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 New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections

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PostSubject: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:56 pm

With thanks to Sucker Punch of P.ie

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/20070

SP's post in full....

Quote :
Haven't seen this addressed previously, so apologies if it's duplicated.

The following is some detail outlining the platform for the latest supranational party to be launched in the wake of the now thrice rejected TEC/Lisbon. I hope that many will be relieved that a belated cavalry from across the rest of the Union is finally asserting itself, giving a sense of solidarity to those whom view themselves as pro-EU, yet find themselves exasperated by the particular neo-liberal/militarist direction that has been the only option to be found on the table of the previous six years.

"The Party of the European Left (EL) will campaign for the European parliament based on a joint electoral platform for the first time in the 2009 European elections, according to an agreement reached by 170 representatives of 19 member parties and 11 observers from 23 countries at an election conference in Berlin. The conference took place at the Babylon Cinema on Rosa Luxemburg Street. The conference focused on discussing and adopting the joint election document.

In his opening speech, Lothar Bisky, Chair of the EL and Die Linke, pointed out that the Left is growing in popularity because this period is about change in Europe. "The Party of the European Left has over 400,000 members. This is a vast potential of ideas, political experience and assertiveness. To draw on them successfully we need to focus on our common ground," Bisky said. The EL's member parties agreed to run a spirited campaign based on the joint election platform they adopted. "This weekend we undertake to establish the Left as the recognized representative of peace, social justice, democracy, ecology and solidarity throughout Europe," Bisky stated.

The period leading up to the 2009 elections has shown that the 'No' of the European Left to the Lisbon Treaty was inspired by their pro-European hopes. It makes no sense to continue the European Union (EU) policy that is based on a failed neo-liberal ideology: "Neither arms build-ups, nor a radical market policy, nor the absence of a social policy in Europe nor the lack of democracy advance us a fraction of an inch out of the current crisis. That is why we said 'No' to the treaty and 'Yes' to integration, 'Yes' to the lessons from Europe's history. Europe is more than just the EU..."

Bisky's speech is about resistance to the right wing-fascist threat across Europe, against rearmament and weapons of mass destruction, against loss of living standards and for secure employment for more regulation and fairer redistribution. Essentially, it is a classic social democratic political stance, of the kind that would have been mainstream in Europe a few decades ago.

I am encouraged that the left in Europe is showing some energy and organisation, but far from convinced that these policies are strong and radical enough to capture a mass following and reverse the economic implosion we're faced with. Some real, substantial and fundamental shift of economic power and control is needed.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:58 pm

Wunderbar!

So we have a Pan European Left organisation rising to to tell us all of the Neo-Liberal Right wing conspiracy that is the EU of which the Lisbon Treaty is a vital plank - to contrast with the Pan European Right organisation that is already up and running warning us of the Lisbon Treaty's potential to plunge us all into a socialist sea of red ink in preparation for the return of Lenin and Stalin that is the EU raison d'etre.

Throw in the ubernationalists warning of the end of nationhood as we have known it, Evangelicals and racists warning of the impending Islamic flood and abortions available on every street corner, Bilderbergers and the Illuminati directing everything from a war-room under the Louvre and the Cern project directed by the people who brought you the moon landings with the aim of stealing and cloning your first born - boy- we are simply spoilt for choice - who knew that the Lisbon Treaty was going to have such an effect - why wasnt it mentioned in the book of revelations along with the Whore of Babylon, the Beast and the end of the Days?

Im off down the pub now - hopefully I'll run into our local contraband pharmaceutical supplier and he can suggest some chemical solution to my problems of living in what appears to be a very boring,mundane,universe and he'll give me the key to passage to all these alternative exciting simple solution universes that are on display all over the internet - Im feelin so left out Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:09 am

Edo wrote:
Wunderbar!

So we have a Pan European Left organisation rising to to tell us all of the Neo-Liberal Right wing conspiracy that is the EU of which the Lisbon Treaty is a vital plank - to contrast with the Pan European Right organisation that is already up and running warning us of the Lisbon Treaty's potential to plunge us all into a socialist sea of red ink in preparation for the return of Lenin and Stalin that is the EU raison d'etre.

