Libertas a pan European Project : Read OP Intro Carefully - Mod

Guest

cookiemonster wrote:

toxic avenger wrote:: Writing to the Pope to ask him not to meet Ganley? Are you a practising Catholic? Do you think that perhaps you are entering the territory labelled borderline stalking? What business is it of yours whether a practising Catholic has a private audience with the Pope?

This thread in itself is becoming something like a harangue of one poster. 'Answer this, NOW, you have no right not to!' seems to be the stock response. What the hell is up with that? Why do certain people seem to become highly agitated in this way, can't we just discuss politics and policies, instead of taking it all so... personally?...

Stalking? Substantiate that harrassment of a poster AT ONCE! Never mind I've just likened you to the Gestapo!

The writing to the pope thing is gas though.

Yes good point and I agree there seems to be a humorous aspect to the appeal to the pontiff.

Gestepo. Nein Danke

Guest

Frightened Albanian wrote:: I can't vouch for PK but I am certainly a Catholic.

I thought you were PK... I'll take your word for it not being so...

Guest

I'm actually beginning to feel sorry for Mr Ganley. But I did say some months back on some thread or other that people should beware as to what bedfellows they keep. Mr Ganley would have been wise to publicly disassociate himself, before it came to this. Then again good help is hard to come by.

These latest leaflets look quite interesting, allow me to post some clearer pictures of them:

Libertas a pan European Project : Read OP Intro Carefully - Mod - Page 12 Money110

Libertas a pan European Project : Read OP Intro Carefully - Mod - Page 12 Money110

Libertas a pan European Project : Read OP Intro Carefully - Mod - Page 12 Money210

Libertas a pan European Project : Read OP Intro Carefully - Mod - Page 12 Money310

The really funny thing here is that these leaflets will not be confined to Ireland. They'll be all over Europe. In fact, a little bird tells me, that they've already winged their merry way to parts foreign and have started to be handed out.

lol!

Guest

Hermes wrote:: The really funny thing here is that these leaflets will not be confined to Ireland. They'll be all over Europe. In fact, a little bird tells me, that they've already winged their merry way to parts foreign and have started to be handed out.

why would leaflets asking people to protect the Irish Constitution and vote no to Lisbon 2 by distributed in other countries?

Guest

cookiemonster wrote:

Hermes wrote:: The really funny thing here is that these leaflets will not be confined to Ireland. They'll be all over Europe. In fact, a little bird tells me, that they've already winged their merry way to parts foreign and have started to be handed out.

why would leaflets asking people to protect the Irish Constitution and vote no to Lisbon 2 by distributed in other countries?

Could be a reprise of the Austrian letters. Is this COIR/WACI again?

Guest

Libertas a pan European Project : Read OP Intro Carefully - Mod - Page 12 Coir

There is a link to COIR on the www.wethepeople.ie site

Guest

What is your opinion Cookie you were there . Who gave them out?

Guest

cookiemonster wrote:

Hermes wrote:: The really funny thing here is that these leaflets will not be confined to Ireland. They'll be all over Europe. In fact, a little bird tells me, that they've already winged their merry way to parts foreign and have started to be handed out.

why would leaflets asking people to protect the Irish Constitution and vote no to Lisbon 2 by distributed in other countries?

I'm afraid I cannot answer that question fully as I'm not an associate of any of these groups.

These groups have matured (in as far as that's possible) and are ready to fly the nest. This needing to fly has been hastened somewhat by Mr Ganley's recent announcement about not being too bothered about the sovereignty part of the anti-Lisbon argument (I've not actually heard it and am relying on hearsay). The sovereignty argument is the backbone of the argument for these guys, so expect quite a bitter divorce imo.

Also, it seems that they believe (and I don't think they're wrong) that if they can get a foot in an all Europe debate that it will pay dividends over here when the argument begins in earnest. Plus this 'New World Order' stuff is hardly an Irish thing. Lisbon isn't the issue for them, it's a symptom.

Guest

Ibis wrote:: Could be a reprise of the Austrian letters. Is this COIR/WACI again?

On the ball Ibis.

