For Art's Sake!

Herewith a thread for all things art. Let's limit it to visual art rather than music and so on which whilst art can be examined separately.

Here is a Damien Hirst cow - sold for 15 million pounds last night. Mad or what?

Ever read John Carey's book What Good Are the Arts? He has great fun describing 'art' such as cans of shit and urinals.

That's not just a cow by the way, as the anatomy illustrates, it's supposed to be the gold hoofed Baal, what got Moses so worked up. Hence that silly Egyptian thing on it's head.

So that is what it is, I still wouldn't want it sitting around in the hall.

Somehow you do get the feeling that a lot of the sensational stuff, like coloured elephant dung, are expressions of a movement that has headed up a dead end. Some of the stuff that appears in the Tate Modern is literally rubbish.

Alot of it is bought by corporate rather than private investors and fills waiting rooms and lobbies in buildings owned by the likes of *cough* Lehman Brothers. Will be interesting, how that part of the market holds up!

AIB has a very nice collection.

It's all rubbish. I don't deny there is something creative in it, in the same way that kicking a dog or smashing a window can be creative.

It's a complete con job, and I have no sympathy for the morons who buy it. And the art critics who take this stuff seriously really need a re-education, or a kick up the jacksy.

EVM, is it just the alternative contemporary stuff that you don't like or is it art more generally?

How about some of our important 20th century Irish artists:

Mainie Jellett


Paul Henry


Louis le Brocquy


William Scott


Tony O'Malley

I like some of that you posted johnfás.

The Damien Hirst stuff drives me crackers. No, people paying for it drives me crackers.
And see the first one Squire posted above..like WTF is that supposed to be?

Doesn't this look better ? A bit of colour and meaning does wonders.

It is certainly an improvement EVM!

I have to say I do agree with you to a fair degree. I often wander around IMMA in Dublin or the Tate Modern and wonder what on earth I am doing there. Some of it is certainly interesting within a gallery type situation but quite why someone would buy it and put it in their house I do not know.

My scene is really 20th century Irish and British art. I would love a Lowry! Great museum of his stuff in Salford (Manchester) if anyone is ever over that direction. Alternatively if you are ever in London go down to Richard Green on New Bond Street and have a look at them for sale. The prices .

From memory I think it was meant to be a car wind screen after a crash, or wreckage or some such. Can't remember, don't really care. Struck me as a pretentious load of nonsense.

Much prefer your improvements. definitely does something to it. Introduces an element of hope.

Art is really such a personal thing, I wish more people would just buy what they liked rather than what they are supposed to like.

The Louis le Brocquy I could live with but thoughts of that plate of fish staring down at me leaves me cold.

In the past much of Art was simply portraits, or recording a major event, or a depicting a religious text, and then along came photography and martyred Saints went out of fashion.

Scott does alot of pots and pans too if that is your taste Squire .

There is a good collection of William Scott's at Patrick Guilbaud Restaurant.

johnfás wrote:

I would love a Lowry! Great museum of his stuff in Salford (Manchester) if anyone is ever over that direction.

I agree and well worth a visit. Another I like is John Luke,




I think I'll pass on the pots and pans.

What about a painting by Winston Churchill?

I would also be a big fan of stained glass. Evie Hone is probably our greatest artist of this medium, she was of course an accomplished artist in her own right. She designed the East Window of the Eton College Chapel as well as the Four Green Fields stained glass which is on the steps of Government Buildings. You will often see it as the backdrop for speeches by the Taoiseach.

Has anyone seen the stained glass at Chartres Cathedral? Amazing! .

Four Green Fields, Evie Hone


Rose Window, Chartres Cathedral, France

johnfás wrote:

It is certainly an improvement EVM!

I have to say I do agree with you to a fair degree. I often wander around IMMA in Dublin or the Tate Modern and wonder what on earth I am doing there. Some of it is certainly interesting within a gallery type situation but quite why someone would buy it and put it in their house I do not know.

My scene is really 20th century Irish and British art. I would love a Lowry! Great museum of his stuff in Salford (Manchester) if anyone is ever over that direction. Alternatively if you are ever in London go down to Richard Green on New Bond Street and have a look at them for sale. The prices .

