Decline of P.ie?

Auditor #9 wrote:

Worldbystorm is the man there isn't he? I'm sure he might flick through this thread tomorrow and then oblige us by recognising us as an independent entity. Ard Taoiseach suggested forming a trade agreement with Worldbystorm and the CedarLounge folks in general. Anyone any opinions or ideas on that? Between both sites some people might be reinventing wheels or researching similar stories. Are there nets of sister-sites where this affiliation thing happens?

I like the idea of affiliations. Is there any specific commitment, or is it just generally that we are both sites that won't bar each other's names and tip hats when hat tipping is due?

Another accolade to the quality of our posters....

quote:
I think a testement to the slight decline has been the departure of Smiffy, Cookiemonster, Evotingmachine and Ard Taoiseach. When the brains depart you know you're in trouble.

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35014

cactus flower wrote:

Another accolade to the quality of our posters....

quote:
I think a testement to the slight decline has been the departure of Smiffy, Cookiemonster, Evotingmachine and Ard Taoiseach. When the brains depart you know you're in trouble.

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35014

I'm quite touched by Defeated Romanticist and snadar's positive views towards me. It has lifted my spirits in an otherwise indifferent week.

i dunno they added a couple of more mods havn't they should help things improve. but its ummer now so it'll be quiet

Auditor #9 wrote:

Interesting. This place is a bit more personal than p.ie now - we are all very chummy here at the moment. P.ie I suppose used to be like that? Is it time to break a site up when such a critical mass is reached that the chumminess is gone?

Not necessarily, studies have shown that humans interact at their most effective in communities of between 100-200 individuals. Any less and the pool of people stagnates and with more, the peopl lose their sense of place. I suggest that if we do reach the heights of P.ie in terms of membership, that we will have effectively sub-divided the Machine Nation so that we can enjoy the advantages associated with our size, but have retained the nimbleness, cosiness and sense of community of the early days. We could do this by having Machine Provinces within the Machine Nation where a greater sense of community and a smaller scale of things is created while still maintaining an overall sense of nationhood.

Quote :

You won't be bothered as much with a site if replies to threads are often in the line of 'TROLL' and 'Fool'. Posters must get lazy and loose respect and get into bad habits - even humour can start the slippery slide to a thread going shitwise I'd say.

I disagree, the humour on "Which P.ie characters would you like a jar with?" was elevated, elated and very much contributed to it being perhaps the best thread P.ieposters have produced.

Quote :

That's it man I'm not laughing anymore

Sorry to hear about that!

Quote :

I disagree, the humour on "Which P.ie characters would you like a jar with?" was elevated, elated and very much contributed to it being perhaps the best thread P.ieposters have produced.

I really liked that thread. I even appeared on a few lists which really surprised me. I'm a girl and think urinating in public is inexcusable and still people wanted to go for a drink with me.

Go figure.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Worldbystorm is the man there isn't he? I'm sure he might flick through this thread tomorrow and then oblige us by recognising us as an independent entity. Ard Taoiseach suggested forming a trade agreement with Worldbystorm and the CedarLounge folks in general. Anyone any opinions or ideas on that? Between both sites some people might be reinventing wheels or researching similar stories. Are there nets of sister-sites where this affiliation thing happens?

Not a problem re changing the ident on the CLR. As regards agreements, well, a de facto one is already in operation and we could work towards something where say posters from MN put up a monthly or bi monthly or whatever post on the CLR to spark some sort of debate which could be held on both sites? I'd have to run that past the CLR cadres, but I can't see why it couldn't work. Or I guess vice versa? For example, there's a broad range of views here on Lisbon which is something that might be good to articulate over on the CLR. Obviously there are differences, not least that the CLR is a blog and MN is a forum, and also insofar as the CLR is consciously (self-consciously?) of the centre left, but that said it's always been our approach that good coherent right of centre thinking would have the occasional platform on the CLR as well, so that offers an in as well for those not wedded to the left. Actually we were approached by a libertarian right person about them putting up articles on the CLR and our only proviso was that anything that they wrote should try to address some aspect of the left i.e. perhaps consider divergences or similarities between left and right libertarianism. They declined, but you can see how there's a broad scope.

Sorry, that doesn't sound very enthusiastic when I read it back, but in fact I think it would be great to have some sort of linkage...

That sounds well worth exploring, WorldbyStorm. The fact that we are different both in format and membership I think would make it more worth while and interesting.

WorldbyStorm wrote:

Sorry, that doesn't sound very enthusiastic when I read it back, but in fact I think it would be great to have some sort of linkage...