Throw in the ubernationalists warning of the end of nationhood as we have known it, Evangelicals and racists warning of the impending Islamic flood and abortions available on every street corner, Bilderbergers and the Illuminati directing everything from a war-room under the Louvre and the Cern project directed by the people who brought you the moon landings with the aim of stealing and cloning your first born - boy- we are simply spoilt for choice - who knew that the Lisbon Treaty was going to have such an effect - why wasnt it mentioned in the book of revelations along with the Whore of Babylon, the Beast and the end of the Days?

Well, now you come to mention it.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:16 am

ibis wrote:
Edo wrote:
Wunderbar!

So we have a Pan European Left organisation rising to to tell us all of the Neo-Liberal Right wing conspiracy that is the EU of which the Lisbon Treaty is a vital plank - to contrast with the Pan European Right organisation that is already up and running warning us of the Lisbon Treaty's potential to plunge us all into a socialist sea of red ink in preparation for the return of Lenin and Stalin that is the EU raison d'etre.

Throw in the ubernationalists warning of the end of nationhood as we have known it, Evangelicals and racists warning of the impending Islamic flood and abortions available on every street corner, Bilderbergers and the Illuminati directing everything from a war-room under the Louvre and the Cern project directed by the people who brought you the moon landings with the aim of stealing and cloning your first born - boy- we are simply spoilt for choice - who knew that the Lisbon Treaty was going to have such an effect - why wasnt it mentioned in the book of revelations along with the Whore of Babylon, the Beast and the end of the Days?

Well, now you come to mention it.

Brilliant video, O spawn of Baphomet! One of the last good laughs I'll have in 2008. I presume the "EU poster" was a fake? We know how sensitive they are about graphic representations of those stars.

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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:43 am

cactus flower wrote:
ibis wrote:
Edo wrote:
Wunderbar!

So we have a Pan European Left organisation rising to to tell us all of the Neo-Liberal Right wing conspiracy that is the EU of which the Lisbon Treaty is a vital plank - to contrast with the Pan European Right organisation that is already up and running warning us of the Lisbon Treaty's potential to plunge us all into a socialist sea of red ink in preparation for the return of Lenin and Stalin that is the EU raison d'etre.

Throw in the ubernationalists warning of the end of nationhood as we have known it, Evangelicals and racists warning of the impending Islamic flood and abortions available on every street corner, Bilderbergers and the Illuminati directing everything from a war-room under the Louvre and the Cern project directed by the people who brought you the moon landings with the aim of stealing and cloning your first born - boy- we are simply spoilt for choice - who knew that the Lisbon Treaty was going to have such an effect - why wasnt it mentioned in the book of revelations along with the Whore of Babylon, the Beast and the end of the Days?

Well, now you come to mention it.

Brilliant video, O spawn of Baphomet! One of the last good laughs I'll have in 2008. I presume the "EU poster" was a fake? We know how sensitive they are about graphic representations of those stars.


Possibly...but the star on their Christmas tree in town was also upside down... Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:24 am

Said it there and I'll say it here. They sound remarkably like Libertas, which just goes to demonstrate the ideological bankruptcy of the Euroskeptic movement.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:20 pm

Bankruptcy is something the mainstream* authoritarians should know all too well having brought us the mother of all financial bankruptcies. But, then again, the mainstreamers don't do irony dese days.

While the so-called left may have cobbled together some sort of response to Lisbon at this late stage, the very fact that they still call themselves the left shows a dire understanding of the changing dynamics of the modern economy and its attendant politics. However, I would view their albeit time-lagged analysis in a more favourable light than the ever shifting analysis of the mainstream. They cover the entire spectrum from "haven't read the treaty because it makes very little difference" to the admission that a new superstructure for Europe is in the making. The real power of their persuasion is that many clauses can be interpreted in many ways in order to suit the goals of those who are going to make future laws. As sure as I am that Lisbon will be passed by the Irish electorate, I'm just as sure that once the power has shifted to Brussels that we'll hear these words spoken or written: ". . . what we really meant was . . ." I'm also just as sure of the paucity of their economic arguments which will focus almost entirely on funding projects which established mult-nationals will benefit from most.

