that, and yet - to be blunt, usually what I see is that you are essentially engaged in hounding Cookiemonster. I appreciate that CM is the only identifiable "representative" of Libertas posting on either p.ie or here, but the attack style is very off-putting - CM is not Libertas. He's someone who has chosen to support Libertas, but he is not a spokesperson for Libertas, and online forums are neither press conferences nor courtrooms.

Is Cookie Monster not being paid for what he does? And if so let him earn his wages.

No, I'm not. I have said that I am not numerous times now.

Quote :

And re the tiresome cliche: "play the ball, not the man"... well the problem is that Declan Ganley has no balls - bar some right wing social views and an unpleasant rapacious capitalist background. So we have to play the man. And ergo play the men-cubs. And since Cookie has never proferred any coherent views, bar saying he wants "money" and "votes" one is left with the suspicion that he, like his leader, is a mere mercenary desperately seeking attention.

If and when Cookie,and the Libertas boys, have some balls to play with, I'll happily to do so. Until then, unfortunatey, it's a case of "Men Only".

A mature controbution, well done.

Congrats on your 2,000th post Cookie. No doubt you will have a big celebration in store.

2000 posts Cookie.
Well if you are not being paid, you are either a trustafarian or a bad candidate for employee of the month.

Kev Bar wrote:

Is Cookie Monster not being paid for what he does? And if so let him earn his wages. And re the tiresome cliche: "play the ball, not the man"... well the problem is that Declan Ganley has no balls - bar some right wing social views and an unpleasant rapacious capitalist background. So we have to play the man. And ergo play the men-cubs. And since Cookie has never proferred any coherent views, bar saying he wants "money" and "votes" one is left with the suspicion that he, like his leader, is a mere mercenary desperately seeking attention.

If and when Cookie,and the Libertas boys, have some balls to play with, I'll happily to do so. Until then, unfortunatey, it's a case of "Men Only".

Well I think you have a fair point in that sometimes the ball and the man are the same thing or you can't look at the ball without looking at the man and in Ganley's case it seems to be the case also so far. We know very little about Libertas and are trying to find out what they're into.

You might appreciate though Kev Bar that invective against either cookie or ganley constitutes something akin to 'noise' that can blur in the way of the Truth.

On your general comments on the other thread on the choice of name for the site, thanks for your contributions but let me say this: a machine is a real item while also having the ring of 'mechanism'. Wouldn't you agree that good political analysis or policies will be based on and oriented towards how individuals treat hard tangible items and also towards facts ?

The site wants to have the tone of critical analysis of facts but inevitably there are personalities involved ( Apple shares down after Jobs' reversal on health) at which point it could be more of a 'machination' focus I suppose.

Cookie congrats on your two megabytes and may we have another at least of good sparring and analysis on www.machinenation.org whenever it kicks off.

Not to be pedantic but would 2 megabytes not be 2048 posts?

Cookie to celebrate your devotion to perverting the course of your country I unveil my new tribute to The Leader.

KevBar I see you have passed 100 posts too.

Congratulations Cookie. It can't always have been easy for you.

Kev Bar: like the graphics of your new avatar, but on the same principle that got 905's "dancing hitler"avatar banned, I will have to ask you to change it in a short while as it could be construed as provocative.

In due course Cactus. Will give him a few days in the limellight and then retire him. if life would imitate art.

Kev Bar wrote:

Cookie to celebrate your devotion to perverting the course of your country I unveil my new tribute to The Leader.

I'd delighted you based it on an image of a man who came from a being a junior Senator from Chicago to become the forty-forth President of the Unites States. The image being based on a childish smear campaigh against Obama only lends irony to your efforts given your [Mod]Snipped, Personal Abuse[/Mod] which you've demonstrated here in abundance.

Another thread run into the ground. I wonder why this keeps happening, whenever Libertas gets discussed?

Maybe it is because they still have not delivered one single policy document, one single candidate, or one single lawsuit, as promised. There is simply nothing worth talking about

early Libertas press shed any light?