Guest

That leaflet looks pretty good to me. It refers to a 2005 treaty signed in Waco Texas by Bush, Vicente Fox and the canadian. This may not be known in Ireland but Fox was on CNN discussing it. Over here we have on the windshield a thing called an Inspection Sticker. Here in Massachusetts they are introducing a bill to put a rfid tag in every inspection sticker to track mileage. Every farm animal now is tagged by an rfid chip. A pork chop can be identified as having come from a particular sty. Some people are tagging their kids.

I am deligted that there is a group looking to withdraw from the EU and will check them out.

Guest

Frightened Albanian wrote:: What is your opinion Cookie you were there . Who gave them out?

I dont know. They are nothing to do with libertas, regardless of what inference you and "peoplekorps" try to make.

Guest

cookiemonster wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:: What is your opinion Cookie you were there . Who gave them out?

I dont know. They are nothing to do with libertas, regardless of what inference you and "peoplekorps" try to make.

It is scare tactics though. Would you endorse it?

Guest

Frightened Albanian wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:: What is your opinion Cookie you were there . Who gave them out?

I dont know. They are nothing to do with libertas, regardless of what inference you and "peoplekorps" try to make.

It is scare tactics though. Would you endorse it?

Not at all.

Guest

Hermes wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

Hermes wrote:: The really funny thing here is that these leaflets will not be confined to Ireland. They'll be all over Europe. In fact, a little bird tells me, that they've already winged their merry way to parts foreign and have started to be handed out.

why would leaflets asking people to protect the Irish Constitution and vote no to Lisbon 2 by distributed in other countries?

I'm afraid I cannot answer that question fully as I'm not an associate of any of these groups.

These groups have matured (in as far as that's possible) and are ready to fly the nest. This needing to fly has been hastened somewhat by Mr Ganley's recent announcement about not being too bothered about the sovereignty part of the anti-Lisbon argument (I've not actually heard it and am relying on hearsay). The sovereignty argument is the backbone of the argument for these guys, so expect quite a bitter divorce imo.

Also, it seems that they believe (and I don't think they're wrong) that if they can get a foot in an all Europe debate that it will pay dividends over here when the argument begins in earnest. Plus this 'New World Order' stuff is hardly an Irish thing. Lisbon isn't the issue for them, it's a symptom.

Newsflash! Distributed Denial of Sense attack inbound over the Internut.

Guest

ibis wrote:

Hermes wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

Hermes wrote:: The really funny thing here is that these leaflets will not be confined to Ireland. They'll be all over Europe. In fact, a little bird tells me, that they've already winged their merry way to parts foreign and have started to be handed out.

why would leaflets asking people to protect the Irish Constitution and vote no to Lisbon 2 by distributed in other countries?

I'm afraid I cannot answer that question fully as I'm not an associate of any of these groups.

These groups have matured (in as far as that's possible) and are ready to fly the nest. This needing to fly has been hastened somewhat by Mr Ganley's recent announcement about not being too bothered about the sovereignty part of the anti-Lisbon argument (I've not actually heard it and am relying on hearsay). The sovereignty argument is the backbone of the argument for these guys, so expect quite a bitter divorce imo.

Also, it seems that they believe (and I don't think they're wrong) that if they can get a foot in an all Europe debate that it will pay dividends over here when the argument begins in earnest. Plus this 'New World Order' stuff is hardly an Irish thing. Lisbon isn't the issue for them, it's a symptom.

Newsflash! Distributed Denial of Sense attack inbound over the Internut.

It gets funnier, though I will say before I get to the point, that this is supposition on my part. Though I was hinting at this a good while back.

I believe that in the very near future, the next week or so, that Mr Ganley will be publicly disassociating himself from a lot of the arguments that were made the last time out. You know the ones. It'll be the easier approach, rather than publicly disassociating with the particular groups, as that'd consume lots of resources and might backfire horribly in the media.

On the other hand, our friends, will not be disassociating themselves from any of the arguments and will put it down publicly to Mr Ganley getting cold feet when he attempts to do so. Our media and politicians have gone to lots of trouble to point to Mr Ganley as having lead the charge in the first "no" campaign and now he's firmly established as having done so. What happens when Mr Ganley starts to back away? Our friends will fill the gap and marginalise him and will be seen to be the folks who really led the charge. Not bad for a bunch of folks who most would argue: couldn't find their arses with both hands tied behind their backs. These groups imo are set to become household names.

