I am a Moonie

What did I tell ye, at the end of the interview they said that the astronaut was taking a risk by talking. He will be taking a bigger risk if he starts talking about the moon. I will get more on this later

I've watched too much of the X-Files to know that he won't be knocked off pretty soon by a bollox in a Mac, just as it's getting good.

Here is the Kerrang interview with him - it is pretty mad. For those who can't open youtube but want to, it's much the same as youngdan's newspaper link above except that you hear the fair amount of shock and disbelief in the interviewers voice to whom it probably doesn't come as much of a surprise because Edgar Mitchell has been saying such stuff for quite a while it seems because there are tons of youtube clips of him saying this.

He also says there will be some sort of disclosure soon so "watch the press".

http://www.tv.com/video/Bro1jbHCkUj5i2ox0_uwdhBRwlkMjQlm/101/5861/one-way-to-the-moon?o=hulu&category=all&tag=showspace;video;8

This here is the 3rd episode in the tv seies The Time Tunnel. It was aired in September 1966. The stoty line is that 2 scientists are being hurled through time and each week find themselves in a tight spot. In this episode they are in the future after finding themselves on board a spaceship to Mars which due to the extra weight must now land on the moon.

This was a good show and every episode is worth watching for a good hours entertainment. I have them on dvd.

If you watch at about 24 minutes you will see them landing on the moon. You will see that it bears a remarkable similarity to what was shown 3 years later as the real thing.

It is magic I tell ya, just magic.

Dan, do you get Discovery Channel ?

I did until I got rid of cable and reverted to the rabbitear antenae on the top of the tv. I get about 15 stations of HD. a money saver but more importantly no more having my wife watch Bill O Reilly. Fox is not too bad but he is intolerable and Miller who he gives 5 minutes to is even more intolerable in the extreme.

I am back to this topic as a few weeks ago India got a satelite into orbit arround the moon. I think it is about 100 km off the surface and it's mission is to map the surface over 2 years. I am thinking that it should be able to see objects that are pretty small with this height. You can see the Great Wall of China from higher in space with the unaided eye or so I read somewhere.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7718015.stm

I will be waiting to see a picture of a luner rover parked beside a lander. It would surely make a great picture would it not.

Can't quite believe that people here still don't think it happened. It's all down to that bloody Elliott Gould Mars film, Capricorn One, I reckon...

Well I don't believe it. I think that anyone that believes that a multi-ton craft can be decelerated to make a gentle landing using rockets should try it to see how they fare out.

youngdan wrote:

Well I don't believe it. I think that anyone that believes that a multi-ton craft can be decelerated to make a gentle landing using rockets should try it to see how they fare out.

I have neither the money nor the brains to attempt such a course, so I'll rely on my blind faith in the words of others...

Well we are living in an age where blind faith in the words of others is the gameplan of 110 million back here anyway.

youngdan wrote:

Well I don't believe it. I think that anyone that believes that a multi-ton craft can be decelerated to make a gentle landing using rockets should try it to see how they fare out.

Lunar gravity is 1/6th that of the earth - it would not be a multi-ton vehicle

DeGaulle wrote:

youngdan wrote:

Well I don't believe it. I think that anyone that believes that a multi-ton craft can be decelerated to make a gentle landing using rockets should try it to see how they fare out.

Lunar gravity is 1/6th that of the earth - it would not be a multi-ton vehicle

The moon is also about a quarter the size of the earth so it didn't need to travel as far. How much fuel did they need to get this yoke up into orbit though and how fast did it need to be travelling ? (and how did the camera on the moon which filmed the take off follow it upwards ? remote control ? and how did they get the film ? )

Wouldn't they be in a right pickle if one of the legs broke, sank or landed on a boulder.

Having stood beside a replica of this thing at a space museum I can attest that it is large. Unfortunately at the time I was a believer of this fairy tale and did not ask the volumn of the fuel tanks that delivered enough thrust to lift off without a test having been done. If I were an astronaut I would have asked to see a dog being landed and then being returned to an orbitor before I risked my neck.

