Towards 2009: The First Programme For The Glorious Advancement of the Machine Nation Project.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

I think we're in trouble. It's an image problem primarily.

What trouble ? Do we have too many copyright images?

Feck ... deletin' all will be hell. Hey tomorrow is Saturday - are you having a few bottels of Tumour before you have to get up early tomorrow for Sesame Street?

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

I think we're in trouble. It's an image problem primarily.

EvotingMachine0197. I am telling myself that if we were in Trouble with a capital T you would have spelled out what it is.

There are issues going on with Youtube and IP addresses but at the last news they are not going to be handed over. I had been thinking of starting a thread on the perils to Open Sources and so on. It is a trend we should expect. Should we be considering barring use of stuff that may be copyright - I think the political stuff is ok because it is made to share - its music and film I would be more bothered about.

Not that kind of trouble. Site development trouble. We haven't had a new member in what, 3 weeks now or so.

I think there is an image issue with the site that is failing to motivate people to commit to posting, and continuing to post.

Right now, I think this is the biggest threat to Machine Nation, so we should maybe discuss it ?

What ye think ?

Well lets fire away EvotingMachine0197.

It is only a part of the picture, but some of the new membership came about from Audi or myself getting out there and drumming up the action on other sites. I haven't done that for a while, apart from inviting arnaudherve.
My own feeling is until a site is very visible and has a "critical mass", it needs active promotion or invitiation or whatever no matter what else the issues are.

I don't think that's what you have in mind though?

He's not here, but lostexpectation had stuff to say about site development - he thinks a site needs a 'unique selling point' to be sustainable. I'm not sure that there is a shared idea of what the Site is for and wants to be like.

Zhou has said not enough new threads and posting at times can make the site dull at times. He said that when there was a lot of hidden chatting re P.ie and Libertas there weren't enough threads being started.

I notice that the Irish posters aren't with us much, which I'm sorry about.

Anyway, what do you think?

Do you not think it might be better having a discussion on an open thread? We have about 30 regular posters and they all might have something worthwhile to say?

I like the fact that at MN we examine society as a whole. The other website has for a long time struggled to come to terms with what politics is. I don't think it can be examined, from a societal point of view, in anything other than a holistic manner.

I like the fact that we not only examine Ireland as a microcosm, but that there is intelligent discussion on Ireland's place as part of a global community (call it what you will).

I like that we have intelligent discussion, rather than points scoring. It must be maintained.

The only thing we lack at the moment is a critical mass, but how do you solve that over night? There is a level of intimacy on the site at the moment which is nice, but perhaps also stifling. I would imagine that will change as the site grows and develops with more posters.

johnfás wrote:

I like the fact that at MN we examine society as a whole. The other website has for a long time struggled to come to terms with what politics is. I don't think it can be examined, from a societal point of view, in anything other than a holistic manner.

I like the fact that we not only examine Ireland as a microcosm, but that there is intelligent discussion on Ireland's place as part of a global community (call it what you will).

I like that we have intelligent discussion, rather than points scoring. It must be maintained.

The only thing we lack at the moment is a critical mass, but how do you solve that over night? There is a level of intimacy on the site at the moment which is nice, but perhaps also stifling. I would imagine that will change as the site grows and develops with more posters.

Well said, I agree with all those points. MN does appear to be growing at a slow but steady pace. I think the site needs at least another 15-20 regular posters to achieve that critical mass. It can be a bit frustrating when a really interesting thread takes an age to get going. That is just the nature of early development I suppose.

I still enjoy P.ie, but it is the same kind of enjoyment that I get from reading Phoenix or the Sunday Independent. Its essentially a tabloid experience (although there are still a few quality posters on the site). Machine Nation is genuinely engaging, has a high level of informed and considerate debate with some really diverse and interesting personalities. Also, I actually learn things here. Which is always nice.

unaligned wrote:

johnfás wrote:

I like the fact that at MN we examine society as a whole. The other website has for a long time struggled to come to terms with what politics is. I don't think it can be examined, from a societal point of view, in anything other than a holistic manner.

