Time to throw stuff at the television again...

He isn't a banker, the guy who apologised. Perhaps that is why he apologised so easily . He is a Chartered Accountant who was thrown in to try and sort the place out.

Not over, not under

"What we need is appropriate regulation" - Seán Fitzpatrick

Was there even that ??

Commerical propery exposure in billions
AIB 49
BOI 38
Anglo 59

Possible commercial property loss : 21 bn

Multiply that by 2.

We get 25% of Directors... great power there....

oops

No the figure they gave on the programme was probably 21bn, I'm saying multiply that by 2. The 21bn assumes that there will some level of activity on buying new commercial premises going forward, albeit lower. Where is this economic activity going to come from? There will be so much property on the market from companies going bust that there will be no need for any of the stuff built in the last few years.

johnfás wrote:

No the figure they gave on the programme was probably 21bn, I'm saying multiply that by 2. The 21bn assumes that there is some level of activity on buying new commercial premises, albeit lower. Where is this economic activity going to come from? There will be so much property on the market from companies going bust that there will be no need for any of the stuff built in the last few years.

You can see a lot of grass-infested commercial buildings around Ennis on the Quin road for one place. Ennis is only one spot itself and it'll be an interesting mental puzzle for someone to try to imagine what those places will be used for ...

The oops was because of his slip of the tongue about AIB ... That's a healthy bank isn't it?

There are loads of empty units everywhere, even in the places with easy access to Dublin like Sandyford and places out by the airport.

They've put this around a building in Sandyford. It is specially made and apparently will keep a half built structure in tact for up to 5 years.

Could they be used as places for people to rent at cheap rates or to squat in when they get forked out of their houses next year ?

How much do you think they'll cap the salaries at ? He was severely dodging the question.

Turn them into primary health centres, schools, community halls and anything else with a benefit to the public, that is my opinion on it. I'm sure Ennis could do with a local hall and a new national school.

They should be capped at about 400k.

Did I hear Lenihan call Anlgo's behaviour "Economic Treason"?
That was a phrase used by Dan Boyle earlier today.

According to the IT, John Gormley is now asking for resignations in IL&P.
I hope the Greens use the shock to FF from this latest poll to force Lenihan to take a harder line with the banks.

This is a massive moment for Fianna Fáil with the Good Bank / Bad Bank structure .. Recommended earnestly by Bruton and others, it's very radical, very socialistic, very mature ...

Big moment for Fianna Fáil ...

eoin
I heard it as something Dan Boyle said.

eoinmn wrote:

Did I hear Lenihan call Anlgo's behaviour "Economic Treason"?
That was a phrase used by Dan Boyle earlier today.

No, O'Callaghan quoted it, asked did he agree with the quote and he didn't say he did, but he didn't say he didn't.

The Economist think tank guy is making the most sense.... says sit tight, move with the flow, and watch what other Governments do. He also says our problems are NOT worse than everywhere elses....more property issues, but crucially " less exposure to more exotic financial instruments"

He also said the WORLD's financial system has failed and we will all be affected by this for the rest of our lives

I don't think many would say the short term dangers to the Irish economy are any greater than alot of others. The problem is the longer term picture. The ability of the economy to recover and create new jobs when the global system eventually comes round to some sort of new regime. With no domestic economy or industry to speak of coupled with a cowboy attitude, or a supposed one anyway, to politics, regulation and everything else related to business the question is where will Ireland's recovery come from.

Renewable energy. When oil prices start to go North, it is well possible that we could supply our neighbours as well as ourselves. We will still have the advantage of a well educated workforce, and I suspect our property prices may bottom out well below those of our neighbours. Low costs.... and Eastern Europe may turn out to be a big risk to investors, especially if Russia and the gas supply cause problems with electricity.

The only possible recovery for everyone is related to renewables, because our entire way of life is sustained by a finite resource.

We are underpopulated, we have a mild climate, and are net exporters of food.

