I am a Moonie

ibis wrote:

I've said this before, I think - I've looked at the rocks brought back from the Moon under the microscope, and an uncle of mine attended nearly all the launches and retrievals in person during the heyday of the Lunar landings. I don't have any respect for this kind of loonie "scepticism" - it's scepticism for the sake of it, and probably medically significant.

But then, I'm probably part of the conspiracy, hey?

Almost certainly.

This photograph does look suspiciously like one of Audi's shots of West Clare on winter's afternoon.

What has the fact that your uncle attended the launchs and retrievals to do with anything. You can not be that silly. Did your uncle just assume that because it lifted off like the others it went to the moon. Tell him the shuttle goes to the moon as well next time you see him.

What did you see in the microscope that showed the rock came from the moon. Was it made of cheese.

cactus

West Clare is bog, East Clare is trees / big hills, North Clare looks like your photo alright

Don't let youngdan see that ...

Send over one of the rocks and a microscope to Ibis and tell him it is from the the planet Ork. He believes everything.

If it is possible to land a microlight in a strong cross wind in Patagonia landing that vehicle on the moon with less gravity and no atmosphere would be a doodle.

I think you need to take up a new hobby like paragliding. What this character is trying is REALLY difficult and dangerous, It goes on a bit and he makes it look easy, but landing on top of a mountain is definitely not recommended. Moon landing easy by comparison.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2c_wO_c0Qho&NR=1

Time to call in an expert.

I had to stop watching that Squire, I had an attack of vertigo

That is a crock of shite if ever I saw some. Why is there no sceptic there asking him the obvious quustions. I am surprised that you Squire would refer this. It said that Armstrong was filmed by a camera at the end of an extended boom. What a joke. Where is the boom and is it worked by hydralics or is it by magic. This is worse than shite Squire and if you believe that C is a hair then I will stop reading your excellent posts

Getting back to reality NASA are now doing studies on the problem of the radiation in preparation for an attempt to go to the moon in 2025. http://www.nsbri.org/NewsPublicOut/Release.epl?r=95

This is where we are at today. We can listen and read what NASA is saying. http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/lunarshield_techwed_050112.html

This above is from 2005 and when the question of the astronauts surviving the radiation is brought up the answer is they were lucky. Lucky my whole and anyone that believes it would need their head examined.

youngdan wrote:

What has the fact that your uncle attended the launchs and retrievals to do with anything. You can not be that silly. Did your uncle just assume that because it lifted off like the others it went to the moon. Tell him the shuttle goes to the moon as well next time you see him.

What did you see in the microscope that showed the rock came from the moon. Was it made of cheese.

No interest. The discussion is a complete waste of time.

Cactus

It does go on and on. The wind conditions close up to
mountains and cliffs are very unpredictable and on top you tend to get
fairly strong winds. Not good landing conditions if you are attached to
a kite, real risk of being dragged off the edge or being hit by a down draft. Mad stunt.

YoungDan

Lack of atmosphere makes landing any vehicle a lot more predictable, but the big difficulty in this case is you haven't a clue what you are landing on. Bad enough trying to land in a field.

I have met Patrick Moore, he is definitely not the sort to go along with some cover up. More than a bit over enthusiastic on issues relating to space, he exudes enthusiasm. He has some crazy political views, but generally my impression of him is that he is basically an intelligent, honest man consumed by his interest. He is not afraid to voice very unpopular opinions and take a stand. He says exactly what he thinks, you can forget concepts of political correctness.

Played about in darkrooms at school and no hair I have ever seen looks like that C. It is reasonably sharp so I would imagine it would need to be held flat with the negetative. Even false eyelashes are not that curved, bits of wool come close but are thinner and no where near as regular. Pubic hair perhaps, mind boggles. To me that explanation is utter bunk. The shadows etc. quite possible land form and shadows can be very deceptive on photographs.

There are 4 major problems related to future space travel;
1 We can't get material up into space cheaply enough.
2 We cant travel fast enough and if we did slowing down would be fun.
3 Radiation is an major problem. If there is a sun flare you will be cooked in about 8 minutes 20 seconds of it happening. We can't predict our own weather so guessing sun flares is well beyond our ability and shielding against then is not that easy.
4 Lack of gravity and weakening of our skeleton.

IMO our technology is nowhere near at the level needed for reliable space flight and long space missions. We really haven't properly put our minds to the problems. Even experiments we have had with sealed biospheres have been lamentable.

That said if we do get off this planet the moon will have considerable strategic significance and if we do get to that sort of proficiency there is a lot of scope once you are up there. Bet there is gold in the asteroids!

With the current economic mess perhaps the new deal will be space related! If it is not I think progress will be slow and be related to communications and military expenditure.

Squire do you really trust Patrick Moore ? He published a book on Mars in 1955 where some of his themes are founded on the supposition that "dark areas" on Mars were really swathes of vegetation .. How does a scientist like him make such a massive assumption ? This is the Editiorial Review of his book on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Patrick-Moore-Mars/dp/1841880043

Around the time of the release of the REM song I had no problem thinking it was a cul-de-sac argument to pursue this moon fakery line but now maybe I'm more bored and looking for a bit of trouble but I think it's not unhealthy to question it.