I like the fact that we not only examine Ireland as a microcosm, but that there is intelligent discussion on Ireland's place as part of a global community (call it what you will).

I like that we have intelligent discussion, rather than points scoring. It must be maintained.

The only thing we lack at the moment is a critical mass, but how do you solve that over night? There is a level of intimacy on the site at the moment which is nice, but perhaps also stifling. I would imagine that will change as the site grows and develops with more posters.

Well said, I agree with all those points. MN does appear to be growing at a slow but steady pace. I think the site needs at least another 15-20 regular posters to achieve that critical mass. It can be a bit frustrating when a really interesting thread takes an age to get going. That is just the nature of early development I suppose.

I still enjoy P.ie, but it is the same kind of enjoyment that I get from reading Phoenix or the Sunday Independent. Its essentially a tabloid experience (although there are still a few quality posters on the site). Machine Nation is genuinely engaging, has a high level of informed and considerate debate with some really diverse and interesting personalities. Also, I actually learn things here. Which is always nice.

Great posts lads I think there is a gaping hole for a site like this as you both describe it above - informed debate and none of the one-liner posts that are thoughtless and often deeply offensive and sometimes just plain annoying that you can see on p.ie. We're half wondering between us by pm if we're not doing enough here to make it grow faster though I feel it is growing as you say rightly, unaligned, steadily and with good quality posting too. There are corners for throw-away remarks and silliness and a pint or a rant if you feel that way inclined but the main body of the site can be quite serious and I think it's important to have informed debate as johnfás says, about Ireland, society, politics and so on.

And we are all learning something here and it's encouraging when that's stated explicitly as no-one has all the answers and growth of knowledge is highly valuable as well as being spiritually important - certainly is for me anyway.

The site is growing slowly but steadily as far as I'm concerned but to be honest, EvotingMachine is concerned that it isn't growing fast enough or that it has stagnated. Over the past few days we have been holding a few conversations by pm with each other about it and perhaps that should be just opened up now to the whole forum if anyone is interested. It is site development which might be a bit boring or annoying for some which is why it isn't opened up but if anyone is interested then maybe it should just be made public. Everything said, by the way, has more or less been said again independently by the two posts above...

I've just merged some discussions we were having discretely with the open one we're having now on the "Why aren't you posting" thread where unaligned suggested a good name for the discussion.

The topic is open anyway - how do we grow the site to achieve that critical mass now that it is satisfactorily established both member and content wise? Unaligned believes we need 15-20 more regular posters posting along the lines that the regular people are already - mannerly and informed discussion with respect to the topics some of us seem to be addicted to talking about - policy not politics, society and culture, energy, technology and governance etc. etc.

There's no doubt that the site has been a success in a modest way - in fact in the 4 months of its existence it's one of the top sites of all the others in the forumotion directory

https://www.forumotion.com/en/Society-and-Culture/Various-218.htm

So it's popular and contains excellent quality writing and I don't doubt that some of you are professional writers and if not, give up the day job!

So what do we do to keep up the good work and get more people in here who enjoy the way we like to address issues and each other? Attaining a critical mass might do many things but I can think of these main ones off hand - keep the site ticking away nicely while other posters are away so that when people come back they find the same quality, similar themes and so on. I don't mean babysitting the site either rather that members will take a sort of ownership of it because it is a community project and should remain that way, especially among the posters who have remained here over the past 4 months and have returned regularly.

Getting a critical mass should also help roll out the themes that are developing here among posters - I'd say we're a peculiar mixture of humanitarians with a green/red even PD flavour, God forbid. We've been called a wannabe 'Utopian Intelligentsia' by a poster who left and I think there's some truth in that. I don't think we'll see a Utopia in our lifetimes but do we want to either? Striving for those kinds of things is good enough.

