I am a Moonie

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Jesus, where do I start.

This thread has gone from bad to worse, but I'll have one last stab at it.

The process of landing on the moon is fairly straight forward.

You start out with a huge rocket engine, an even bigger fuel tank fully loaded, maybe some solid rocket boosters if it's a shuttle, and a bit stuck on the top or side to carry people.

You turn the thing on, light it up, put the pedal to the metal and off ye go.

Straight up at first, to get out of the heavier atmosphere, which is costly on fuel because of drag. So you want to get out of it as quickly as possible. Common sense really.

About 4 nautical miles up comes the roll. This is to point the ship in the direction of the earths rotation. You want to end up flying at a tangent to earths equatorial plane, not perpendicular to it. The plan is to be in orbit, not flying away into space. There's a good reason for that, which I may or may not mention further down.

Listen to the youtubes of the shuttle launches and you'll hear the capcom guy quoting altitude and downstream figures. Downstream means nautical miles from launch pad. Try writing down the numbers and plotting them against time, it's fairly obvious it's not a straight line shot.

In fact it's a curve shot.All designed to get the ship into a Low Earth Orbit (LEO) .

A LEO is an orbit around earth at about 300Km above the surface. That's where the International Space Station is and has been for some time, so I doubt it's existence can be denied. By anyone.

Anyway, there you are sitting on top of your rocket, rolled over, accelerating to ...well what ?

Well, to a position of balance between centripetal and centrifugal forces. As there is now a rotating frame of reference, centrifufal forces do exist. Ignore the pseudo force babble for the moment.

Gravity is pulling you in(centripetal), your speed going in a circle is pulling you out(centrifugal).

LEO balance is achieved quite nicely if you, in your rocket get to 300Km above the surface while at the same time accelerating to 28,000 kmh. Thats 7.7 Km per second. Very fast.

Which brings me back to the massive fuel tanks.

Most of this fuel was expended, not in achieving this altitude, but in reaching this velocity. And remember that a lot of fuel was expended in lifting the fuel itself. Fuel to lift fuel. And fuel to lift BIG engines to burn fuel you're lifting.

Anyway, you're now in LEO, and you can see the ISS through your windscreen, but those lads are doing 28,000 Kmh too, so no need to worry about them jamming on the brakes.

But those lads are going nowhere, just hanging out in space. You, however, have bigger plans.

According to most websites, and probably most authorities on space and planetary mechanics, Hohmann developed the low energy transit or transfer orbit back in 1925. Apparently some Russian came to the same conclusions about the same time. Or earlier. Who cares.

The way this works is that while you are at a particular point in your boring circular LEO, you turn the engines on for a wee bit. Say 29 seconds. Remember you are much lighter now having left all that fuel and rockets and engines behind.

Google SRB Separation. Shed the weight as early as possible.

So now you weigh 10% of what you were on the launchpad. Still bombing around the earth at 28,000 Kmh.

Enter the Delta-V as the Yanks call it.It's a fuel supplied thrust to increase the velocity from 7.7Km/s to about 10 Km/s. This takes an awful lot less energy than one would imagine, Remember, you are in an atmosphere free zone now.

The effect of this is a bit like a cowboy trying to catch a cow with a noose. As the rope goes towards the cow, he lets the rope out, as the rope comes back, he pulls it in. Funny thing is, the angular velocity of the rope is not constant.

As the noose swings over the cows head, it is travelling at it's slowest. As he pulls the rope in for another swing, it accelerates, reaching maximum speed behind his head.

Really, the world is inundated with examples of these everyday newtonian effects. I can't even believe I am writing this shite.


Anyway where was I.

Oh yes. Easy on that throttle now. Careful not to go too fast, Don't want to end up in infinity. Which is most likely where you will end up if you accelerate to escape velocity.

That's why it's called ESCAPE VELOCITY.

After the burn, the orbit changes. About a 30% kinetic energy increase does it. Engines off. Enjoy the ride. 200,000 miles of earth getting smaller.


Now, if the lads in Houston have done their sums, just as you get to r2, the gorgeous Moon will be passing by.

And the record shows the lads at Houston can do sums.And nobody can deny that.

You need to get ready for second burn now.

You are coming into the moons earth orbit almost perpendicularly. You need to be tangential. Because you wan to be in a local lunar orbit.

Calm down too, because even though you are right beside the moon, you are still in an earth orbit. Oh yes. Not just that, you are at the Apogee or apocentre of that orbit. Your velocity will be not the 10Km/s when you left LEO, more like 1.5 Kmh/s.

