The Situation in Iceland - Icelandic Government Falls

tonys wrote:

youngdan wrote:

How very true. The junkies are getting worried though. It is beginning to seep in to even the thickest of skulls that they are fools.

I would say to the Dell workers SUCK IT UP, Ye wanted to be part of the global world so get used to a Global standard of living. Did they think that they had a God given right to live large and hire a maid from Poland.

Ireland deserves a bigger shafting than anyplace because they thought they deserved better.

When one billion euro was given away in foreign aid they pranced arround feeling superior. Now they are begging.

It is still going on. O Dea and Bollox are visiting 300 soldiers in Kosova. How about minding yeer own business. Same thing in Chad.

The Irish have swallowed the EU baloney and their edicts so take the medicine and stop whinging.

How is that health care system doing. Remember it is a right that someone else is forced to pay for you if you get a toothache

There is two options. Face reality or continue to think that Cowen gives a shythe about you.

Bertie get's his book deal and the lugs get the book thrown at them.

Hello McFly, anyone ready for a carbon tax.

I love it.

A right wing loon agreeing with a left wing loon on what’s wrong with the asylum and what’s needed to fix it.

From the left we have the novel notion that Africa was doing just dandy until the “multinationals” and “Governments” came along and that Geldof/Bono are in it for the publicity. From the right we learn that third world aid is a bad thing as it engenders a dangerous feeling of superiority in the donor, while peace keeping is an unwelcome interference in legitimate local slaughter.

How useful is that? Two one legged men at an arse kicking party spring to mind.

Apologies in advance to the happily downhearted for interfering in this celebration of Iceland’s private grief.

You might move on from the ad hominem to debate. Otherwise you'll be alone in your skiapod monosyllabic arselicking competition.

If you think you've some sense to add to what you believe is lunacy, how about adding it. I've no desire to watch you engage in intellectual masturbation portrayed as enlightenment. As the man says: don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining.

Pick any one of the points that you've supposedly made, elaborate on it and I'll be happy to show you the error of your ways.

Manners maketh man, gentlemen.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Tonys welcome back. The left and the right are notions assigned to the portal of this forum - your own mind is a lot more subtle than that.

I'm afraid I am happily downhearted as you very well put it - things went wrong up there for them partly because they were blindly led, partly because of their own greed, partly because they trusted in a system that hadn't failed them up to that point.

Good lessons are not easily learned and with this situation there may be some chance that the old will get put away and something new established that will be more wholesome.

Not back, just popped in to do something and then decided not to, in the mean time read this thread and couldn’t resist. Seriously, the degree of unrelenting negativity coupled with lack of balance on sites like this is not good for anyone in my opinion. What you can do about it, I don’t know, it’s in the nature of the beast, but I’ve had enough of it, for now anyway.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Helium Three wrote:

tonys what is your take on the Anglo bailout? Is Morgan Kelly right to say we might as well pile that money up in Stephens Green and torch it?

In case you didn't see that good question.

Don’t know much about the details or inner workings of Anglo, but we do know that the governments “investment” is based on a very detailed report by Deloitte & Touche, was it?

As for Morgan the red, the article read a bit loose to me, until that is I came to this line “By using taxpayers' money to acquire Anglo Irish's portfolio of dingy shopping centres and derelict development sites” then my objectivity radar twitched, just.

Did that detailed report find the loan to FitzPatrick tonys do you think?

Helium Three wrote:

Did that detailed report find the loan to FitzPatrick tonys do you think?

Apparently it did, disappointing I know, but there you go, reality meeting assumptions, always a sticky end.

I'm done for now.
bye bye and a happy Christmas to one and all.

Apparently to whom though?

Well if Tony has not blessed us with his return. Everyone bow down because he is smarter than everyone else.

Hey genius. this right wing loon was able to predict 12 months ago that the Gombeens would be out by 10 billion on the budget gap. I got it exactly right as I did in calling the stock market crashing and the bank wipeout. The only clueless left are you, the bollox from Offally called Magic Arse and the dummy who was dense enough to take the finance job at the onset of a depression.

Hello McTony, is there anybody home, hellooooo.

Then he says the left wing loons are wrong.

Everyone, even though they predicted it all, is stupid but Tony knows it all. You crowds of fools brought in a budget that was out of date before it was voted on

Hello McTony, the country is going down the drain, Hello anyone home McTony.