There is also the question of what the site is for so should we put our heads together on that too and see if we can compose a truer character for the site ? Maybe even compose a small mission statement for the portal - a "What we're about" or/and compose a pm which could be sent automatically to others on registration, if we get new members that is?

So what's the good value of Machine Nation and how do we get more members of the quality of those here already?

Great post Auditor #9.

I think we could do with growing a bit in terms of regular posters on the site. But even P.ie can be slow at times with its tens of thousands of members, so I think that we should have some patience for the next post sometimes as we a a small young site. The posts are worth waiting for (thanks to all posting).

Visibility is one thing that has come up. I think that Machine Nation's character is set up now and we don't need to fear an influx of loo lahs if we put our heads above the parapet. Any suggestions technical or other on how to do that would be good. One thing that has come up is that thread titles are googlable but content is not - clear thread titles that include the key words of the subject of the thread should help - try googling Wicklow and cyanide and you'll find MN.

Links with other sites have done us good since we start it and brought excellent members to the site.

Direct invitation by pm can be fun too

Great post Auditor.

My first suggestion would be a relatively modest one. We could go some way to achieving that critical mass by reconnecting with some of the members who signed up but for one reason or another never or rarely post.

The following are a list of lapsed members who I think would contribute something valuable to Machine Nation:

- The OD
- Code Twinkle
- Fergalr
- Rebelman
- Pidge
- Meriwether
- Rockyracoon
- RockofCashel
- Irishbeergirl

I'm sure there are many more already on our list but the above is a list of those posters that I recognise and respect from over yonder.

Perhaps we could construct an email to send to them to invite them to contribute? It may be that they simply prefer the 'cut and thrust' of politics.ie but even attracting a couple of the posters on that list would be beneficial to the site.

I think that is a good idea, and that one way of doing it would be to invite them to take part in this discussion - a personal mail rather than a group would be nice.

Could we sign up with BrowseIreland ? They get a hit if you look for Irish fora.

LINK

Sorry about the crazy url but I couldn't get it under control. It's fixed - #9

Further to unaligned's post, there was also mention back some time about contacting St Disibod, who I think would be an addition.

Never got hugely into p.ie so don't know all the characters. ( am still confused about Catalpa / Brandubh / Lestat? and any connections there )

Atticus wrote:

Further to unaligned's post, there was also mention back some time about contacting St Disibod, who I think would be an addition.

Never got hugely into p.ie so don't know all the characters. ( am still confused about Catalpa / Brandubh / Lestat? and any connections there )

Over to you johnfás ?

I can go as an envoy to Star Trek forums on the world wide web and PM people there about the Glorious Sovereignty of the Machine Nation. As I said before, I've rediscovered my Star Trek Encyclopedia, so I can ease them in with multiple Star Trek quizzes.

I can also bump the Economic Theory threads to restart discussion about them, thus upping posting.

We can also resurrect the, "A photo for ye" thread to renew the interest in the site and provide consistent intelligent fun.

I also feel we should have a revote on the MN Book Club as there was a lack of consensus after the previous vote. Several books came to prominence and that stifled clear, focused discussion. We lost the concentration which Collapse provided. If we come up with a new title and a new purpose, we can get posting going there.

There's also the idea of having a good monthly MN party. That boosts posting, improves fun and gets things going.

I'll go think of more things we can be doing.

Ages ago Kate P and I were talking about having a Speed Posting night.
We would need to invite everyone (come to post - not to watch) and set a maximum post length and then lash into it. Anyone interested?

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

I can go as an envoy to Star Trek forums on the world wide web and PM people there about the Glorious Sovereignty of the Machine Nation. As I said before, I've rediscovered my Star Trek Encyclopedia, so I can ease them in with multiple Star Trek quizzes.

I can also bump the Economic Theory threads to restart discussion about them, thus upping posting.

We can also resurrect the, "A photo for ye" thread to renew the interest in the site and provide consistent intelligent fun.

