Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan

The Irish Government is currently building the M3 motorway through the heart of the archaeological complex associated with the Hill of Tara, in County Meath, at the same time that it is proposing to nominate Tara to Ireland’s UNESCO Tentative List (a list of nominees as World Heritage Sites).

TaraWatch is calling on the public to make submissions to an advisory group that has been set up by the Irish Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, to review the current list of potential
UNESCO World Heritage Sites in Ireland. The deadline is 30 January, 2009.

Minister for the Environment John Gormley, says he thinks Tara should be a World Heritage Site, and that the M3 shouldn't be a problem. We disagree. We believe the M3 ruins the integrity of the site, and detracts from the outstanding universal value of the site. It would be a breach of the World Heritage Convention, for Ireland and UNESCO to declare Tara a World Heritage Site, with the M3 passing through it.


Our position is that:

- The Hill of Tara complex qualifies for World Heritage status as a natural and cultural landscape of outstanding universal value, due to its unique cultural significance, and the extent of the surviving remains. Tara covers a much larger area than that the 100 acres of State-owned land on the summit of the Hill, which currently delimits the ‘national monument’. The M3 passes through the middle of the area to be protected.

- The entire Tara archaeological complex and cultural/natural landscape should be declared a World Heritage site. Expert bodies such as the World Monuments Fund, the Heritage Council, have recognised Tara consists of the entire Hill of Tara along with the Tara / Skryne valley, as well as the defensive forts that encircle the hill, including national monuments such as the defensive forts of Rath Lugh (to the east), Rath Miles (to the north) and Ringlestown Rath (to the west), and have called for the re-routing of the M3.

-The M3 motorway, due to open in 2010, should be re-routed outside of the Tara complex, before the site is given UNESCO World Heritage Protection. It would be a breach of the World Heritage Convention for UNESCO to inscribe the site, with the M3 passing through it. This is confirmed by the fact that Tara was placed on the World Monuments Fund, 2008-2010 List of 100 Most Endangered Sites

Do Green party people realise they have been taken for suckers. Nobody wants to admit to being a fool but eventually the moment comes when all must acknwledge that the emperor has no clothes. The destruction of what has got to be the 2nd most important historical site must be that moment surely

youngdan wrote:

Do Green party people realise they have been taken for suckers. Nobody wants to admit to being a fool but eventually the moment comes when all must acknwledge that the emperor has no clothes. The destruction of what has got to be the 2nd most important historical site must be that moment surely

Totally agree. They are traitors, not only to Tara, but to their own principles. But tell it to the minister and UNESCO please.

The minister, I assume, is only worried about himself. I have great respect for real Greens and indeed real socialists even though I am viewed here as a right wing poster. The young woman in the hole in Tara should run for office but up until now at least the voters are too dumb to vote for a real person. They will always choose the empty suit. The donkeys elected Obama here and now they have convinced themselves that Gates is a good secretary of defence. What a laugh.

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and leader of the Green Party in Ireland, John Gormley, made a visit to Newgrange for the Winter Solstice, as if seeking some ancient wisdom to guide his troubled people though the dark of winter, to a place of light and hope. Well, he found some wisdom alright, but it may not have been what he wanted to hear. This is the man whose party campaigned vigorously for the protection of the Hill of Tara, and then said he had he had no power to change the M3 motorway, when he got elected and appointed Minister, by Bertie Ahern. The following is an excerpt from The Irish Times:

Not all gloom for the winter solstice - 22 December 2007:

Quote :

"Neither cloudy skies nor protests at Green failures could dim the conviviality of Newgrange watchers

"Cameras were poised hopefully as the minutes passed. Still no sun rose over the familiar ridge facing the monument. It seemed so unlikely that no one was even willing it to happen. But the crowd was happy, not
tense with expectation. A female protester challenged Minister for the Environment John Gormley as he entered the passageway, reminding him of his failure to save the Tara landscape.

"Her comments encouraged other remarks; conversations strayed briefly from Newgrange and the technical achievements of our ancestors to the disappointing performance of the Greens in Government.

"The robust man with the Nordic skier's hat summed it up: "They were full of big righteous talk when they were the opposition but once they got a bit of power, hah, they turned into mice." Strong support for mice as a species resulted in him quickly amending his comments: "I meant rats." "Hear, hear!," endorsed a formidable looking matron with a walking stick, "they've sold out. It's disgusting." Colourful images of self-righteous "eco rats" bearing low-energy light bulbs inspired further exchanges...