To their mainstream moniker they can add a couple of "m's" to make the 3m authoritarian logo a recognisable trademark - mainstream, mendacious and mediocre.

* A mainstream, who despite losing several popular elections, still deem themselves to be the mainstream and have called for censorship in Lisbon debates in case the mainstream's correct analysis should be sullied by alternative viewpoints.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:34 pm

evercloserunion wrote:
Said it there and I'll say it here. They sound remarkably like Libertas, which just goes to demonstrate the ideological bankruptcy of the Euroskeptic movement.

I can't follow that, evercloserunion. One grouping is libertarian economic right, anti-trade union, anti-regulation and anti-islamic. The other is clearly left reformist opposition to the right, pro trade union, pro-regulation etc. etc. Apart from the fact that most of the members have two arms and legs each, and are against the Lisbon Treaty, what makes them "remarkably alike" ?
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:04 pm

cactus flower wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
Said it there and I'll say it here. They sound remarkably like Libertas, which just goes to demonstrate the ideological bankruptcy of the Euroskeptic movement.

I can't follow that, evercloserunion. One grouping is libertarian economic right, anti-trade union, anti-regulation and anti-islamic. The other is clearly left reformist opposition to the right, pro trade union, pro-regulation etc. etc. Apart from the fact that most of the members have two arms and legs each, and are against the Lisbon Treaty, what makes them "remarkably alike" ?
Because it's the same tired rhetoric about not being Eurosceptic but still being anti-Lisbon; about voting down a key treaty in the progress of the Union while criticizing the Union for not progressing enough, and for throwing around vague terms. Though the exact terms are different--EL say "neo-liberal" and "militarist", Libertas say "unaccountable" and "elite"--they are all part of the same tactic to dismiss everything the EU does in favour of some higher yet undefined goal. Of course they both have different ideological stances, but my point is that Euroskepticism overshadows and ultimately trumps ideology so that EL and Libertas end up in the same boat, lying about EU treaties and wailing about our evil overlords and their conspiracies.


Last edited by evercloserunion on Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:22 pm

rockyracoon wrote:
* A mainstream, who despite losing several popular elections, still deem themselves to be the mainstream and have called for censorship in Lisbon debates in case the mainstream's correct analysis should be sullied by alternative viewpoints.
Sounds remarkably like any students union you care to name.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:34 pm

evercloserunion wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
Said it there and I'll say it here. They sound remarkably like Libertas, which just goes to demonstrate the ideological bankruptcy of the Euroskeptic movement.

I can't follow that, evercloserunion. One grouping is libertarian economic right, anti-trade union, anti-regulation and anti-islamic. The other is clearly left reformist opposition to the right, pro trade union, pro-regulation etc. etc. Apart from the fact that most of the members have two arms and legs each, and are against the Lisbon Treaty, what makes them "remarkably alike" ?
Because it's the same tired rhetoric about being pro-EU but anti-Lisbon; about voting down a key treaty in the progress of the Union while criticizing the Union for not progressing enough, and for throwing around vague terms. Though the exact terms are different--EL say "neo-liberal" and "militarist", Libertas say "unaccountable" and "elite"--they are all part of the same tactic to dismiss everything the EU does in favour of some higher yet undefined goal. Of course they both have different ideological stances, but my point is that Euroskepticism overshadows and ultimately trumps ideology so that EL and Libertas end up in the same boat, lying about EU treaties and wailing about our evil overlords and their conspiracies.

Sorry but in France we fought many years to open the mind of people so they now understand we are not anti-europeans as defenders of the "yes" always said since 20 years, but alter-europeans. So it is not for us a tired rhetoric but a great new progress in political understanding in our country. Now we can debate together ideas against ideas and projects against projects.