While this scam pregressed space technology went ahead. Six years later in 1975 we saw the Apollo-Soyus docking. Everyone held their breath while the two craft came together. The danger was that damage would be done to either craft in the bump.

The two craft were traveling with respect to each other at a snail's pace but still the momentum caused concern. The gravity in this situation was zero.

Yet people believe this baby was gently lowered to the ground with a gravity of 1/6g pulling on it.

It ties into my oft said opinion that people will believe anything.

I have to say I'm sceptical about the sceptics youngdan, but I will check out the video finally this weekend.

If anything makes me suspicious it would be the complete halt that occurred in manned space travel - to the moon in the 1970s and then the never attempted trips to Mars.

I was born in the 1970s and grew up in the aftermath of 1969. As a kid I wanted to be an astronaut and had books that said that by 1990 we would have not only landed on Mars but have set up a colony on the moon. This, if true saddens me and the kid in me deep down. I'm like a religious fundamentalist confronting science. I dont want to know as the truth will make me feel bad.

PS. I remember time tunnel. Great series.

I am intrigued with the Indian satelite. It is 100 km high. I am about 20 km from Boston and can easily see the buildings and reckon I could easily see a car if there was one on the roof.

Has anyone been say 100 km from the eiffel tower and is it visable to the unaided eye. Unless the Indians are stupid they have a good camera and until I read otherwise I must conclude that they can see small objects.

I consider this to be the most important question facing mankind today. Were it to come out that it was faked who would believe governments anymore. As the Indian and Chinese space programs proceed it is only a matter of time till they either attempt a moon landing or announce that it is impossible with present technology not to mind technology of 40 years ago.

Of course if the Indian satelite happened to malfunction or if India collapsed we would have to wait longer.

The time tunnel video clip only needs to be examined at minute 24 for the purpose of this discussion but it is a great show in it,s own right

There was a program on TV this week about the history of the earth, and about how the moon was created by an impact on earth by another planet, Thea. The moon is apparently travelling away from the earth at about 3cm per year. One of the ways that they know this is that the very last part of the whole lunar project is that someone somewhere in Texas rides a motorcycle up to his lab every day, fires off a laser at a target left by the Apollo landing team, and calculates the llength of time it takes for the light to return to earth. It would be an extremely elaborate scam if this was just a charade still being kept up nearly 40 years later.

I imagine that it would actually be relatively easy to land a craft on the moon - the point being that there is very little atmosphere and so it should in theory be easy to control - there would be no random elements.

An interesting consequence of the moon moving away from the earth is that tidal power is not infact a permanently renewable resource .

DeGaulle wrote:

An interesting consequence of the moon moving away from the earth is that tidal power is not infact a permanently renewable resource .

Will it break free from earth's gravity at some stage ?

Have you ever seen videos of it being done on Earth to test it first or do you think they never tested and sent the 2 astronauts to attempt it for the first time ever. The Japs had a name for astronauts like that. They called them Kamakazis

youngdan wrote:

Have you ever seen videos of it being done on Earth to test it first or do you think they never tested and sent the 2 astronauts to attempt it for the first time ever. The Japs had a name for astronauts like that. They called them Kamakazis

I haven't posted here in a while but I had to put my two cents in here.
There was this guy in 1960, Joseph Kittinger from the US airforce, who went 30 km into the air in a balloon and jumped out. He was so high he had to wait until the atmosphere thickened up and he decelerated to terminal velocity before he could open his parachute.

That's kamikazi and that's the kind of thing early astronauts were doing.

There are all sorts of risks involved in space flight and I'm sure anyone who goes up there fully understands that something small could go wrong and they're done for.