Irish Independent: There's no light in sight for Gormley as M3 protesters cast a cloud over winter solstice

By Eimear Ni Bhraonain Monday December 22 2008

Quote :

Hundreds of winter solstice watchers were left disappointed yesterday as the sun failed to shine on Newgrange. Dull weather prevented the light shining into the 5,000-year-old burial chamber as dawn broke on the shortest day of the year.Environment Minister John Gormley -- one of 19 VIPs and lottery winners allowed entry to the Neolithic chamber -- didn't get the blame for the sun failing to shine at the ancient Co Meath site. But the Green Party leader was heckled over his failure to reroute the M3 motorway from historic cultural sites at the Tara and Skryne Valley.

"When you come out Minister John Gormley, will your hands be untied?" shouted Heather Buchanan, from Co Meath. "He talks about sacred land but he doesn't practise what he preaches. I want to know what his intentions are going into the chamber, what does he hope to achieve by entering the chamber? What does he feel coming out of the chamber, I'd love to know, I'm sure the whole nation would love to know that."

Have many of you been to the Hill of Tara?

eoinmn wrote:

Have many of you been to the Hill of Tara?

Standard Green Party response.

eoinmn wrote:

Have many of you been to the Hill of Tara?

A few times. Absolutely covered in sheep sh1te last time i was there. Couldn't help thinking the high kings would have appreciated a road that allowed them to travel at high speed around their kingdoms

It was Dick Roche the signed off on this was it ? A few weeks before the election ?

I think the contentious section should be stopped until it is resolved to everyone's agreement. Once this land is dug up, it cannot be undone.
I don't accept that the Minister does not have the power to stop this.

There is nothing stopping them proceeding with the remaining sections of the M3.

soubresauts wrote:

eoinmn wrote:

Have many of you been to the Hill of Tara?

Standard Green Party response.

I don't believe it is.
Its a genuine question. I've been there twice. To the casual tourist, it is quite underwhelming.

The standard Green Party response, if you want it, is that the decision to not re-route the M3 was made by Roche.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

I think the contentious section should be stopped until it is resolved to everyone's agreement.

What possible resolutions?
One of the other routes considered went through protected woodland, I can't remember the problem with the 3rd route.
And even if those routes were viable, the cost of rerouting, buying this land, etc is prohibitive.

Is it possible, anticoalition, that you could give a summary of where things stand at the moment? Tara has been off the agenda for the last little while.

Eoinmn, one of the great difficulties with the way the NRA does business is that it doesn't give people enough time to respond when they are faced with interventions that are going to transform their lives.

There's a similar situation arising in Multyfarnham, Westmeath where the locals were presented with three proposals and get a couple of weeks to respond. A number of things happen; three proposals sets communties against each other. Locals don't have time to research and investigate and present the kind of local impact studies or responses they would like to. They respond in the dark -without environmental impact statements that put a context on the routes.

I've seen people's lives transformed and turned upside down in that area because they feek the need to fight the imposition of a road on their community. They don't see the need for it.

I don't disagree with anything you say Kate.

But I don't see any argument there either for not building the road where it is planned to be built.

There are plenty of arguments, which I can agree with, for not building the M3 at all, but as I see it, its too late.

I have to disagree with you on the issue of lateness - it's only too late when it can't be undone.

Just because the route is decided on, doesn't mean there isn't a better one out there. It beggars belief that a country which trades on its green reputation and in which tourism is the biggest industry should build a road through Tara. It's cretinism at the very least.

Kate P wrote:

Just because the route is decided on, doesn't mean there isn't a better one out there.

How many more millions should we spend searching vainly for another route?
And if we find another route, how many hundreds of millions should we spend purchasing the land?

And what would we do with the land purchased thus far?

In a year when we can't afford to vaccinate kids against cervical cancer!

Quote :

How many more millions should we spend searching vainly for another route?
And if we find another route, how many hundreds of millions should we spend purchasing the land?

Your point is well taken, eoinmn, but I think you'll find that the NRA should have a lot of that research done already as the basis on which they decided on the original three routes.