McTony is the only one on the site who I don't bother with as he has no knowledge of economics whatsoever. He is just a FF sheep.

Like the rest they should be laughed at and hopefully they will soon be a memory.

Goodbye McTony, goodbye. I laugh more every time I see ye fools on the TV running around like chickens. Ye have no clue as to what to do.

What a circus with Laural and Hardy running the show

youngdan wrote:

Well if Tony has not blessed us with his return. Everyone bow down because he is smarter than everyone else.

Hey genius. this right wing loon was able to predict 12 months ago that the Gombeens would be out by 10 billion on the budget gap. I got it exactly right as I did in calling the stock market crashing and the bank wipeout.

So I believe, from the many times you have reminded us, on at least two sites. Does the need to do that tell you anything about yourself at all, Dan? It should.

So you've called in, tonys. Happy Christmas. You were missed very much, for yourself and for the reality with which you are in touch, with and because there is a need for the rationale of what is being done to be expressed, and you express it very well. It can't be be easy to be a defender of the FF government at the moment because people are really suffering and are frightened of what is coming down the track. You might not like the abuse but as youngdan says sometimes you have to suck it up. A few hard words are nothing compared with what people are topping themselves over.

You can throw attitude at posters here as much as you like, but people are going to suffer and are suffering from this sad, fractured, wrecked system. Wake up and stop expecting people to defer to the failed political entourage of the developers and bankers and come back and post what you think should be done.

Tells me less than your running away from answering my question on Morgan Kelly with the aid of a red smear and an irrelevancy, but hey we live and try to learn.

cactus flower wrote:

So you've called in, tonys. Happy Christmas. You were missed very much, for yourself and for the reality with which you are in touch, with and because there is a need for the rationale of what is being done to be expressed, and you express it very well. It can't be be easy to be a defender of the FF government at the moment because people are really suffering and are frightened of what is coming down the track. You might not like the abuse but as youngdan says sometimes you have to suck it up. A few hard words are nothing compared with what people are topping themselves over.

You can throw attitude at posters here as much as you like, but people are going to suffer and are suffering from this sad, fractured, wrecked system. Wake up and stop expecting people to defer to the failed political entourage of the developers and bankers and come back and post what you think should be done.

The abuse doesn’t mean anything to me at all, it might if it was coming from anyone I had any respect for, but as it is why would I mind?
Your attitude to it is interesting though.

As for being awake, I am, very much awake, but I refuse to believe the end is neigh, it’s much too early in the game for that.
I would ask you to look at the posters who do believe it’s all over or about to be and be honest with yourself, regardless of the reality or the range of possibilities, what do you think they’d like to believe.

tonys you may refuse to believe the end is neigh, but many believe that the horse has bolted.

Will you vote no again to Lisbon a dó?

What it tells me Tony is that my view and the views of the left wing loons should be listened to when the topic of what to do next is finally brought up.

You were the one to refer to me and Hermes as loons when your ideas are not working out too well. As regard respect you may not respect me or the left wing loons but I respect you and only ridicule when when I am ridiculed first. Many posters expressed admiration for you back on P.ie just a few days ago so I am left to assume that you are well respected.

If FF are going to plough ahead then we shall see what happens. I have got to believe that FF are better than what has been seen thus far.

The end is nigh because it is a mathematical impossibility to avoid disastor.

It would surprise me if most FF are not trying to figure out a way to get rid of Cowen and save themselves

Helium Three wrote:

tonys what is your take on the Anglo bailout? Is Morgan Kelly right to say we might as well pile that money up in Stephens Green and torch it?

H3 Following on from Morgan Kelly's article on fire-starting.
The burning of so much paper on the Green would perhaps create a hazardous emission .I am unsure of the level of toxic pollutant within the burnt offering.
A slight modification could yield a more significant return to the State.It goes along the lines of a suggestion which I saw previously in a piece of comment by Mary Ellen Synon.
Simply put,it would involve dicing the wedge into a pile of smaller sums and randomly depositing these mini-bricks on the seats of a sample selection of Arrivals and Departures from Heuston,Connolly,Busaras etc.

We all know that Iceland is only a step away from Ireland.

Paper-burning has been going on for sometime.

Its not about what other people will do, its about what you will do.

Interesting human interest story here: LINK.