Imo Mr Ganley's arguments are more credible than the arguments offered by these groups. But this time, their message will be coming unfiltered. The big problem for the "yes" side is whether to do it the same way as last time and focus exclusively on these types of arguments. A dilemma to be sure.

I reccomend a large umbrella. Unlike Mr Ganley, these folks care nothing for how they're perceived. Indeed, the odd martyr or two would go down a treat.

There are a few different iterations of the above possibilities. All of them interesting. I've got my popcorn ready...

Guest

The Irish Times/ Red C poll has shown that people are beginning to firmly support the Lisbon Treaty, now that we have guarantees in place.

I believe Sinn Fein will support a yes vote for the new referendum, but not campaign for it. There are no more political points to be gained from opposing the treaty especially as the recession bites. The newly unemployed wont thank the No side for there irrational arguments, now that their original objections have been dealt with.

That leaves Libertas with Cori. Libertas will campaign for a No vote (obviously) but will probably hope for a yes vote so that they can hold the high moral ground (as they see it) and keep their publicity gains. A no vote again would only further swell the tide of opinion against Ganley and show how empty and extreme his anti-EU rants are. An example of this was one of my office colleagues new contempt for Libertas following Caroline Simons response to the Red C/ Irish Times poll on the radio this morning. He was a No voter last time.

Guest

Art wrote:: ...I believe Sinn Fein will support a yes vote for the new referendum, but not campaign for it. There are no more political points to be gained from opposing the treaty especially as the recession bites. The newly unemployed wont thank the No side for there irrational arguments, now that their original objections have been dealt with. ...

I don't know about that.

When Pádraig MacLochlainn says

Quote :: ... the poll is only a snapshot in time and people's views could still change before a second Lisbon Treaty referendum is held

I doesn't sound to me that the people he has in mind are Sinn Féin.

Guest

Art said

Quote :: An example of this was one of my office colleagues new contempt for Libertas following Caroline Simons response to the Red C/ Irish Times poll on the radio this morning. He was a No voter last time.

Any idea what that response was?

Libertas are not looking only at Lisbon at this stage. They are not trying to build an EU wide infrastructure out of interest only in Ireland. Lisbon was just an opportunity for a kick start and a lot of free publicity.

Libertas has decided to give up on having a policy, but to rely on loose alliances under the Democracy, Accountability and Apple Pie platform. Each candidate can have their own policy. That is surely the most opportunist political party to have ever graced the planet but I can't see that it will remove the difficulties likely to arise from having candidates with opposing views.

Kathy Sinnott has an agreement of some kind with Libertas - they will not stand against her anyway. I assume that if Libertas candidates put forward policies much different to her own, she would have to review that position.

From the point of view of the Yes opposition to Libertas, they will have a field day, as they will be able to attack both the full range of positions held by candidates, and the fact that the Party has no coherent policy.

Guest

cactus flower wrote:

Art said

Quote :: An example of this was one of my office colleagues new contempt for Libertas following Caroline Simons response to the Red C/ Irish Times poll on the radio this morning. He was a No voter last time.

Any idea what that response was?

I cant find a web reference to it, but according to my workmate she said that there are no guarantees were agreed for Ireland. According to him she sounded like she was arguing black was white. He felt that she was being illogical. I'll come back to you if I get a printed reference, I myself think that Caroline is a huge weak spot for Libertas, I remember her on RTE before and she answered some questions by saying she'd have to check with Declan, that's when I began to realise libertas were a one man band.

Guest

Just looking up something completely different, and came across this little post from the blog Clerical Whispers (motto: "Fides - Libertas - Veritas") on Ganley's appearance at the Ballaghdereen Conference:

Quote :: Libertas leader Declan Ganley posted his colours to the Christian and pro-life culture mast at a family conference in Ballaghaderreen, Co Roscommon during the weekend.

...

Declan Ganley added there was a need for those sharing a belief that “man is the crown of creation and not some parasitic presence on this earth" to stand up and defend those beliefs.