Excellent, WorldbyStorm, excellent. It's great to hear that you are positively disposed to the idea of a linkage between our two great domains. Your idea for a sort of posting exchange, where CLR posters post here every so often and vice versa sounds like a brilliant way to advance a dialogue of co-operation between ourselves and yourselves.

The CLR is admittedly a centre-left website and that is in contrast to the heterodox quality of the Machine Nation but I do not see it as an impediment to the progress of our co-operation. Instead we can respect each other's view-points and create a dialogue from those positions and that exchange can become the driving force of our linkage with each other.

Beidh sé craic in a raic!

Go hiontach! Perhaps over the next number of weeks we could try to see what sort of links they can be and take it from there?

Kate P wrote:

Quote :

I disagree, the humour on "Which P.ie characters would you like a jar with?" was elevated, elated and very much contributed to it being perhaps the best thread P.ieposters have produced.

I really liked that thread. I even appeared on a few lists which really surprised me. I'm a girl and think urinating in public is inexcusable and still people wanted to go for a drink with me.

Go figure.

Aw I got caught by the coppers doing that very thing last Saturday night, me absolutely loaded. Lucikly for me they believed me when I gave them a fake name and fake address, as I'd have had to appear in court and be an amusing article for my friends and peers in the local papers otherwise. I just hope the buggers don't see me down the street and recognise me in the near future.

slartibuckfast wrote:

Kate P wrote:

Quote :

I disagree, the humour on "Which P.ie characters would you like a jar with?" was elevated, elated and very much contributed to it being perhaps the best thread P.ieposters have produced.

I really liked that thread. I even appeared on a few lists which really surprised me. I'm a girl and think urinating in public is inexcusable and still people wanted to go for a drink with me.

Go figure.

Aw I got caught by the coppers doing that very thing last Saturday night, me absolutely loaded. Lucikly for me they believed me when I gave them a fake name and fake address, as I'd have had to appear in court and be an amusing article for my friends and peers in the local papers otherwise. I just hope the buggers don't see me down the street and recognise me in the near future.

Good thing Kate P isn't here, Slartibuckfast: you would wish you were in the safe hands of the law.

If I ever get viciously attacked by a woman while doing that I'll know to say 'hello Kate' then.

Has anyone seen this thread? http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=35084&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=24

Fair enough Mary Frances's comments were potentially libellous and dangerous, but were DC's comments appropriate? Given he's relying on posters to increase his advertising revenues, should he really be insulting them away?

riadach wrote:

Has anyone seen this thread? http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=35084&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=24

Fair enough Mary Frances's comments were potentially libellous and dangerous, but were DC's comments appropriate? Given he's relying on posters to increase his advertising revenues, should he really be insulting them away?

Have you actually see the removed posts? Stupid and idiotic may well be the appropriate terms. I read the posts he thought were okay by her, and I had to weep for Ireland.

905 wrote:

riadach wrote:

Has anyone seen this thread? http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=35084&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=24

Fair enough Mary Frances's comments were potentially libellous and dangerous, but were DC's comments appropriate? Given he's relying on posters to increase his advertising revenues, should he really be insulting them away?

Have you actually see the removed posts? Stupid and idiotic may well be the appropriate terms. I read the posts he thought were okay by her, and I had to weep for Ireland.

I thought I did. They may have been libellous and potentially slanderous given the verdict, but I'd say they represent, rightly or wrongly, the views of the vast majority of people in this country at the moment.

They certainly don't represent the views of most of the posters, who are, after all Cochrane's priority. Most seemed to welcome the verdict, as the evidence was too flimsy.

905 wrote:

They certainly don't represent the views of most of the posters, who are, after all Cochrane's priority. Most seemed to welcome the verdict, as the evidence was too flimsy.

But should a difference in opinion be describe as idiotic and stupid by the owner of the site (not considering anyone else for the moment)?

Personally, I am uneasy about the verdict, mainly because cases should not be fought if all they have is circumstantial evidence. Was it the DPP or the Gardaí who reneged on their duties in this instance?

I feel that Cochrane's comments matched the mood of the posters, and at the end of the day it's his site and he can say what he likes. I'm sure this isn't the first outburst he's had and I don't see it as another sign of the decline of P.ie.

I don't know about the case itself; I don't follow these things at all. Perhaps worthy of another thread.

905 wrote:

I feel that Cochrane's comments matched the mood of the posters, and at the end of the day it's his site and he can say what he likes. I'm sure this isn't the first outburst he's had and I don't see it as another sign of the decline of P.ie.