It'd be nice to see some photos of the remnants of the equipment on the surface if it still exists. Amateur astronomers take photos of the ISS and docking shuttle which is 250 miles up there. This is one below


http://cosmicviews.blogspot.com/2006/09/amazing-photo-of-shuttle-and-iss.html

Why did you bother telling us about your uncle then because millions watched the blastoffs

That is a great photo from 400 km. The Indian craft is 100 km and no atmosphere so we should be able to see if there are parking tickets on the rovers. The Indians expect to put a robot on the moon by 2012 and a man by 2015. They at least are rational and will see if a robot survives a landing not to mention a takeoff. Numerous craft have crashed onto Mars even with the advantage of a parachute.

I don't know this Moore but I take it he is a news reader on space back in the old days. Did BBC air this

There is an old saying about being a rocket scientist but as luck would have it I knowledgeable in this field as part of an engineering degree. I would no more do what they supposedly did by trying to slow down and land using a rocket than I would go over the Niagra Falls without a barrell and expect to survive. However it is the radiation I have prevented flights above low Earth orbit now 35 years and counting.

This news report from NASA is a few months old and tells us that the launch of this vehicle is next April. It lists amongst it's functions to locate suitable landing sites and do radiation tests. Reading this it is clear that they have never been to the moon much less brought back a stone for Ibis to look at.

It would not surprise me if the coverup was admited in the next administration with the excuse of national security. Either way by next Spring we will have close up pictures from eother the Indians or the Americans

youngdan wrote:

That is a great photo from 400 km. The Indian craft is 100 km and no atmosphere so we should be able to see if there are parking tickets on the rovers. The Indians expect to put a robot on the moon by 2012 and a man by 2015. They at least are rational and will see if a robot survives a landing not to mention a takeoff. Numerous craft have crashed onto Mars even with the advantage of a parachute.

I don't know this Moore but I take it he is a news reader on space back in the old days. Did BBC air this

There is an old saying about being a rocket scientist but as luck would have it I knowledgeable in this field as part of an engineering degree. I would no more do what they supposedly did by trying to slow down and land using a rocket than I would go over the Niagra Falls without a barrell and expect to survive. However it is the radiation I have prevented flights above low Earth orbit now 35 years and counting.

This news report from NASA is a few months old and tells us that the launch of this vehicle is next April. It lists amongst it's functions to locate suitable landing sites and do radiation tests. Reading this it is clear that they have never been to the moon much less brought back a stone for Ibis to look at.

It would not surprise me if the coverup was admited in the next administration with the excuse of national security. Either way by next Spring we will have close up pictures from eother the Indians or the Americans

Why are conspiracy theorists all bitter, bad-tempered and paranoid?

If that is all you have to say, go fluck off

Audi

My opinion of Patrick Moore is that he is exceedingly honest and on matters relating to anything above our atmosphere extremely well informed. You have to remember back in 1955 there were valves in radios. He was speculating and that seems to be a family tradition, his mother had a strange taste in painting.The old codger says exactly what he thinks, if he thought some swindle was afoot he would be incandescent. I don't think he would mind admitting to being had on a scam, pride would not get in the way of the truth. He readily admits that some of his early speculations were well off the mark. However enthusiasm can blind. If there is a weakness then that is where it is.


YoundDan

Patrick Moore is the presenter of The Sky at Night and is the longest running presenter on television. IMO From a presentation point of view it is all a bit amateurish, but lack of ubiquitous floosie presenter is no loss as the people on the programme actually have a good grasp of the subject. About the best programme the BBC have ever produced. They deal succinctly with current theories on space related issues. They may prove correct or incorrect and as our knowledge increases you can see many a U turn and they readily admit mistakes. Below is their web site, and good archive of previous programmes. Doubtless in time much will prove wrong, but it is a joy to listen to for it gives an insight into the human mind trying to puzzle out problems that are literally off this world. It is short, and tries to make the research understandable for the average person. They take scraps of evidence and start to postulate. There is no aggressive interrogation so they can wax lyrically about their theories.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/skyatnight/

It is interesting just how varied and unpredictable space actually is. 30 years ago who would have been guessed what the moons of Jupiter would be like.

Time will tell the truth of this. I have every confidence in the Indians. They would just love prove this a scam. It would come out in a very apologetic and non sensational manner almost as though it was their fault for not finding evidence. When you start to hear them say that they are so far unable to confirm sighting you will know there was a game afoot. The Indians understate! If it is a fraud I would congratulate those responsible, the scale and beauty of it has to be admired, but as a species we do tend to take extreme risk from time to time until the Health and Safety bores and accountants get involved. If it was a scam those involved in the current fraud would be utter armatures by comparison.

Time will tell. As I posted on the other thread a minute ago, the Indians are being set up for a hiding and hopefully they are not stupid enough to attack Pakistan. Pakistan is targeted for breakup as I said months ago but the Indians could never fall for the bait could they.

This whole thing will be shown to have happened or to have been faked before too long not like say JFK. The American craft lifts off in April and we will find out.