I also feel we should have a revote on the MN Book Club as there was a lack of consensus after the previous vote. Several books came to prominence and that stifled clear, focused discussion. We lost the concentration which Collapse provided. If we come up with a new title and a new purpose, we can get posting going there.

There's also the idea of having a good monthly MN party. That boosts posting, improves fun and gets things going.

I'll go think of more things we can be doing.

Excellent Ard Taoiseach. Yes book club did get messy - in the end it was Klein and Stiglitz though - I am finding them an excellent combination and will be on the sofa this Sunday. Historical theme next time ?

cactus flower wrote:

Ages ago Kate P and I were talking about having a Speed Posting night.
We would need to invite everyone (come to post - not to watch) and set a maximum post length and then lash into it. Anyone interested?

Speed posting? Would we be trying to see how much we could post in as short a time as possible?

cactus flower wrote:

Excellent Ard Taoiseach. Yes book club did get messy - in the end it was Klein and Stiglitz though - I am finding them an excellent combination and will be on the sofa this Sunday. Historical theme next time ?

Thank you, cactus. I'll go today and call up the Theory threads. I'd be quite happy with a historical theme next time.

I must say I'm particularly interested in the economic threads. I've learned a lot from these forums about an important subject that I was (and partially remain) utterly clueless about.

I thought the resource based education system in relation to the Lisbon Treaty was fantastic (training wheels, second gear etc).

Would it be possible to use that as a template for a sort of economic 101?

unaligned wrote:

Great post Auditor.

My first suggestion would be a relatively modest one. We could go some way to achieving that critical mass by reconnecting with some of the members who signed up but for one reason or another never or rarely post.

The following are a list of lapsed members who I think would contribute something valuable to Machine Nation:

- The OD
- Code Twinkle
- Fergalr
- Rebelman
- Pidge
- Meriwether
- Rockyracoon
- RockofCashel
- Irishbeergirl

I'm sure there are many more already on our list but the above is a list of those posters that I recognise and respect from over yonder.

Perhaps we could construct an email to send to them to invite them to contribute? It may be that they simply prefer the 'cut and thrust' of politics.ie but even attracting a couple of the posters on that list would be beneficial to the site.

All good posters - the ones I know anyway, but are they all firmly bedded down now in p.ie? rockyracoon would be my first favourite anyway and then pidge would be great too as would Rebelman who is like Edo or Expat Girl in that they seem to drift into sites quite well and connect in after being away for some time.

I'd be inclined to keep an eye out for newer posters . What do you think??

Quote :

I must say I'm particularly interested in the economic threads. I've learned a lot from these forums about an important subject that I was (and partially remain) utterly clueless about.

I thought the resource based education system in relation to the Lisbon Treaty was fantastic (training wheels, second gear etc).

Would it be possible to use that as a template for a sort of economic 101?

I've learned mightily too - Seabhcan on p.ie is great for the old money matters and there's always room for new projects where people should be able to learn stuff. We could be making a lot more use of the portal too like the Lisbon thing which was haphazardly done but a good idea with worth intention I thought.

And I wonder could we begin a thread which would be a list of possible projects the site could get up to? Like an Economics 101 as above - some posters like Pax I'd say would be able to recommend some reading if not write a few short posts.

Auditor #9 wrote:

And I wonder could we begin a thread which would be a list of possible projects the site could get up to? Like an Economics 101 as above - some posters like Pax I'd say would be able to recommend some reading if not write a few short posts.

Sorry, but what's an economics 101?

cactus flower wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

And I wonder could we begin a thread which would be a list of possible projects the site could get up to? Like an Economics 101 as above - some posters like Pax I'd say would be able to recommend some reading if not write a few short posts.

Sorry, but what's an economics 101?

Economics for dummies

unaligned wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

And I wonder could we begin a thread which would be a list of possible projects the site could get up to? Like an Economics 101 as above - some posters like Pax I'd say would be able to recommend some reading if not write a few short posts.

Sorry, but what's an economics 101?

Economics for dummies

If I'm involved it might be called Economics By Dummies