Saying the "yes" vote is the only vote for pro-europeans, vote "no" is only a anti-european and national vote, is the true tired rhetoric.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:53 pm

sandy wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
Said it there and I'll say it here. They sound remarkably like Libertas, which just goes to demonstrate the ideological bankruptcy of the Euroskeptic movement.

I can't follow that, evercloserunion. One grouping is libertarian economic right, anti-trade union, anti-regulation and anti-islamic. The other is clearly left reformist opposition to the right, pro trade union, pro-regulation etc. etc. Apart from the fact that most of the members have two arms and legs each, and are against the Lisbon Treaty, what makes them "remarkably alike" ?
Because it's the same tired rhetoric about being pro-EU but anti-Lisbon; about voting down a key treaty in the progress of the Union while criticizing the Union for not progressing enough, and for throwing around vague terms. Though the exact terms are different--EL say "neo-liberal" and "militarist", Libertas say "unaccountable" and "elite"--they are all part of the same tactic to dismiss everything the EU does in favour of some higher yet undefined goal. Of course they both have different ideological stances, but my point is that Euroskepticism overshadows and ultimately trumps ideology so that EL and Libertas end up in the same boat, lying about EU treaties and wailing about our evil overlords and their conspiracies.

Sorry but in France we fought many years to open the mind of people so they now understand we are not anti-europeans as defenders of the "yes" always said since 20 years, but alter-europeans. So it is not for us a tired rhetoric but a great new progress in political understanding in our country. Now we can debate together ideas against ideas and projects against projects.

Saying the "yes" vote is the only vote for pro-europeans, vote "no" is only a anti-european and national vote, is the true tired rhetoric.
In my previous post, where I said "pro-EU" I should have said "not Eurosceptic", I have edited the post to reflect that. The point is that the Lisbon Treaty is a culmination and reflection of the trend of the EU for the last 20 years, and if you oppose that you are at the very least Eurosceptic. Remember that not all Eurosceptics advocate complete withdrawal from or abolition of the EU. Ind/Dem, the Eurosceptic EP group, has two wings; a separatist wing eg UKIP who advocate withdrawal from the EU, and a reformist wing eg Kathy Sinnott who (supposedly) campaign for democratic reform in the EU, however this can rarely be seen as all they seem to do is campaign against treaties and spread lies and misinformation about the EU. EL and Libertas are the same.

I made a blog post over on P.ie here which dealt with a similar topic. The issue at hand there is whether the EU should be an economic or political project which is not directly relevant here, but the post addresses why you don't have to support the destruction of the EU to be a Eurosceptic.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:20 pm

evercloserunion wrote:
sandy wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
Said it there and I'll say it here. They sound remarkably like Libertas, which just goes to demonstrate the ideological bankruptcy of the Euroskeptic movement.

I can't follow that, evercloserunion. One grouping is libertarian economic right, anti-trade union, anti-regulation and anti-islamic. The other is clearly left reformist opposition to the right, pro trade union, pro-regulation etc. etc. Apart from the fact that most of the members have two arms and legs each, and are against the Lisbon Treaty, what makes them "remarkably alike" ?
Because it's the same tired rhetoric about being pro-EU but anti-Lisbon; about voting down a key treaty in the progress of the Union while criticizing the Union for not progressing enough, and for throwing around vague terms. Though the exact terms are different--EL say "neo-liberal" and "militarist", Libertas say "unaccountable" and "elite"--they are all part of the same tactic to dismiss everything the EU does in favour of some higher yet undefined goal. Of course they both have different ideological stances, but my point is that Euroskepticism overshadows and ultimately trumps ideology so that EL and Libertas end up in the same boat, lying about EU treaties and wailing about our evil overlords and their conspiracies.

Sorry but in France we fought many years to open the mind of people so they now understand we are not anti-europeans as defenders of the "yes" always said since 20 years, but alter-europeans. So it is not for us a tired rhetoric but a great new progress in political understanding in our country. Now we can debate together ideas against ideas and projects against projects.