Quote :

Sitting in an old fisherman’s cafe by the port, Orn Svavarsson shakes with rage. He sold his health food business three years ago when he was 54 and, like many of his countrymen, put the money into the stock market. It has been wiped out.
“The Icelandic people are too lazy,” he says. “Why don’t we go to the airport and block it until we get answers? “For the first time in my life I have sympathy with the Bolsheviks; with the French revolutionaries who put up the guillotine.”

Found another interesting article on the UK's Indymedia: LINK.

Quote :

Coca Cola vs. SantAnarchist Clauses

Later this same Saturday, Coca Cola had organized its annual boner-parade to take place in the center of Reykjavík. Every year, the company’s trucks are decorated with Christmas lights and loudspeakers playing American Christmas pop songs. The trucks then drive around the city, stopping in shopping malls and on busy shopping streets, were (for some absurd reason) parents have gathered with their children to experience this one big advertisement of one of the most cruel corporations in the world.

Two years ago, a small group of people tried to stop the Coca Cola train from driving down the center of Reykjavík, but were stopped by the police which drove in front of the company´s trucks. This year, people had other plan in mind.

Around 40 people and 10 SantAnarcist Clauses entered the parade, in between the trucks and the police, with a big banner saying “Coke is capitalism’s shit - Enjoy!” For about an hour, Christmas songs with anti-capitalistic texts were sung and fliers given out, explaining Coca Colas human and environmental crimes around the world. Only with the help of 6 police pigs could the Coke trucks continue their way from the center, which means that a lot of parents had to answer their kids’ question: “Why did the police stop the nice and fun Santa Clauses?”

Hermes wrote:

Found another interesting article on the UK's Indymedia: LINK.

Quote :

Coca Cola vs. SantAnarchist Clauses

Later this same Saturday, Coca Cola had organized its annual boner-parade to take place in the center of Reykjavík. Every year, the company’s trucks are decorated with Christmas lights and loudspeakers playing American Christmas pop songs. The trucks then drive around the city, stopping in shopping malls and on busy shopping streets, were (for some absurd reason) parents have gathered with their children to experience this one big advertisement of one of the most cruel corporations in the world.

Two years ago, a small group of people tried to stop the Coca Cola train from driving down the center of Reykjavík, but were stopped by the police which drove in front of the company´s trucks. This year, people had other plan in mind.

Around 40 people and 10 SantAnarcist Clauses entered the parade, in between the trucks and the police, with a big banner saying “Coke is capitalism’s shit - Enjoy!” For about an hour, Christmas songs with anti-capitalistic texts were sung and fliers given out, explaining Coca Colas human and environmental crimes around the world. Only with the help of 6 police pigs could the Coke trucks continue their way from the center, which means that a lot of parents had to answer their kids’ question: “Why did the police stop the nice and fun Santa Clauses?”

There are posts here somewhere about how people in Africa were stopped from collecting rain water on their roofs by these people - it would reduce sales of coke.

These three Sunday Business Post reports explain

October 5th - the bank crisis explained

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS+FEATURES-qqqm=nav-qqqid=36477-qqqx=1.asp

October 26th - Iceland as a "terrorist economy"

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=WORLD-qqqs=news-qqqid=37012-qqqx=1.asp

December 28th - Iceland in Meltdown

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=WORLD-qqqm=nav-qqqid=38418-qqqx=1.asp

This concludes:

Quote :

In late November, the rescue package was announced. The IMF facility was worth $2.7 billion, and it has been topped up by a further $2.3 billion from a group of Nordic countries. Finally, another $5 billion was guaranteed from Britain and Holland to cover the Ice save positions. The combined total was about equal to the country’s entire GDP.

After years of what seemed to be stable growth, Icelanders are now seeing strict financial controls on government spending, inevitably leading to tax rises and cuts in services. As more details of cosy deals between a small group of Icelandic businessmen and the government’s inaction emerge, a growing number of Icelanders have begun to call for a change in government. They are also calling for a referendum on the terms of the IMF bailout package.

At the heart of the matter, Icelanders are hurting. Interest rates are at 18 per cent, inflation is set to break 20 per cent in the new year, and unemployment, previously as close to nil as you could get, is now at 5.7 per cent - and rising. Many have put their savings in high-yielding money market accounts which, it has emerged, were full of junk bonds issued by companies with links to the banks and their owners.