I know you requested no music but this video tribute to Lowry is appropriate to the subject though the Alan Partridge pisstake was much funnier.

johnfás wrote:

What about a painting by Winston Churchill?

Definitely not, I can do better myself.

I prefer to put something cheap and cheerful on the wall, that I like, good botanical prints of plants or something stylized. Things that really don't matter and can be changed at a whim. Once you get into old or valuable art then the problems mount. The painting that you drag out on special occasions to impress is just not me. Old family portraits, books and the like really are a headache to keep in good order.

I have also a passion for stained glass, and medieval cathedrals are IMO the best place imaginable to spend time. The carvings and individuality. Chartres is interesting for many reasons. There are some really refined examples of stained glass in England, less colour and more tones. Have to think of where, often it is in the perpendicular churches that you get some exceptional workmanship.

York Minster is worth a visit. Also if in Canterbury go late in the evening on a sunny day and with a bit of luck you will truely see the mystical effect of stained glass. With the right conditions the light will stream in at about 30 degrees across the dusty interior. Really worth seeing and because of the shape of the East end of Canterbury you get a feeling of mystery.

This is a yummy thread johnfás, a lovely treat for the eyes and brain

Yes, York Minster is well worth a visit. As is the city of York more generally. Spending a day by the city walls and wandering around the shambles (a set of medieval streets) followed by evensong in York Minster is a beautiful way to spend a summer's day.

For the modernist - Coventry Cathedral is an interesting place.

I spent my childhood being brought around cathedrals .

Strange thing for a family of non-conformists .

On stained glass windows when in Paris you MUST visit St chapelle. Forget Our Lady and pop round the corner and enjoy a Gothic tour de force.

What dya reckon to the Tory island take on art? Pretty much what Lowry was about too?



These two are by James Dixon who told Engish artist Derek Hill , coming upon him and his easel that he could do better than that. The cottages taking a lashing from the sea is a gem.

I like the first one very much.

The stained glass is delicious Squire. We used to have a precise scaled replica of a window from the Église St Paul in Strasbourg which is now in a Church in England. I'll upload a photograph later when I am home.

The tying together of the spiritual and art is incredibly interesting. Taking Tony O'Malley (as per above) as an example. Many of his paintings have spiritual themes running through them and he used to finish a painting annually on or around Good Friday and Easter.

I find it very interesting getting in behind the art. Like language is to poetry, the colours and fabric of a piece are incredibly important and can make a piece in and of itself. However, when you look behind the piece, as you look behind the lyrics, it can make art all the more fulfilling.

johnfás wrote:

I like the first one very much.

You'll find a quick profile and further examples here and he only began painting when he was seventy two. Now there's a note of optimism for all of us

The reason I like the Gothic is more than spirituality. There is an individuality and life and mischief about it. Your can see the Masons having fun and the private jokes. Often the stylisation is truely superb. If you look at the carvings in Chartre. Truly superb.



However when we come to the Renaissance the life and individuality is squeezed out and you get fine works like this by Indigo Jones, but they are somehow soulless.

Here is an interesting painting, old Hieronymus Bosch at his most daring.



It is Christ mocked. The conventional view is that the four torturers surround Christ, reflect specific ideas. Hence the spiked collar on the savage beasts. The lower left has the crescent moon of Islam and the yellow star of the Jews on his head-dress, which mark him as an opponent of Christianity.

Of course being Bosch it isn't just that straight forward and he is lucky that he didn't meet a painful end over this one.

The subtexts of the painting,

Political. Each of the four tormentors in the painting represents a particular social, religious and political power in the Europe of 1500. He is depicting agents of the Holy Roman Empire, the Church, Jewry and the Muslim world as Christ’s tormentors and making a connection between religion and power. He is depicting the most powerful men in Europe as the tormentors of Christ. Brave thing to do in 1500.

The figures also represent the elements and questions the relationship between Science and Religion. Not the sort of thought you should have in 1500

It is also a painting about human temperament every person was governed by a particular temperament: melancholic, sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric. More Heresy.

I want a big spliff of what Bosch was smokin. He did some crazy stuff.

I see your man in the top right is into s&m. Nice collar