In the meantime I will check out those shows as the BBC is great. Looking at the part about the C though it looked as if the area of rock was made fussy. Just relook at the segment and tell me there is not a circular fussy spot

Papal Knight wrote:

Why are conspiracy theorists all bitter, bad-tempered and paranoid?

When on a campaign of disagreement, please try to start at the top of this triangle. Thanks.

YoungDan

I don't buy the hair hypothesis and agree it does look blurred and doctored. If that is fake it is a poor job as even I could do better. They should have went to one of those merchants out East who can do you up very credible false documents overnight. What I like about the Sky at Night is it makes the subject approachable for many and is ideal for school children who have a bit of interest. In fact get a group of school children and Patrick together and I guarantee they will come away inspired he really exudes enthusiasm. Wish there were more like him.

Must hunt out the India thread may be spending Christmas there. Have been hanging around waiting for the dust to clear for too long.

EDIT
Meant to add there are two possible subjects that come out of this that may be worth threads on their own.
1 How easy it is to pull a con trick on people and conversely how difficult it is to be utterly candid and present something with no spin.
2 That all Empires implode due to the pursuit of the self interests of a few.

Squire wrote:

YoungDan

I don't buy the hair hypothesis and agree it does look blurred and doctored. If that is fake it is a poor job as even I could do better. They should have went to one of those merchants out East who can do you up very credible false documents overnight. What I like about the Sky at Night is it makes the subject approachable for many and is ideal for school children who have a bit of interest. In fact get a group of school children and Patrick together and I guarantee they will come away inspired he really exudes enthusiasm. Wish there were more like him.

Must hunt out the India thread may be spending Christmas there. Have been hanging around waiting for the dust to clear for too long.

EDIT
Meant to add there are two possible subjects that come out of this that may be worth threads on their own.
1 How easy it is to pull a con trick on people and conversely how difficult it is to be utterly candid and present something with no spin.
2 That all Empires implode due to the pursuit of the self interests of a few.

Squire, I may only setting myself up for a scare, but we are due maybe for a "big picture" thread on what is happening. I fear war coming, one way or another. Perhaps there is no way of stopping it.

Same with yourself, youngdan: I missed what you said about India and Pakistan. It is off topic here, but I would very much like to hear it on the India thread if you have time to post it there.

Far be it for me to put it in an India thread. I put it in the yanks and guns thread where I was talking about NDS getting laid with the American soldier.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Papal Knight wrote:

Why are conspiracy theorists all bitter, bad-tempered and paranoid?

When on a campaign of disagreement, please try to start at the top of this triangle. Thanks.

You miss my point. I was commenting on their general approach. They make a statement that some generally accepted fact is not a fact at all, not based on objective evidence but usually based on something they find on youtube on a conspiracy theorist website. Any attempt to debate the facts with them fails because they state as fact that facts are wrong and they are the ones with the true facts. When challenged they accuse everyone else of being too dumb to realise the government or someone had hoodwinked them, and when challenged again end up implying that they have superior knowledge that everyone else is too dumb to grasp, to gullible not to realise is the real truth, or are part of the conspiracy themselves.

I read the thread and Dan's posts exactly echoed the normal approach I find elsewhere from conspiracy theorists. His posts were aggressive, unhelpful displayed the usual conspiracy theorists' superiority complex. I was simply commenting on what I have found overwhelmingly to be the nature of conspiracy theorists' posts - that they usually are quite bitter, get very bad-tempered, and end up paranoid. They have little in the way of substance of evidence, and usually involve a tone of 'don't you realise you are being lied to by the powers that be? Are you too dumb to realise they are making fools of you.'?

I have twice in my life been at things that conspiracy theories later developed about. I have heard years of conspiracy theories about the events. Yet the conspiracy theorists are so fanatical that even when I can say with absolute cast-iron certainty they are wrong and can offer absolute proof they are wrong they still insist, on the basis of some nutter's youtube video, that they are right and everyone there who saw what really happened is wrong, or part of some conspiracy involving vast numbers of people.

I was simply commenting on what I find is the standard nature of conspiracy theorists' contributions to threads here and elsewhere. Dan's claims had been shown to be wrong by other posters, but as is usual with conspiracy theorists he just bulldozed on regardless.

Listen you half wit, point out an example of me being bitter and paranoid. I am delighted with the way things are going and have profited handsomely. The worse things get the more money is made.

I am bad tempered with fools like you. Go to another thread if this subject does not interest you.

youngdan wrote:

Listen you half wit, point out an example of me being bitter and paranoid. I am delighted with the way things are going and have profited handsomely. The worse things get the more money is made.

I am bad tempered with fools like you. Go to another thread if this subject does not interest you.

Your post is a classic example of you being bitter and paranoid. True to form, your response to criticism is to call a critic a "half wit" and a "fool". That is part of the course in terms of how conspiracy theorists react to any criticism.

Only you are being addressed as a fool. The regular readers here know that for almost a year now I have differed on every subject almost with 905 and Ibis. I consider neither of these two posters as anything less than well informed posters who happen to have drawn different conclusions than I.

You say I am bitter, well I am as happy as could be. If you can show an example of me being bitter do it or else just go to another topic