Nearly there.

Oh OOOOOO. Big problem. You want to walk on the moon, but Mother Earth says NO. You are on an earth orbit, so you are coming straight back to earth.No Buts.

Enter Delta-v2 second burn.
Sorry, don't want to continue on this earth orbit, want to stay out here with the moon for a while.

Earth says : Tough shit. You ARE coming back. I'm orbiting you.

You : Well, I've got an engine, and fuel, and I'm turnig them on for 13 seconds

Earth: Righteo, You know what you are doing. Just don't sue me

As I stated before , you can orbit the moon as low as you like, if you don't mind getting regolith in your face.

Getting from 60 nautical miles above the moon to the surface simply involves slowing one part of the vehicle by a few kmh.

The centrifugal reduction will draw the bit you slowed down towards the surface. You are falling onto the moon.

But falling slowly. This is where the myths come from. It's not a cannon shot. It's a parachute jump.

Getting home is even easier.You just have to ensure you speed up relative to the moon, and slow down relative to earth. y doing this you will fall back to earth on the path that was originally planned by the mathematics of god, dinosaurs and whatever.

The moon is very far away. But the Pyramids are big and the Wall of China is long.

Frankly, I disbelieve the wall of China more than the moon landings. I disbelieve the Pyramids more also. And I could go and look at them if I wished.But I could not be arsed. Because I just know....

And that's just Apollo 11

Subsequently, the USA put men on the moon 5 more times. Apollo 12, 14, 15, 16, and finally Apollo 17 around about now in 1972.

EOF. 0x0a 0x0d.

Thank you Evotingmachine0197, lovely post.

Indeed cactus. EVM has closed the case in the emphatic way only he can.

For those who have followed space exploration down through the years there is a very exciting launch coming up. It is an orbitor that will be only 30 miles from the moon surface. It has passed long testing by Goddard and is headed to Florida for a launch on April 24. Here is what NASA reported yesterday.

http://sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20081222/DC5421522122008-1.html

It among other things will study radiation and pick out safe lanfing area for a landing which will be attempted by 2020.

Nobody is rude enough to ask would the radiation not be the same as it was 40 years ago.

This is the stage where the attempt to go to the moon in reality is at and I look forward to this event eagerly.


A few days ago I read an interesting article about radiation with comments from NASA saying that had a big solar flare occured when the astronauts were on the moon they would be killed instantly. The craft set for launch will study for a year the radiation reaching the moon.

This soviet guy says he is going blind from the radiation he got. He was up there for a long time but he was in low earth orbit and therefore shielded to a good extent. Judge for yourself the dangers of the radiation

http://www.examiner.com/x-504-Space-News-Examiner~y2008m12d20-Cosmonaut-says-space-radiation-is-causing-him-to-go-blind

Location of the reflector landing sites




http://www.physics.ucsd.edu/~tmurphy/apollo/basics.html

The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, due for launch in Spring 2009 will make detailed 3-d maps of the moon
and will show what remains of the moon expeditions.
http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/mission.html

Did I just not post the exact same information

I see Paddy Power is offering odds on events to happen first in Obama's term. It is 50/1 that he announces that the moonwalk was a hoax.

This is an excellent bet and I am putting 50 euros on it. Of course noone here has the balls to cover another 50.

youngdan wrote:

I see Paddy Power is offering odds on events to happen first in Obama's term. It is 50/1 that he announces that the moonwalk was a hoax.

This is an excellent bet and I am putting 50 euros on it. Of course noone here has the balls to cover another 50.

Happy Christmas Dan. And apologies for my bad language in 2008. I hope you know that I meant no bad vibes there.

Link for Paddy Power ? You want me to bet 50 to win 1 Euro ? There is a trade-off between balls and sense you know.

Do you have the balls to throw 50 euros off the Prudential Tower, youngdan? You have about the same chance of seeing a return.

I still don't know what the bet is ?

Feeling better Johnfás ?

I think he is betting 50 euro that the moon landing never happened. Feel a little better, typing from bed with a nice mug of lemsip. Should be ok by tomorrow. Still braved the sales this morning and bought a new pair of shoes... there is something very satisfying about getting a new pair of shoes.

johnfás wrote:

I think he is betting 50 euro that the moon landing never happened. Feel a little better, typing from bed with a nice mug of lemsip. Should be ok by tomorrow. Still braved the sales this morning and bought a new pair of shoes... there is something very satisfying about getting a new pair of shoes.