I've seen him make quite a few rather personal comments about posters as of late. It seems to me to make simple business sense, don't insult your customers.

riadach wrote:

905 wrote:

I feel that Cochrane's comments matched the mood of the posters, and at the end of the day it's his site and he can say what he likes. I'm sure this isn't the first outburst he's had and I don't see it as another sign of the decline of P.ie.

I've seen him make quite a few rather personal comments about posters as of late. It seems to me to make simple business sense, don't insult your customers.

Mind you, he's also reported a post of mine for being (mildly) insulting to FT:

ibis wrote:

FT's lonely fight against the forces of sense continues - here, today, and every day. He won't go changing!

Was he ruder than that himself?

riadach wrote:

905 wrote:

I feel that Cochrane's comments matched
the mood of the posters, and at the end of the day it's his site and he
can say what he likes. I'm sure this isn't the first outburst he's had
and I don't see it as another sign of the decline of P.ie.

I've
seen him make quite a few rather personal comments about posters as of
late. It seems to me to make simple business sense, don't insult your
customers.

I think that the move to the US server has hit DC's
pocket hard. There are no more Google Adsense adverts on the site.
There was sufficient traffic on the site to make such advertising
viable. Without advertising, he would have to fund the site.
Ironically, the move to the US does not offer any immunity from legal
action. The site may be owned by an LLC in the US but the domain is
still registered to DC.

There has been a marked rise in highly polarised posters and there does
seem to be a level of targeting going on that is above the norm. There
has also been a rise in sockpuppets. Sometimes the temptation to use
what used to be referred to on the old Cypherpunks mailing list as
National Technical Means almost overwhelming. That Gayle Killilea
thread where some Sindonista simpletons tried to smear (classic
Harrisite school of propaganda) JCSkinner, KingKane and myself as
'Shinners'. Apart from the absolute stupidity of it, it showed
the difference between the fishbowl simplicity of Sindo-ism where the
public has no real right to reply and that of an public discussion.

The 150 people rule does seem to be hitting P.ie hard. If you look at
the core of most online communities you will have the super posters who
post frequently. You will also have a wide section of posters who post
less frequently but make up a large part of the community. The super
posters tend to start most of the conversations (the threads that run
for days). P.ie has, I think, lost a few of those posters. These super
posters are somewhat different to the posters who more often reply to
threads rather than start them. The rise of the polarised posters such
as those merely there to propagandise tends to become a lot more
visible as the number of high quality conversational threads drops. I
think that there is a point at which a critical mass of crud forms. At
that point, the site loses super posters (or at least the super posters
start less threads) and more importantly the wide section of posters
who generally reply in conversational threads. Sadly this is what is
happening to P.ie at the moment. With all due respect to the people who
have been portrayed as the brains of P.ie , I think that the loss of
super posters (or the reduction in rate of their posting) rather than
the P.ie equivalent of RTE "celebrities" is far more dangerous for
online community such as P.ie.

Regards...jmcc

Very good point. Insider2007 drove me spanners but he was practiclly full time and kept an awful lot of threads buzzing. Another point is people are bound to decide they are spending too much time there so you have to accept turnover. The challenge is to keep the quality above pure muck so other super posters will be tempted.

ibis wrote:

riadach wrote:

905 wrote:

I feel that Cochrane's comments matched the mood of the posters, and at the end of the day it's his site and he can say what he likes. I'm sure this isn't the first outburst he's had and I don't see it as another sign of the decline of P.ie.

I've seen him make quite a few rather personal comments about posters as of late. It seems to me to make simple business sense, don't insult your customers.

Mind you, he's also reported a post of mine for being (mildly) insulting to FT:

ibis wrote:

FT's lonely fight against the forces of sense continues - here, today, and every day. He won't go changing!

Was he ruder than that himself?

He referred to her comments as being stupid and idiotic. Perhaps, since he focussed more on her behaviour as opposed to herself (that old teacher rule), it could be considered to be less insulting, but I severly doubt Mary Frances felt that way.

Perhaps, given that Ft is now propping up the lisbon threads, spouting forth misinformation, DC has begun to defend those with a similar opinion. No to Lisbon has become a group identity it seems. Some of us however, prefer to put common sense above tribal bonds, which is why you will never see me agreeing with anything twtone says, no matter how correct it is (luckily for me, that a rare occurence).

Funnily enough, when DC was moderating the Lisbon forum himself, he regularly threatened to ban FT. Perhaps he's realised that FT is a better misinformation machine than Libertas?