Quote :

The Sunday Times (London)
November 25, 2007
Millionaire starts fund for war on EU treaty

BYLINE: Stephen O'Brien

SECTION: HOME NEWS; Eire News; Pg. 1

LENGTH: 427 words

A
BUSINESSMAN and former Fianna Fail backer is to lead a high-spending
campaign against the European Union reform treaty when it is put to a
referendum next year. Declan Ganley, a millionaire business executive, is promising to raise substantial money to help to run the campaign.Ireland is the only one of the 27 EU member states that has committed to holding a referendum on the treaty.
The
campaign will be assisted by the Libertas Institute, a liberal think
tank founded by Ganley last year. Other figures involved are Naoise
Nunn, promoter of the Leviathan political cabaret show; David Cochrane,
of the politics.ie website; and Constantin Gurdgiev, editor of a
fortnightly business magazine."The Libertas
Institute will, at the appropriate time, seek to raise funds and run a
campaign to make people aware what is in this constitution/treaty,"
said Ganley."We will be urging a no vote. There is
no way anyone in their right mind can consider giving more
decison-making power to an entity that we have no way of holding to
account."With the Green party now in government
and its leadership indicating it will support the treaty, Sinn Fein is
the only Dail party expected to campaign for a no vote. It will be
joined by groups such as the Peace and Neutrality Alliance, the Irish
anti-war movement, and People Before Profit.Ganley
was a supporter of Fianna Fail in the 1990s and gave a donation of
$25,000 to the party at a 70th anniversary dinner in New York which was
attended by Bertie Ahern, then leader of the opposition.A
native of Co Galway, he lives in Washington DC with his wife and four
children but also owns a home near Tuam, north of Galway city.He received a distinguished civilian service medal from the American government after the New Orleans emergency services used his wireless broadband technology developed at Rivada Networks, of which he is chairman, to cope with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
He
said that the removal of a crucial commitment to "free and undistorted
competition" from the European treaty was a huge blow to free trade in
Europe."Dropping the commitment from the text is designed to bolster protectionism, monopolies and vested interests," said Ganley."We
are just a set of ordinary people from business, from the academic
world, from all walks of life ... and we will do whatever we can to
urge the Irish people to vote against this treaty."A
TNSmrbi poll for The Irish Times earlier this month found 25% of voters
were planning to support the reform treaty, while 13% planned to vote
no. Some 62% were undecided.

Cactus do you know anything about the Open Republic Forum. Their website is not working well. Yhere are links to a tcd address that is not active. See http://www.speakersolutions.ie/Constantin_Gurdgiev/Default.1005.html

Editor of Business and Finance Constantin Gurdgiev interesting character.

Are these two still in the mix Cookie? "Paul MacDonald" "and Constantin Gurdgiev. They were members of the board whats the story with them?

Quote :

The Sunday Times (London)
July 1, 2007
Citizens of Europe unite and put on your thinking caps

BYLINE: Aine Coffey

SECTION: BUSINESS; Eire Business & Money; Pg. 16

LENGTH: 228 words


ONE thing you have to say for Declan Ganley, the Galway entrepreneur, is that he doesn't lack imagination. Ganley's latest venture is an online think tank about Europe's future called the Libertas Institute, for whose launch he flew Czech MEP Jana Hybaskova to his Galway pile, Moyne Park.
"The Libertas
Institute is a new type of think tank -a citizen's think tank," its
website declares, promising "ground-breaking initiatives that will seek
input from citizens across Europe and will send a loud message to the
Brussels elite". On board are Constantin Gurdgiev and Paul MacDonald,
directors of the neoliberal Open Republic Institute.
Perhaps Ganley's
public spirit was fired by the Distinguished Civilian Service medal he
received after New Orleans emergency services used his Rivada Networks'
communications technology to cope with the aftermath of Hurricane
Katrina. Rivada, whose Irish wing is loss-making, was pipped in a
recent competition to build and run a E100m Garda radio network.
Ganley
certainly has an international perspective, trading in Russian
aluminium and forestry before returning, loaded. He also co-founded the
broadband company Broadnet after Denis O'Brien beat him to a mobile
licence. In dotcom days, he set up ill-fated jewellery site Adornis.com.
Other interests have included a Bulgarian cable operation and a pan-European chauffeur company.

Anticoalition wrote:

Another thread run into the ground. I wonder why this keeps happening, whenever Libertas gets discussed?

Maybe it has something to do with Libertas rarely being discussed in threads about Libertas?

Quote :

Maybe it is because they still have not delivered one single policy document, one single candidate, or one single lawsuit, as promised. There is simply nothing worth talking about

Doesn't stop Frightened Albanian though...

Are these two still in the mix Cookie? "Paul MacDonald" "and
Constantin Gurdgiev. They were members of the board whats the story
with them?

