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 Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan

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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:56 pm

tonys wrote:
scribe wrote:
Aren't you fancinate to try and figure out how Lismullen was used and how it relates to the 5,000 year old sister Oak temple surrounding the Hill itself...... Or like most Fianna Fail hacks are you a shop keeper fumbling in the till.....
Ah yes indeed, the stamp of the superior twit.


Yeah.. Sure I'm superior.... after all I could figure out in 2001 that having 60% of our GDP in non sustainable development was a recipe for disaster...... cyclops

And I should have committed suicide last year cos creating 90,000 houses when 40,000 were needed
means we wouldn't be building more this year....

But you know... strangely I don't feel superior... I just wonder why these people who are paid by us to spend all their time thinking about our economy couldn't see these basic fact.... santa

Your not a member of FF by any chance....
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:34 pm

scribe wrote:
tonys wrote:
scribe wrote:
Aren't you fancinate to try and figure out how Lismullen was used and how it relates to the 5,000 year old sister Oak temple surrounding the Hill itself...... Or like most Fianna Fail hacks are you a shop keeper fumbling in the till.....
Ah yes indeed, the stamp of the superior twit.


Yeah.. Sure I'm superior.... after all I could figure out in 2001 that having 60% of our GDP in non sustainable development was a recipe for disaster...... cyclops
Now “sustainable” now there’s a word, if only it had the same meaning for everyone or if we could agree to accept the superior view, it might have some meaning then.

scribe wrote:
And I should have committed suicide last year cos creating 90,000 houses when 40,000 were needed
means we wouldn't be building more this year....
Aye, if only it were a state run enterprise or we could agree on imposing the superior view on when enough was enough, what with catch up and all.

scribe wrote:
But you know... strangely I don't feel superior... I just wonder why these people who are paid by us to spend all their time thinking about our economy couldn't see these basic fact.... santa
Who can say, except it seems to me that those who do least, notice more, or at least they say they do, although it’s usually after the fact when they bestow us with their wisdom, still, there might be something in it.

scribe wrote:
Your not a member of FF by any chance....
No I’m not, but I’ve always thought that the group insult is particularly stupid, so I felt I had to comment.
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:25 pm

tonys wrote:
Now “sustainable” now there’s a word, if only it had the same meaning for everyone or if we could agree to accept the superior view, it might have some meaning then.

Aye, if only it were a state run enterprise or we could agree on imposing the superior view on when enough was enough, what with catch up and all.

Who can say, except it seems to me that those who do least, notice more, or at least they say they do, although it’s usually after the fact when they bestow us with their wisdom, still, there might be something in it.

scribe wrote:
Your not a member of FF by any chance....
No I’m not, but I’ve always thought that the group insult is particularly stupid, so I felt I had to comment.

I don't think that there is a superior view... but you do agree that common sense exists?
like don't put your head in an oven?

I don't follow the "perfection" argument or imposing my will upon people.... after all we live in a democracy and get the politicians we vote for silent

I do and it's a personal belief that Ireland is a land of shop keepers and poets .. it fits for me....
And for the last few years the shop keepers were (he he I was about to use the word superior alien )
overwhelmingly in charge... initially for the good of the country but then it went too far....

it seems not superior but common sense that wealth without quality of life is worthless.. though a more
comfortable kind of worthless....

and if we had the poets in charge it would be too much the other way...

There is a certain balance between these two which mythologically (and i think it can be proven but i'm not too academic.... ) existed in irish civilisation and shows within the laws and entitlements given, that seemed to work for Ireland before.... it's the lesson of Tara.. myth perhaps but it's what i'd aspire to for my country...my friends getting up at 5 am to head to work and come home for 7-8 is not.....(shock i'm not anti motorways)

I think with FF... I can have no respect for them because people are dying in our hospitals because they will not ensure anyone is responsible for anything...especially something so basic as cleanliness... we have 20 odd hospitals... Mary Harney could even visit them individually once every 3 months and kick butt if they aren't clean. They are the ultimate shopkeepers... managing the books and squirrelling it away for themselves - not giving a shit what is happening as long as the money is coming in Smile So I respectfully reserve my insult though I do appreciate your point....and I am sure there are some good people in the party...