Many of these accounts are now closed. Others, with the encouragement of the banks, borrowed money to buy shares. All they are left with now are worthless share certificates and unrepayable debt.

With the banks calling in loans, virtually every business in the country is suffering - and more layoffs are projected for the new year. Moreover, there is a real and justifiable fear that this is just the beginning. In their anger, some Icelanders have displayed a rarely-seen militancy. Eggs have been thrown, banners have been flown from the parliament building, a sit-in has been staged at the offices of the central bank, a police station raided, a bank’s offices occupied and tear gas and batons used to quell demonstrators.

There is a palpable desire to find and punish the culprits who caused the crisis. The government has been perceived as slow to act in investigating the matter, and there is a growing suspicion that old family ties, conflicts of interest and political opportunism are preventing the truth coming out and the perpetrators being identified. This only adds fuel to an already raging fire.

Change is in the air. Old political, family and commercial alliances are seen by many as the root of the problem, and it is not until they have been removed that Iceland can begin to pull itself out of its deep crisis.

There is evidently a toxic relationships crisis, as well as a toxic credit crisis: what these articles don't question is what are the fundamental economic causes of the international crash.

More from Iceland - Reykjavik just before Christmas

Quote :

On the ground floor of one of Reykjavik’s gleaming office buildings, a well-dressed crowd shuffles and waits. Tinny Christmas songs blare from a small hi-fi by the door.

As numbers are called out one by one, people file into the next room where rudimentary shelves are filled with free tins, fish, clothes, books and wrapping paper.

2,500 people have applied for Christmas relief packages from Iceland’s three main charities in recent weeks, a 30 per cent rise on last year, as growing numbers of the middle class lose their jobs in the wake of Iceland’s banking collapse.

Jon Omar Gunnarsson, a pastor at Hallgrimskirkja, Reykjavik’s main church, says applications to the Church Aid group have doubled.

“It’s mostly middle class people who have all these obligations, mortgages that are going up, many are losing their jobs ... they just can’t carry the burden alone,” he says.

Iceland is still reverberating after its economy crumpled in October in the face of global financial turmoil.

Inflation and interest rates are both at 18 per cent as the country struggles to shore up its currency, which plunged after its three banks collapsed. It has borrowed $10bn from the International Monetary Fund and others which it needs to repay, meaning taxes are rising even as recession deepens.

The charities believe more people need help but are too ashamed to ask.

“We should just forget about Christmas, just cancel it,” says Sigridur, 57, waiting for her number to be called.

“My husband lost his job, I don’t have one either – I am recovering from cancer. We cannot even pay for the house.”

Sigridur and her husband are considering moving to Norway where there are jobs in construction. “We would just post the house key back to the bank.”

Asa, 44, will give her children Christmas presents provided by charity this year. “You have to take off your pride,” she says. “It’s very difficult to do it.

“There will be a lot of people who leave this country, just go away. Think of the future here for the children. When they are 95 they will still be paying for this.”

Although growing, the number of people needing food aid is still small. Many of those who have lost their jobs will continue to get paid until February. The government, which owns the three main banks, has promised mortgage holidays for people who cannot meet repayments. But even those who have not been badly hit are changing their lifestyles. This Christmas, people are giving each other books, home-made trinkets and practical presents such as warm socks.

Last year’s must-haves, flat screen televisions and games consoles, are on the list of things people here call “so 2007”.

For many, Christmas brings a welcome distraction from the crisis. But others find it impossible to get into the seasonal spirit.

Sitting in an old fisherman’s cafe by the port, Orn Svavarsson shakes with rage. He sold his health food business three years ago when he was 54 and, like many of his countrymen, put the money into the stock market. It has been wiped out.

“The Icelandic people are too lazy,” he says. “Why don’t we go to the airport and block it until we get answers?

“For the first time in my life I have sympathy with the Bolsheviks; with the French revolutionaries who put up the guillotine.”

Financial Times 2008

Just with regard to the IMF loan to Iceland, I visited the IMF website and found that they blame the Icelandic problem on the privatisation of the banks from 2003.

Lo and behold, in 2003, they were urging Iceland to privatise the banks

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pn/2003/pn03105.htm

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2008/INT111908A.htm

First day back after Christmas break for Icelandic parliament and this is what they get - a noisy demonstration around the Parliament building until riot police use pepper spray on the demonstrators.

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