We are still faced with the troubling Libertas dichotomy, between Libertas Institute, and Libertas the political party.

There is a mountain of material to wade through, in terms of the Institute, but nothing on the party. The Institute was privately funded, and had a very simple model. Declan had some opinions, and he paid people to make them, and him, sound credible and important. Now there is a political party, and it seems to operate the same way. All we can ascertain is that it does not seem to be working, because Ganley thinks starting a party is like opening a pan-European string of McDonalds....little national Libertas institutes, that will add up to an electoral drive-thru to power.

Is the Libertas Institute closed?

Is the political party open for business, and if so, does anyone have a say in anything besides Ganley? What are the policies and proposals? Who are the candidates? Where does the money come from? Why is there no openness and transparency? What are they afraid of?

The reality is that there is still no such thing as Libertas. It is a media con. There is only one ego-maniac with one chequebook and forty nuclear bombers...

Anticoalition wrote:

We are still faced with the troubling Libertas dichotomy, between Libertas Institute, and Libertas the political party.

There is a mountain of material to wade through, in terms of the Institute, but nothing on the party. The Institute was privately funded, and had a very simple model. Declan had some opinions, and he paid people to make them, and him, sound credible and important. Now there is a political party, and it seems to operate the same way. All we can ascertain is that it does not seem to be working, because Ganley thinks starting a party is like opening a pan-European string of McDonalds....little national Libertas institutes, that will add up to an electoral drive-thru to power.

Is the Libertas Institute closed?

Is the political party open for business, and if so, does anyone have a say in anything besides Ganley? What are the policies and proposals? Who are the candidates? Where does the money come from? Why is there no openness and transparency? What are they afraid of?

The reality is that there is still no such thing as Libertas. It is a media con. There is only one ego-maniac with one chequebook and forty nuclear bombers...

For somebody who only a few posts above said this:

Anticoalition wrote:

There is simply nothing worth talking about

You've done an awful lot of talking. There are, unfortunately, not nuclear bombers.

What the heck is this stuff about nuclear bombers? I thought Ullick only did refuelling?

cactus flower wrote:

What the heck is this stuff about nuclear bombers? I thought Ullick only did refuelling?

The Irish Times reported that Ganley bought an air-force base in Russia, in the 1990s, which had a number of nuclear bombers still sitting on it. It may have been 20, not 40.

Like I said before, with regards to Libertas, the political party, there is nothing to talk about, because it doesn't exist. All there is to talk about is the Mike Myers of Irish politics and his cabal of cronies, business associates, employees and possible interns. It's good to see nobody disagrees with that fact any more.

Anticoalition wrote:

We are still faced with the troubling Libertas dichotomy, between Libertas Institute, and Libertas the political party.

There is a mountain of material to wade through, in terms of the Institute, but nothing on the party. The Institute was privately funded, and had a very simple model. Declan had some opinions, and he paid people to make them, and him, sound credible and important. Now there is a political party, and it seems to operate the same way. All we can ascertain is that it does not seem to be working, because Ganley thinks starting a party is like opening a pan-European string of McDonalds....little national Libertas institutes, that will add up to an electoral drive-thru to power.

Is the Libertas Institute closed?

Is the political party open for business, and if so, does anyone have a say in anything besides Ganley? What are the policies and proposals? Who are the candidates? Where does the money come from? Why is there no openness and transparency? What are they afraid of?

The reality is that there is still no such thing as Libertas. It is a media con. There is only one ego-maniac with one chequebook and forty nuclear bombers...

Is there not a whole list of Libertas Companies? A party, and institutute, and various other things? Constantin Gurdieff is a right wing neo liberal academic who used to be constantly wheeled out on RTE but has been quieter recently. He supported the Lisbon Treaty but said that he would probably resume his support for Libertas after the Referendum.
Like Ganley, he would be pro US and pro deregulation.

Anticoalition wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

What the heck is this stuff about nuclear bombers? I thought Ullick only did refuelling?

The Irish Times reported that Ganley bought an air-force base in Russia, in the 1990s, which had a number of nuclear bombers still sitting on it. It may have been 20, not 40.

He owns these bombers, does he? Those russians will sell anything you know...

There are three registered organisations, you spoke about them before so you know this already.

I'd imagine he's been "quieter" because he's now the editor of Business and Finance and regularly publishes articles and editorials there.

Oh yes.. "The Foundation".

But why would that make him any less inclined to appear on RTE ?