I'm not convinced the moon landing was faked, but I wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand. There would have been some very good reasons for the US government to make the world think they had such superior technology, and it would have been a good way to channel money for some of their more nefarious activities.

Auditor #9 wrote:

DeGaulle wrote:

An interesting consequence of the moon moving away from the earth is that tidal power is not infact a permanently renewable resource .

Will it break free from earth's gravity at some stage ?

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon
So the Moon is gradually receding from the Earth into a higher orbit, and calculations[2][3] suggest that this will continue for about fifty billion years. By that time, the Earth and Moon will become caught up in what is called a "spin–orbit resonance" in which the Moon will circle the Earth in about 47 days (currently 29 days), and both Moon and Earth will rotate around their axes in the same time, always facing each other with the same side. Beyond this, it is hard to tell what will happen to the Earth–Moon system, considering that the Sun is expected to become a red giant approximately 5 billion years from now.

AfricanDave wrote:

youngdan wrote:

Have you ever seen videos of it being done on Earth to test it first or do you think they never tested and sent the 2 astronauts to attempt it for the first time ever. The Japs had a name for astronauts like that. They called them Kamakazis

I haven't posted here in a while but I had to put my two cents in here.
There was this guy in 1960, Joseph Kittinger from the US airforce, who went 30 km into the air in a balloon and jumped out. He was so high he had to wait until the atmosphere thickened up and he decelerated to terminal velocity before he could open his parachute.

That's kamikazi and that's the kind of thing early astronauts were doing.

There are all sorts of risks involved in space flight and I'm sure anyone who goes up there fully understands that something small could go wrong and they're done for.

I'm not convinced the moon landing was faked, but I wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand. There would have been some very good reasons for the US government to make the world think they had such superior technology, and it would have been a good way to channel money for some of their more nefarious activities.

Is there any air up there at 30km and how long would it take him to fall ? 10 m/s ? A few minutes .. he could do it holding his breath. That's skydiving for you.

DeGaulle

Spin-orbit resonance ? Amazing stuff at that level - I wonder what it means. Will the moon come to rest at a 47-day orbit around this planet ?

I don't think there would be any air. He probably had some kind of breathing aparatus.
I remember reading that he was in free fall for over 4 minutes and reached speeds of over 1000km/h

Test pilots do a lot of things and get killed all the time. That is the whole idea of testing. Do you not think Armstrong would have asked how the tests went before he was to try it on the moon where there would be no plan B if anything went wrong.

Would this inspire confidence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D4GIM2bEbg

Do you believe that.



This is a real rocket craft 40 years later

http://rocketry.wordpress.com/2008/10/24/2008-northrop-grumman-lunar-lander-challenge/

Why wouldn't we believe the lunar test vehicle youngdan ? It looks impressive enough in fairness.

The site just below uses Newton's gravity equation to work out that it takes 22 times more energy to launch material into space from earth than the Moon. So that would mean the volume of fuel would be 1/22nd the volume needed. The escape velocity of the lunar module needs to be 2.38 km/s - that's 2.38 kilometers per second - very hard to imagine the little lunar module achieving that but it would have had to have if it were to escape the moon's gravity. They show the footage of the module ejecting and rising in the other site farther below at the start of the second video. Were they supposed to have pushed the top of the module up with some force from the legs which were left standing as that would have saved them some fuel maybe but getting them up to 2.38 kiilometres per second ... hmm

We'll probably have to wait to see if the Indians take any pictures of the surface.

Quote :

In other words, it takes 22 times more energy to launch material into free space from the Earth than it does from the Moon. So we say that the Earth’s gravity well is 22 times deeper than the “gravity dimple” of the Moon. In reality the benefits of lunar launching are even greater than this ratio since the Moon has no atmospheric drag.

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/lunar/education/learning-guides/escape-from-the-moon

There are some very nice videos on the page here - the first is below. One of them is about escaping out of gravity wells - I'll watch it later.

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/lunar/education/videos-and-demonstrations