Saying the "yes" vote is the only vote for pro-europeans, vote "no" is only a anti-european and national vote, is the true tired rhetoric.
In my previous post, where I said "pro-EU" I should have said "not Eurosceptic", I have edited the post to reflect that. The point is that the Lisbon Treaty is a culmination and reflection of the trend of the EU for the last 20 years, and if you oppose that you are at the very least Eurosceptic.

Bollox. Eurosceptic is a dirty word, it's been made that way for a reason so everybody who isn't for what ever European Ideal is getting heads nodding can be neatly packaged away in a neat little pigeon hole. I am a great many things, some good and some bad, but I am not Eurosceptic. I am not sceptical of the people of Europe who are, after all, those who make up the EU. Infact, it would seems that, in calling for Referendums in countries who can have then but don't or did have them but now are not or were told would have them and are now told then won't it is the people who makes excuses not to consult the people that are Eurosceptic as they are sceptical of the people of Europe that they won't endorse the "wonderful" dream Europe they have in their heads but are either unwilling and/or unable to promote to the people in any meaningfiul way. And thus we get all sorts of unbelievably antidemicratic statements about the Treaties being "too complex" for the people of Europe to decide and for us to leave it to the guys who know what they're at.


Last edited by Kate P on Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : removing reference to another poster)
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:39 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
sandy wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
Said it there and I'll say it here. They sound remarkably like Libertas, which just goes to demonstrate the ideological bankruptcy of the Euroskeptic movement.

I can't follow that, evercloserunion. One grouping is libertarian economic right, anti-trade union, anti-regulation and anti-islamic. The other is clearly left reformist opposition to the right, pro trade union, pro-regulation etc. etc. Apart from the fact that most of the members have two arms and legs each, and are against the Lisbon Treaty, what makes them "remarkably alike" ?
Because it's the same tired rhetoric about being pro-EU but anti-Lisbon; about voting down a key treaty in the progress of the Union while criticizing the Union for not progressing enough, and for throwing around vague terms. Though the exact terms are different--EL say "neo-liberal" and "militarist", Libertas say "unaccountable" and "elite"--they are all part of the same tactic to dismiss everything the EU does in favour of some higher yet undefined goal. Of course they both have different ideological stances, but my point is that Euroskepticism overshadows and ultimately trumps ideology so that EL and Libertas end up in the same boat, lying about EU treaties and wailing about our evil overlords and their conspiracies.

Sorry but in France we fought many years to open the mind of people so they now understand we are not anti-europeans as defenders of the "yes" always said since 20 years, but alter-europeans. So it is not for us a tired rhetoric but a great new progress in political understanding in our country. Now we can debate together ideas against ideas and projects against projects.

Saying the "yes" vote is the only vote for pro-europeans, vote "no" is only a anti-european and national vote, is the true tired rhetoric.
In my previous post, where I said "pro-EU" I should have said "not Eurosceptic", I have edited the post to reflect that. The point is that the Lisbon Treaty is a culmination and reflection of the trend of the EU for the last 20 years, and if you oppose that you are at the very least Eurosceptic.

Bollox. Eurosceptic is a dirty word, it's been made that way for a reason so everybody who isn't for what ever European Ideal is getting heads nodding can be neatly packaged away in a neat little pigeon hole. I am a great many things, some good and some bad, but I am not Eurosceptic. I am not sceptical of the people of Europe who are, after all, those who make up the EU. Infact, it would seems that, in calling for Referendums in countries who can have then but don't or did have them but now are not or were told would have them and are now told then won't it is the people who makes excuses not to consult the people that are Eurosceptic as they are sceptical of the people of Europe that they won't endorse the "wonderful" dream Europe they have in their heads but are either unwilling and/or unable to promote to the people in any meaningfiul way. And thus we get all sorts of unbelievably antidemicratic statements about the Treaties being "too complex" for the people of Europe to decide and for us to leave it to the guys who know what they're at.