But this boils down to something more fundamental than that, which is the role of the NRA in dictating to communities what is in their best interest. Millions are incidental to the main problem, which is that communities have no say. This isn't the way to build infrastructure.

You'll also be aware that the NRA is a very effective body in the way it is bringing projects in on or under budget and on or ahead of schedule. They take particular pride in this.

Quote :

And what would we do with the land purchased thus far?

Quote :

In a year when we can't afford to vaccinate kids against cervical cancer!

Hold your horses, there. We can afford to vaccinate kids against cervical cancer - we have chosen not to prioritise it. Don't fudge the issues here.

Kate P wrote:

Hold your horses, there. We can afford to vaccinate kids against cervical cancer - we have chosen not to prioritise it. Don't fudge the issues here.

Yeah, sorry. I was being tabloidy.

Kate P wrote:

I have to disagree with you on the issue of lateness - it's only too late when it can't be undone.

Just because the route is decided on, doesn't mean there isn't a better one out there. It beggars belief that a country which trades on its green reputation and in which tourism is the biggest industry should build a road through Tara. It's cretinism at the very least.

There is no route through Tara itself.

(mod - cf assertions of ill doings, without back up)
So what do we do? To start with, perhaps remove the old road/cafe that does indeed almost bisect the monument. Then get guides who can read the irish on the monuments there.

The indeed impeach/prosecute Dempsey et al

Hi Erigena - never mind if you don't want to elaborate but I'd be interested to hear what your problems are with Tarawatch. I've no connection with it or anything, just curious.

Kate P wrote:

But this boils down to something more fundamental than that, which is the role of the NRA in dictating to communities what is in their best interest. Millions are incidental to the main problem, which is that communities have no say. This isn't the way to build infrastructure.

I think the view is that it is the way to build insfrastructure which serves a lot more than the communities in the areas where the infrastructure is located. The NRA is needed because the Local Authorities, by virtue of their local outlook and accountability, are not up to it. If I live in Cavan, Monaghan or Louth then Meath Co Co aren't going to look after my interests.

6.5 billion people competing for scarce resources. We can't dick around on critical infrastructure talking to everybody endlessly. The fast track processes have some checks and that should be enough. 6.5 Billion people competeing - we have to stay ahead of the curve as much as we can. Everyone knows that people suffer when infrastructure comes around. Sometimes the crustier element don't put any value on the suffering that is going on for those who commute long distances - some of the worst non-medical suffering around.

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

Everyone knows that people suffer when infrastructure comes around. Sometimes the crustier element don't put any value on the suffering that is going on for those who commute long distances - some of the worst non-medical suffering around.

The government have never adequately addressed the need for a new road in the first place for my liking. The N3 is already a fairly decent road as far as I'm aware and the jams are caused by congestion once the traffic flow hits Dublin and backs up. It seems to me that the rail upgrade was the most sensibly way to proceed - taking traffic from the roads and whisking people into central dublin quicker than any new road - which will surely face the same difficulties as the existing road - will.

I don't think that all opponants of the road are crusties anyway - and trying to tell them they don't care about the suffering of others is like telling anyone what they are feeling at any time - pointless.

And as for resources, our natural environment and heritage infrstructure are also a resource. One that in my view is worth protecting. Ireland is in danger of loosing whatever it has that is makes it a marketable tourist destination - noone comes to Ireland to see the Tara valley alone but it can be an important componant of Ireland's package.

shutuplaura wrote:

Hi Erigena - never mind if you don't want to elaborate but I'd be interested to hear what your problems are with Tarawatch. I've no connection with it or anything, just curious.

Inter alia, the refusal (after initially committing) to take the Supreme court case that would, at the least, have delayed Zanu/ff for a few more years

shutuplaura wrote:

Hi Erigena - never mind if you don't want to elaborate but I'd be interested to hear what your problems are with Tarawatch. I've no connection with it or anything, just curious.

He is a member of the Green Party, that's his problem.

Merry Christmas

Anticoalition wrote:

shutuplaura wrote:

Hi Erigena - never mind if you don't want to elaborate but I'd be interested to hear what your problems are with Tarawatch. I've no connection with it or anything, just curious.

He is a member of the Green Party, that's his problem.

Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas to you to. I'll look at this before the 30th.