Auditor #9 wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

So you remember Collapse? - These are hard places to make a living in the long term, unless you are a hunter gatherer.

Shipping costs are the very devil and they can't grow their own food.

Fish and free central heating are good assets though: wouldn't you think they could use some of that heat and volcanic ash for growing stuff in greenhouses?

I keep thinking of Collapse ! I have Guns, Germs and Steel and might read it but Collapse is the one it seems. Iceland was reported as being heavily deforested too and they are losing their soil into the bargain.

Human beings are quite happy to settle for the basics if they need to so I'd say the poorer people in Iceland will suffer this a lot better than the self-pampered types who might have lost their will because of years of wealth and can't imagine finding themselves having to work in very basic employment to keep their heads above water. It would be interesting to see what would happen here in Ireland if we weren't in the Euro .... What's happening in Iceland is a potentially unprecedented, horribly swift, modern famine.

Time to buy some more canned spam or ham lads, it's your only man - just in case.

Only about twenty percent of the land in Iceland is suitable for farming or for building on. Think Connemara with glaciers. So no money there. Traditionally they ate an awful lot of fish (problems there with overfishing) and seabirds. The interior is wasteland and nobody lives there. It`s sole attraction is tourism. Most of the population is within ten/ twenty miles of Rejkavik and few people live elsewhere. The country is hgely expensive so attracting tourists in the current environment is going to be difficult. One positive is that there standard of English is very good. There centralised population may make certain cutbacks easier to manage as well.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Human beings are quite happy to settle for the basics if they need to so I'd say the poorer people in Iceland will suffer this a lot better than the self-pampered types who might have lost their will because of years of wealth and can't imagine finding themselves having to work in very basic employment to keep their heads above water.

I don`t agree with that. Being materialistic and being able to deal with losing with material possessions isn`t something that you can divide along classlines. In my experience the most acquisitive people I know are at either end of the social spectrum, although someone may legitimately disagree with me here. Whether or not you will make it through the depression for most people is whether or not they can do without the foreign holiday, can entertain themselves for very little and have no interest in designer clothes. I`ve not seen any evidence that poorer people are less interested in this than those with more money. In fact I`d suggest the opposite. Poorer, less educated (in certain fields: not necessarily due to class) or more spoilt people (nothing to do with class) will also be less able to put this into historical context, may be more reliant on casual work, welfare etc. all of which are at the whim of external factors. They will be less likely to vote thus spending on them won`t be a priority.

anmajornarthainig wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Human beings are quite happy to settle for the basics if they need to so I'd say the poorer people in Iceland will suffer this a lot better than the self-pampered types who might have lost their will because of years of wealth and can't imagine finding themselves having to work in very basic employment to keep their heads above water.

I don`t agree with that. Being materialistic and being able to deal with losing with material possessions isn`t something that you can divide along classlines. In my experience the most acquisitive people I know are at either end of the social spectrum, although someone may legitimately disagree with me here. Whether or not you will make it through the depression for most people is whether or not they can do without the foreign holiday, can entertain themselves for very little and have no interest in designer clothes. I`ve not seen any evidence that poorer people are less interested in this than those with more money. In fact I`d suggest the opposite. Poorer, less educated (in certain fields: not necessarily due to class) or more spoilt people (nothing to do with class) will also be less able to put this into historical context, may be more reliant on casual work, welfare etc. all of which are at the whim of external factors. They will be less likely to vote thus spending on them won`t be a priority.

Fair enough - you have a good point - pampering isn't class-based at all and on top of that, resilience to adversity is not the pure preserve of any class either so those people up there in Iceland will have to learn quickly. It's hard to get information on it from blogs though - blogs are usually two a penny on things like that. It's a case study happening in front of the eyes of everyone I suppose ...

There's a good bit of schadenfreude around - anyone else besides me indulging themselves a little in it ? Us over here mightn't have the luxury of indulging in such a thing soon.

Violence during protests in Iceland. That's less than two months of economic discomfort before we see some violence erupt. Police, pepper spray, storming of buildings. I wonder does Iceland have a big army.

Quote :

Protesters in Iceland's capital Reykjavik have clashed with police during a demonstration over the handling of the financial crisis.

Several hundred protesters gathered outside the city's main police station to demand the release of a man jailed in a previous demonstration.

Five people were injured when police used pepper spray to disperse the group after some tried to storm the building.

Iceland faces a sharply contracting economy over the financial collapse.

The group outside the police station broke away from a much larger group of several thousand people who had gathered outside parliament to demand the government's resignation.