Is it undemocratic to say that some documents are too complex for the people to understand, and that we should ask our elected representatives to decide on them for us? Why don't we have a referendum on the budget every year? Isn't it one of the main reasons we elect representatives, so that they can trawl through complex legislation while we go on living our lives?

It is obtuse and elusive to refuse to accept the definition of Eurosceptic in its common usage as being sceptical of the EU (and not racist against French and German people). Whether or not other countries hold referenda has nothing to do with one's opinion of the EU, as it's not the EU that chooses whether countries have referenda. It comes don to whether you think other countries should obey teir own constitutions, or ours.


Last edited by Kate P on Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : removing reference to another poster in embedded post)
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:42 pm

If your new ploy it to brand people who voted again Lisbon as Anti-EU you're not going to make any friends nor win anybody over. As well as being nonsense it's very insulting to an awful lot of people.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:49 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
If your new ploy it to brand people who voted again Lisbon as Anti-EU you're not going to make any friends nor win anybody over. As well as being nonsense it's very insulting to an awful lot of people.
having their cake and eating it "nonesense"? Did you get on the wrong bus today? I think the URL you want is www.politics.ie.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:54 pm

Frightened Albanian wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:
If your new ploy it to brand people who voted again Lisbon as Anti-EU you're not going to make any friends nor win anybody over. As well as being nonsense it's very insulting to an awful lot of people.
having their cake and eating it "nonesense"? Did you get on the wrong bus today? I think the URL you want is www.politics.ie.

What the hell are you on about?
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:54 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
If your new ploy it to brand people who voted again Lisbon as Anti-EU you're not going to make any friends nor win anybody over. As well as being nonsense it's very insulting to an awful lot of people.
I don't think people who voted against Lisbon. I think they were reluctant to vote against a treaty which they did not understand, which is fine and not anti-EU. I also think they were mislead as to what was in this treaty, what effect it had on us, and what direction the EU is going in. Which, again, does not make them anti-EU.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:20 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
Frightened Albanian wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:
If your new ploy it to brand people who voted again Lisbon as Anti-EU you're not going to make any friends nor win anybody over. As well as being nonsense it's very insulting to an awful lot of people.
having their cake and eating it "nonesense"? Did you get on the wrong bus today? I think the URL you want is www.politics.ie.

What the hell are you on about?

don't forget to close the door behind you
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:27 pm

Frightened Albanian wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:
Frightened Albanian wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:
If your new ploy it to brand people who voted again Lisbon as Anti-EU you're not going to make any friends nor win anybody over. As well as being nonsense it's very insulting to an awful lot of people.
having their cake and eating it "nonesense"? Did you get on the wrong bus today? I think the URL you want is www.politics.ie.

What the hell are you on about?

don't forget to close the door behind you

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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:33 pm

Why are you still here? Don't mean to be insulting but I thought you left.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:35 pm

evercloserunion wrote:
Why are you still here? Don't mean to be insulting but I thought you left.

Like Chuck Norris I don't leave, I wait.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:10 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
If your new ploy it to brand people who voted again Lisbon as Anti-EU you're not going to make any friends nor win anybody over. As well as being nonsense it's very insulting to an awful lot of people.

It's accurate for the majority of No proponents. That it isn't for you makes you an exception, but doesn't change the general picture.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:15 am

tonys wrote:
rockyracoon wrote:
* A mainstream, who despite losing several popular elections, still deem themselves to be the mainstream and have called for censorship in Lisbon debates in case the mainstream's correct analysis should be sullied by alternative viewpoints.
Sounds remarkably like any students union you care to name.

Sounds remarkably like any govt since the Republic's inception you care to name.
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PostSubject: Re: New Party Of European Left (EL) to fight European Elections   Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:56 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
Why are you still here? Don't mean to be insulting but I thought you left.

Like Chuck Norris I don't leave, I wait.

For the Cookietatorship ? Surprised

http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/
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» Husband left and is with another woman who he has a baby with. So hurt
» News and reports : Austin left Baghdad and a U.S. withdrawal ends next Tuesday

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