Over a wide ranging speech, frequently quoting Pope Benedict XVI, he said “Our Holy Father teaches us that once society does not treat every life as precious and inviolable from conception to natural death then man becomes a product subjected to ‘pragmatism’ and 'utilitarianism’ such that abortion, euthanasia, and the destruction of human life are promoted as false rights and choices."

I'm not entirely sure that he will necessarily be going separate ways from COIR.

Guest

Franco would be the model, I suppose.

Guest

For me, at least, the “man is the crown of creation and not some parasitic presence on this earth" chimes with what appears to be a definite dislike for Greens.

Guest

People Korps analyses Ganley's appearenc on Pat Kenny on 12th links to show
Ganley denied that Libertas had posted high res images of Grazin's personal details. People Korps puts link to the image.
Ganley interview with Pat Kenny demonstrates how Ganley mangles the truth.

Guest

I think People Korps is turning towards the Sinn Fein grassroots.
The below is great stuff Ganley in a gentleman's club is one thing, for an anti elite guy but joining the Military and Navy club ? The guy is living a fantasy if he thinks that will play well in Mayo
Robin Matthews................... http://peoplekorps.blogspot.com/2009/02/declan-ganleys-london-club-is-naval-and.html

Quote :: Declan Ganley's London club is The Naval and Military Club

British troops on parade from
Declan Ganley's London club's home page .

Ruth Dudley Edwards tells us that Declan Ganley gave a lunchtime talk
to in the House of Commons on Tuesday 10 Feb to an audience of mainly
young people who thought him a hero for his role in the 'No' vote on
Lisbon. the youths were "Eurosceptic to the point of Europhobia".
Edwards who is known for taking a sympathetic approach to the Northern
Irish Unionist perspective in Irish history also has a soft spot for
Ganley or "sympathetically disposed" as she says herself.
Ganley's Gentlemen's club The Naval + Military Club,
No. 4, St. James's Square, London, SW1Y 4J

It might comfort to know that Declan is a habitué of The Naval and Military Club No. 4, St. James's Square, London, SW1Y 4J. The club also known as the "In and Out" Club was founded in 1862
The board includes J D H Briggs Esq Chairman,
G G Buxton-Smither Esq and Admiral the Lord Boyce GCB OBE DL, ,Vice-Chairman see full board here.
According to its website Ganley's club

For
most of its history [...] has provided a comfortable London home for
Officers of the Royal Navy, the Royal Marines, the Army and the Royal
Air Force. The style and traditions of the Club have tended to follow
those of Officers’ Messes.

In
recent years, the membership has expanded to include ladies and
gentlemen who have not served in the Armed Forces and the Club has
benefited greatly from this.

The
Club exists as a society of men and women who respect service
traditions and who share the facilities of the Clubhouse at No. 4 St.
James’s Square for their enjoyment and recreation.
Is this where Declan Ganley recruited The Light Dragoon CO, Lt Col Robin Matthews who up until recently was Communications Officer for the British Forces in Helmand Province in Afghanistan? Robin Matthews is now Chef de Cabinet of Libertas.

What
does it say about a man who claims to be pro European, pro transparency
and anti-elite when he speaks to anti European audiences and recruits
anti European politicians for his party. Furthermore ( for this son of
Watford ) desires to join an elitist martial social club. Ganley's
membership of the club reflects his adherence"a society of men and
women who respect service traditions". It also reflects his elitist
nature and tendencies.

Ganley's US Defence contacting company Rivada is also staffed by former military men and here.
He also loves paint balling and flying flags. Though as you can see in my post on his German TV appearence he gets confused about which one he should fly on a moment to momeant basis.

In
the UK Declan Ganley is supported by haters of the EU, recruits members
of the British armed services to work for Libertas and socialises in a
club whose members revel in the traditions of service of the British
Armed Forces. Ruth he sure does sound like the boy for you but what has
he got to offer the Republic of Ireland?

Guest

In fairness you do not have to be a member of the In and Out Club to stay in it or make use of its facilities. I have stayed both there and the Cavalry and Guards owing to reciprocal arrangements.

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