And I don't "do" as per your point because I can only apply common logic or sense to situations and would always assume there are alot smarter people than me who know this stuff alot better. I've read some of them in the papers but the government doesn't seem to be listening to them either... but they were told to commit suicide too Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:11 pm

scribe wrote:
Actually yes, the history of Tara lies beneath the land, it is not a visually spectacular....
Thank you.
This is why I feel that an interpretive centre is badly needed there.

scribe wrote:
It is particularly necessary in Ireland to
preserve those monuments to get the history of them and to teach all about
them, because, as a learned professor in the National University said a few
years ago, many attempts were made here to poison the wells of history. I think
some of the streams of history are to be found in those monuments.
The Hill of Tara is being preserved.
However parts of the surrounding complex, such as Rath Lugh, will unfortunately be buried under concrete and tarmac. Just as parts of it are already buried under the existing N3 and existing houses and farm buildings.

scribe wrote:
Aren't you fancinate to try and figure out how Lismullen was used
I am but I don't think leaving it situ to be washed away by the rain was the best way to do that.

scribe wrote:
and how it relates to the 5,000 year old sister Oak temple surrounding the Hill itself...... Or like most Fianna Fail hacks are you a shop keeper fumbling in the till.
I'm not a Fianna Fail supporter, but whatever. I've been called worse things.
I am against the building of the M3. I'd rather see the money spent on the Navan rail line and other such public transport projects.
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:28 pm

eoinmn wrote:
scribe wrote:
Actually yes, the history of Tara lies beneath the land, it is not a visually spectacular....
Thank you.
This is why I feel that an interpretive centre is badly needed there.

I agree, the people who I feel sorriest for are the good folks who for years have run the bare minimum of the one that is there with extremely little if any assistance. It opens pretty much only for the CIE bus tours though the Documentary done by the Discovery Programme is incredibly good and does emphasis the broaded archaeological landscape.

With all the arguments about 100,000's of millions they are kind of bewildered since they've been running this on peanuts and air..... and are saying a mere 10,000 would allow us to open more...

We don't pay enough attention in peace time is my only conculsion and perhaps that's a lesson from this.

eoinmn wrote:

scribe wrote:
It is particularly necessary in Ireland to
preserve those monuments to get the history of them and to teach all about
them, because, as a learned professor in the National University said a few
years ago, many attempts were made here to poison the wells of history. I think
some of the streams of history are to be found in those monuments.
The Hill of Tara is being preserved.
However parts of the surrounding complex, such as Rath Lugh, will unfortunately be buried under concrete and tarmac. Just as parts of it are already buried under the existing N3 and existing houses and farm buildings.
There are two differences, there is more knowledge now since the 1992 Discovery Programme on Tara started....and there was a less severely damaging choice. If there was no choice, I would find it very hard to take the stance that I do.

The Hill of Tara is part of a wider plane.... which is the Gabhra valley, though for simplicity is often now called the Tara valley. People lived not on the Hill but below it, across the valley. The Annal's talk of the 4 provincial Kings of Ireland having dwellings in the valley. I think there was somewhere that each was allowed have 1,500 soldiers with them. They talk of Bardic, Medicinal and Druidic schools. We do not know where these are or were.. but in most modern and ancient landscapes they tended to cluster around the seats of power.

My point is we do not know but for the first time ever we are so near the possibilty of finding out.
The time team are quoted as saying "in 10 years we won't have to dig!"
If we concentrate, in 10 - 20 years we will know the extent and importance of the momuments in the valley. Then we will know where we can develop.

I don't think anyone, and it's one the the problems people have with the UNESCO route, wants to stop life going on for the people of Meath. We just don't want it to become Tara Valley, Dublin 23.
But unfortunately backs are against the wall since both FF and FG have not interest in legally protecting
the rest of the valley from the same planning debacle that happened. You would be amazed at the amount of protest that would have diminished if legal protection for the rest of the valley had been instated with the M3 planning.

I for my pains read the EIS/Planning documents ( only to find after 20 odd pages on public consultation arguments, the Council tell the Planning Board not to consider it since it is not a legal requirment ) and it does not make sense. I do data analysis for my job and that data pointed to a logical conculsion that a Full Geophys Scan should have been done on the current route and on the Orange route. This would have probably (according to Conor Newman) shown a lesser amount of monument on the Orange route and this should have been the route. If it had been the Orange route, i would have been "ouch but people have to live".


As for Lismullen, it should never have been escavated. Conor Newman told them at Planning that the Geophys pointed to "monuments lots of them and important ones at that"

eoinmn wrote:

I'm not a Fianna Fail supporter, but whatever. I've been called worse things.
I am against the building of the M3. I'd rather see the money spent on the Navan rail line and other such public transport projects.

Actually they are now saying they'll open the rail line.. which is interesting but a re-action I think to the backlash against the 78,000 in tolls that Meath people will pay over their 30 year working life Wink Not such a cheap house after all. Still don't know how that's going to work with the Traffic Guarantees....
we're liable for up to 90% of the cost of the M3 if traffic doesn't live up to expectations ( set in the boom)

But it's going to now cost 560 million rather than the 100 million it would have cost before the M3 destroyed its infrastucture and forced to railway line to now build a bridge over it.

Strange days.... jocolor
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:17 pm

Very interesting and informative posts scribe.
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:33 pm

scribe wrote:
Actually they are now saying they'll open the rail line.. which is interesting but a re-action I think to the backlash against the 78,000 in tolls that Meath people will pay over their 30 year working life Wink Not such a cheap house after all.
Strange days.... jocolor
Did you include the toll for their funeral, it’d only be one way I know, but still, it’s an added expense if they want to be buried with their people in Dublin.