It could be worse

Notably, one of the few pluses of the recap is that each of the banks involved has to set up a 100 mill energy investment fund. Someone, somewhere had their thinking cap on....

expat girl wrote:

Renewable energy. When oil prices start to go North, it is well possible that we could supply our neighbours as well as ourselves. We will still have the advantage of a well educated workforce, and I suspect our property prices may bottom out well below those of our neighbours. Low costs.... and Eastern Europe may turn out to be a big risk to investors, especially if Russia and the gas supply cause problems with electricity.

The only possible recovery for everyone is related to renewables, because our entire way of life is sustained by a finite resource.

We are underpopulated, we have a mild climate, and are net exporters of food.

It could be worse

Notably, one of the few pluses of the recap is that each of the banks involved has to set up a 100 mill energy investment fund. Someone, somewhere had their thinking cap on....

Sounds like something my Great Great Great American Grandfather Auditor #-9 said in 1842 ...

I'm with you on the energy - I'd say we now have to utterly change our mindset and I think the Bad Bank idea is a reflection of what we need. We've gotten used to the idea of being pulled by market forces well the market is very possibly DEAD until 2025 so maybe we should try the 'pushing on a string' theory.

Children are a part of the natural growth of our society and a lot more of our effort needs to be honestly spent nurturing them now. They know nothing of markets, collapses or any of that and are victims of this but don't have to be. They are natural balls of energy and we should try to get them to teach us a few things.

expat girl wrote:

Renewable energy. When oil prices start to go North, it is well possible that we could supply our neighbours as well as ourselves. We will still have the advantage of a well educated workforce, and I suspect our property prices may bottom out well below those of our neighbours. Low costs.... and Eastern Europe may turn out to be a big risk to investors, especially if Russia and the gas supply cause problems with electricity.

The only possible recovery for everyone is related to renewables, because our entire way of life is sustained by a finite resource.

We are underpopulated, we have a mild climate, and are net exporters of food.

It could be worse

Notably, one of the few pluses of the recap is that each of the banks involved has to set up a 100 mill energy investment fund. Someone, somewhere had their thinking cap on....

1) We are already missing the boat on renewable energy. This investment is not coming in quick enough, we need to have had huge investment in it already or at least be putting huge money into it right now, we are doing neither. We still have an incredibly low number of engineering graduates. Last year only ONE person graduated from UCD, the largest university in the State, with a degree in electrical engineering. I know that as fact because I know the person.

2) We have a well educated work force, but we are not low cost, we are incredibly high cost... for everything. In a world which is likely becoming increasingly protectionist, where is the plan for us to use this educated workforce? Again, we're waiting for the Americans to flood back in with jobs for these graduates. Where is the evidence that this is going to happen? Where is the plan if it does not. This is something that larger economies, even those in worse fiscal positions, do not struggle with so much as there is an indigenous ability for job creation.

3) We are underpopulated, but our housing developments are also very badly planned. I see no ideas coming from any party in the Dáil to deal with these issues.


All the things you raise are quite right, but there is no evidence that right now these issues are being addressed so that they can be capitalised on. On that basis, where is the evidence that in 5 years time we will have capitalised them to the point that we can have an economy based on them?

johnfás wrote:

No, O'Callaghan quoted it, asked did he agree with the quote and he didn't say he did, but he didn't say he didn't.

Oh my bad, I was only half listening.

Regardless, I want to see bankers asses kicked, even if just for sport!

johnfás wrote:

I don't think many would say the short term dangers to the Irish economy are any greater than alot of others. The problem is the longer term picture. The ability of the economy to recover and create new jobs when the global system eventually comes round to some sort of new regime. With no domestic economy or industry to speak of coupled with a cowboy attitude, or a supposed one anyway, to politics, regulation and everything else related to business the question is where will Ireland's recovery come from?

Emmmm... maybe from the cowboy attitude?
It worked before! Low corporation tax, light financial regulation...


But let's not go there. It didn't work out so well the last time. Something more sustainable is needed.

Anyone want a dart for my new dart board?

Any one else feeling just a little punch drunk?

That was some picture of the Crony Capitalism at the start with all the places Seanie sat shown on the tv.

Wtf is up with Smirk Little tonight - he can't wipe the laugh and grin off his puss ....

I'd say he knows something, that fella.

Quote :

I'd say he knows something, that fella

Or maybe again, not.