Moon walkie shoes ?

Cant't wait to see this bet in Pady Power. I'll make a fortune.

And best wishes to you EVM, all debate, and even better rank argument, is greatly enjoyed. There is a poster called Antaginizer over yonder but there are a few here too working undercover.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&category=SPECIALS&ev_class_id=33&ev_type_id=10628&promo=nov_PresidentObamaSpecials&crea=lnk&novelty=1

A few interesting wagers. This is why he is a multimillionaire by offering 50/1 to grab my 50 euro. Many will put a few pound on this wager.

I must congratulate you EVM on this site. To bring it to where it is was a great achievement I feel and some have opined to me that it could grow. I will keep my fingers crossed.

Best wishes to one and all.

The bet is that Obama will announce that the moonwalk was a hoax. He will pay 50 to 1 or 2500 to my 50.

Would you though? Surely you would be dependent on Obama coming out and saying the moon landing didn't happen in order to win... which is unlikely because it is so obvious. Net result is that anyone who makes either bet will lose their money.

If Obama never mentions the moon you lose. That is why it is called gambling.

youngdan wrote:

And best wishes to you EVM, all debate, and even better rank argument, is greatly enjoyed. There is a poster called Antaginizer over yonder but there are a few here too working undercover.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&category=SPECIALS&ev_class_id=33&ev_type_id=10628&promo=nov_PresidentObamaSpecials&crea=lnk&novelty=1

A few interesting wagers. This is why he is a multimillionaire by offering 50/1 to grab my 50 euro. Many will put a few pound on this wager.

I must congratulate you EVM on this site. To bring it to where it is was a great achievement I feel and some have opined to me that it could grow. I will keep my fingers crossed.

Best wishes to one and all.

The bet is that Obama will announce that the moonwalk was a hoax. He will pay 50 to 1 or 2500 to my 50.

Or 10 Dollars to my $500 bet , if I bet my way. Forget it .

Thanks for the kind words about the site Dan. It was Audi, Cactus Flower and KateP that really made this site...

And the opinings are correct. The site will grow. No doubt about that.

Power looks upon the 10 dollars as free money. He tosses out long odds like fishing. They rarely pay. However Obama was 50/1 when he announced. I wish I had 50 on that.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

youngdan wrote:

And best wishes to you EVM, all debate, and even better rank argument, is greatly enjoyed. There is a poster called Antaginizer over yonder but there are a few here too working undercover.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&category=SPECIALS&ev_class_id=33&ev_type_id=10628&promo=nov_PresidentObamaSpecials&crea=lnk&novelty=1

A few interesting wagers. This is why he is a multimillionaire by offering 50/1 to grab my 50 euro. Many will put a few pound on this wager.

I must congratulate you EVM on this site. To bring it to where it is was a great achievement I feel and some have opined to me that it could grow. I will keep my fingers crossed.

Best wishes to one and all.

The bet is that Obama will announce that the moonwalk was a hoax. He will pay 50 to 1 or 2500 to my 50.

Or 10 Dollars to my $500 bet , if I bet my way. Forget it .

Thanks for the kind words about the site Dan. It was Audi, Cactus Flower and KateP that really made this site...

And the opinings are correct. The site will grow. No doubt about that.

Without a raft to bob around on in the waves of the interweb, we would have sunk without trace, Evm.

johnfás wrote:

I think he is betting 50 euro that the moon landing never happened. Feel a little better, typing from bed with a nice mug of lemsip. Should be ok by tomorrow. Still braved the sales this morning and bought a new pair of shoes... there is something very satisfying about getting a new pair of shoes.

Warm dry feet, I find.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/000200812301121.htm

Another good article and they will be releasing some much anticipated photos. There is a Japanese craft up there which has photographed the Apollo 17 landing site. The camera has a 10 meter resolution. The Indian one has a 5 meter resolution. The American one in April will orbit at 50 km whereas the Indian one orbits at 100km.

So there will soon be one less conspiracy theory to worry about

youngdan wrote:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/000200812301121.htm

Another good article and they will be releasing some much anticipated photos. There is a Japanese craft up there which has photographed the Apollo 17 landing site. The camera has a 10 meter resolution. The Indian one has a 5 meter resolution. The American one in April will orbit at 50 km whereas the Indian one orbits at 100km.

So there will soon be one less conspiracy theory to worry about

I see no suggestion there that they are remotely interested in the US landing.

Who