Last edited by tonys on Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:13 pm

Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:01 pm

tonys wrote:
scribe wrote:
Actually they are now saying they'll open the rail line.. which is interesting but a re-action I think to the backlash against the 78,000 in tolls that Meath people will pay over their 30 year working life Wink Not such a cheap house after all.
Strange days.... jocolor
Did you include the toll for their funeral, it’d only be one way I know, but still, it’s an added expense if they want to be buried with their people in Dublin.

Are you joking - it cost more than an house for a plot in Dublin these days and then you find someone
else buried in it when you die.... afro

Though if they dumped the bodies in the way of the M3.. they move them for free .... toute suite...

I think they got about 60 - Irish early christian graves... 600 ad approx (which means it could include St Pat but no-ones saying that study since if the stories are true as Bishop he would be considered kinda aristocracy and more likely to be buried at Tara where his position and the position of the Church would be secured...) in the route... reburied no problem...

But perhaps there's an M3 funeral plan.... after all Blundlestown interchange set low in the valley is hugely prone to summer fog and we know how letal that was on the M7 last year... Evil or Very Mad

drunken only way to be....
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:39 pm

scribe wrote:
tonys wrote:
scribe wrote:
Actually they are now saying they'll open the rail line.. which is interesting but a re-action I think to the backlash against the 78,000 in tolls that Meath people will pay over their 30 year working life Wink Not such a cheap house after all.
Strange days.... jocolor
Did you include the toll for their funeral, it’d only be one way I know, but still, it’s an added expense if they want to be buried with their people in Dublin.

Are you joking - it cost more than an house for a plot in Dublin these days and then you find someone
else buried in it when you die.... afro

Though if they dumped the bodies in the way of the M3.. they move them for free .... toute suite...

I think they got about 60 - Irish early christian graves... 600 ad approx (which means it could include St Pat
Sure I don’t think he’d mind, a change is as good as a rest they say and he was a progressive type too, he’d be all in favour of the road, good man Pat.
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:50 pm

tonys wrote:
[Sure I don’t think he’d mind, a change is as good as a rest they say and he was a progressive type too, he’d be all in favour of the road, good man Pat.

Ah, Yes... I remember it well, the Sermon of the Roads... Very Happy

Thus shall you remember me by building roads over my grave and thus you will shove me into black plastic bags. Thus the glory and dignity of my church shall shine through all Ireland.... cyclops

Though if all power is passed at Tara...Does this mean the stripping of power from Catholic Ireland.... Cool

There are upsides to everything.... Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:00 pm

scribe wrote:
tonys wrote:
[Sure I don’t think he’d mind, a change is as good as a rest they say and he was a progressive type too, he’d be all in favour of the road, good man Pat.

Ah, Yes... I remember it well, the Sermon of the Roads...

Thus shall you remember me by building roads over my grave and thus you will shove me into black plastic bags.
Would that make him a plastic paddy?
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:37 pm

tonys wrote:
scribe wrote:
tonys wrote:
[Sure I don’t think he’d mind, a change is as good as a rest they say and he was a progressive type too, he’d be all in favour of the road, good man Pat.

Ah, Yes... I remember it well, the Sermon of the Roads...

Thus shall you remember me by building roads over my grave and thus you will shove me into black plastic bags.
Would that make him a plastic paddy?


Well he is a Brit but I'm not sure about the Irish parents.....

Perhaps a Plastic St Paddy Very Happy

Perhaps we should start selling them at the Tara gift shop....

Plastic St Paddy 2008 ...... a pile of bones in a black plastic bag.... classy Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:54 pm

scribe wrote:
tonys wrote:
scribe wrote:
tonys wrote:
[Sure I don’t think he’d mind, a change is as good as a rest they say and he was a progressive type too, he’d be all in favour of the road, good man Pat.

Ah, Yes... I remember it well, the Sermon of the Roads...

Thus shall you remember me by building roads over my grave and thus you will shove me into black plastic bags.
Would that make him a plastic paddy?
a pile of bones in a black plastic bag.... classy Cool
well, it works for some women.
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PostSubject: Re: Hill of Tara / M3 motorway UNESCO Consultation - Please make submissions by 30 Jan   Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:01 pm

tonys wrote:
scribe wrote:
tonys wrote:
scribe wrote:
tonys wrote:
[Sure I don’t think he’d mind, a change is as good as a rest they say and he was a progressive type too, he’d be all in favour of the road, good man Pat.

Ah, Yes... I remember it well, the Sermon of the Roads...

Thus shall you remember me by building roads over my grave and thus you will shove me into black plastic bags.
Would that make him a plastic paddy?
a pile of bones in a black plastic bag.... classy Cool
well, it works for some women.

Yeah, maybe it would be a big enough export to get us out of recesssion.... Cheap and Practicle Very Happy
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