Some in the group tried to storm the police building.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7744355.stm

expat girl wrote:

I think the British problem was that they themselves are very indebted and a large number of county councils had huge deposits with the Icelandic banks... which means rocketting council tax bills which will hurt those on fixed incomes... pensioners, welfare recipients etc, the worst. They've probably shot their wad with the last round of bank bailouts and I'd be very worried if more is needed in the UK.

Having said that, the use of anti terror legislation is way harsh, but frankly, the only defenders of civil liberties in the UK right now are the somewhat unelected House of Lords. You can expect this situation to get worse, people we knew with Army connections say the UK army has been training for "middle class mass riot" scenarios for a few years now

I suspect Bush and Blair predicted peak oil, and the financial morass that comes with spiking commodity prices (although they may not have foreseen the credit crunch)....the Iraq war was the wrong solution

The UK army has plenty of experience from the North of Ireland and Iraq, but turning their experience on the home crowd would not be so easy.
Weird all the same to see the middle class hammering at the doors of the police headquarters in Iceland with their umbrellas and getting pepper sprayed.
The same kind of preparations have been going on in the US. The numbers in the standing armies are tiny compared with the civilian populations. Who are they going to protect? The likes of Goggin?

http://savingiceland.puscii.nl/?page_id=1137&language=en


The demonstrations in Iceland are said to be calling for early elections - a general election is not due until 2011 - to bring government our of hiding and make them communicate - and in some cases in favour of joining the EU.

http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=29314&ew_0_a_id=314365

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=111&sid=1524079

http://www.stratfor.com/memberships/127129/analysis/20081114_iceland_laboratory_social_unrest

Just found this video re worsening situation in Iceland.
The Sinking Island - Iceland

It's not very easy to get some blogs on Iceland or a forum but I found one alright below. In the video floatingingalway posted the car dealer said interest rates were 24% - less than two months ago they were at 18%.

This forum is partially in English anyway and it might be worth keeping an eye on it. They don't sound like they're in too bad shape at the moment anyhow.

http://www.forum.iceland.pl/viewtopic.php?t=6357

Quote :

A children's hospice has decided to suspend its community outreach service over uncertainty about cash invested in a failed Icelandic bank.

Naomi House in Sutton Scotney, Hampshire, has £5.7m tied up with Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander. The board met on Tuesday night and agreed unanimously to suspend the Hospice at Home service, in which staff give care to dying children at home.

Chief executive Ray Kipling said its residential service was unaffected. "We were just about to expand this service out, give more support to people in their own homes... and now we've had to put it on hold," Mr Kipling told BBC Radio Wiltshire.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/7749696.stm

cactus flower wrote:

The same kind of preparations have been going on in the US. The numbers in the standing armies are tiny compared with the civilian populations. Who are they going to protect? The likes of Goggin?

I suspect, the Government, the food and fuel supply, emergency services. Not necessarily in that order. In the 2000 UK fuel strikes, London came within a few hours of empty supermarket shelves. That time, it was just a strike, but imagine if there has been a real food shortage... London runs out of food quickly. I'd say that was the doomsday scenario W put to Blair to get him to join in the Iraq fiasco, if I had to guess. W and his oily friends knew peak oil was coming... check out the Project for the New American century, and Cheney's writeup, which said access to cheap fuel had to be maintained for keeping the US in its current pre-eminent position. And why else would GW Bush, hardly a well known eco-warrior, have an off-grid ranch in Crawford?? Go figure!

expat girl wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

The same kind of preparations have been going on in the US. The numbers in the standing armies are tiny compared with the civilian populations. Who are they going to protect? The likes of Goggin?

I suspect, the Government, the food and fuel supply, emergency services. Not necessarily in that order. In the 2000 UK fuel strikes, London came within a few hours of empty supermarket shelves. That time, it was just a strike, but imagine if there has been a real food shortage... London runs out of food quickly. I'd say that was the doomsday scenario W put to Blair to get him to join in the Iraq fiasco, if I had to guess. W and his oily friends knew peak oil was coming... check out the Project for the New American century, and Cheney's writeup, which said access to cheap fuel had to be maintained for keeping the US in its current pre-eminent position. And why else would GW Bush, hardly a well known eco-warrior, have an off-grid ranch in Crawford?? Go figure!

Hmm. Does it have a bunker? Oh no - that's Rove, isn't it, or is it Chesney ?

Icelander here keeping a blog on it as well as uploading stuff to youtube. If I ever go there I'll know that building instantly.

http://www.iceland-dori.blogspot.com/