That's a nice little site you found there cactus - I might replace slashdot with it on the feeds above. Yeah the Germans get paid four times the market price for producing electricity ... why can't we do that I wonder ? I'll tell you - the Green Party (or anyone else) would be stepping on the toes of the Execs at the ESB who need the money to power their personal McMansions of America homes and run their enormous Lexuses. Plus, they need the dough to also infect other countries abroad with their fossilisation of electricity production.
I'd say if the Greens want to make a real impression on the likes of me then Eamo will need to push that Smart Meter unit on us - I don't care, I'll be happy to pay for it as long as it's useful. It'll have to be plugable for solar panels and other electricity-producing devices plus it'll need to show you in graph form what you use per month or day etc. like our visitor stats here or your broadband stats on Eircom or whoever you're with. At the moment we're at the mercy of an ageing grid that isn't getting much investment by the looks of it yet I'm sure the ESB Execs are investing plenty in their own business and their personal purchases.
I'm seriously thinking about getting one of these now, ESB bills have increased by 20% in the last few months - anyone notice that ?
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:22 am
What's going on at all ? Lots of options trading that oil will fall to €30 a barrel by February. Is someone trying to kill alternative energy altogether ?
It seems to me that geothermal energy is THE way to go. Technological developments in terms of reducing drilling costs mean that well depths of up to ten kilometres will be viable in the medium term. This will make geothermal viable practically anywhere.
The situation is analogous to 1938, when developments in metallurgy for high temperature turbine blades made the gas turbine practicable.
Quote :
When I read articles like this it just makes me more committed to packing my bags and heading off to Darwin, Australia. The Survivalist sites say find somewhere remote, where land is relatively cheap, population density is small and you have access to water. To which I might add temperature increases in the future will be moderated by nearness to the equator. Add in a touch of political stability and nearness to resources fuelling the present insanity and it seems as sure a bet for survival as can be found.
When I'm there I'll be making my own energy, something entirely unmentioned in the article. Doubtless it won't be much but frugality and ingenuity will be the result of that.
The method of energy generation assumed in the article is the usual top down, high centralized systems with enormous infrastructure requirements. This is hardly surprising since such systems are the lifeblood of big investors, who are in turn the lifeblood of The Economist.
However community power generation has long been recognized s being the most efficient. Furthermore it tends to generate jobs in the community. At least this is the experience of communities using the Natural Step, or the US Swamp Yankee system.
Sometimes I despair, not for me you understand, since my eyes are open to what the future is bringing and I am preparing for it. No I despair for all the people whose concerns do not take them past their next paycheck and who are blithely marching in lock step to their corporately marketed doom.
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:26 pm
Isn't it all burgled already ?
Quote :
Irish oil and gas companies are being invited to attempt to find fossil fuel in the Rockall basin in the West of Ireland.
Junior Energy Minister Sean Power today announced the opening of the 2009 round of licensing.
Successful companies will search around 117,000 km for indigenous oil and gas supplies
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:16 am
Auditor #9 wrote:
Intel are coming out with a low-voltage chip that will use less power therefore put less CO2 in the atmosphere.
Another example of how the innovation, creativity and drive of private sector organisations is providing us with the tools necessary to graduate to a less energy-intensive society. Whether it be the cars, planes, trains, computers or houses in which we live; the private sector will provide solutions in this regard far better than any government and will be the key agent in switching us from the anachronistic Age of Oil to the Age of Hydrogen.
The Sunday Times Magazine had an interesting article about living a low-energy life in today's issue while the Economist had an article relating to new carbon sink technology under development here.
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Subject: Tralee IT reduces electricity consumption by implementing simple measures Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:26 pm
From the Examiner this morning :
Quote :
Energy project saves college €170 a day in electricity
By Donal Hickey BY DOING things as simple as switching off lights, people can make significant savings in their energy bills, a one-year project at the Institute of Technology (IT), in Tralee, has shown.
They did some relatively low-tech modifications to the 3,500-student Tralee IT and managed to save plenty of kilowatt hours and money since the implementations. The Examiner says they reduced "electricity consumption by more than 22%, as a result of energy-saving project, and is now spending €170 less a day in electricity".
Quote :
“One Sunday, we came in to see what was switched on and what we discovered really opened our eyes. Lights and equipment were all on 24/7,” Mr Donal Hunt [estate manager] said.
An action programme was soon put in place, with timer switches being fitted on 18 under-sink water heaters. The timers have since brought about electricity savings of more than €6,000.
Furthermore, motion detectors were fitted in all toilets so that lights switch off when facilities are not in use. Savings of €6,400 resulted.
Master switches fitted to heaters provided savings of €1,800, while fine tuning of the building management system has brought about more efficient use of heating and ventilation and savings worth €20,000.
Overall, the amount of energy saved — 332,000 kilowatts — would be enough to power one house for 65 years.
Saudi Arabia on Saturday cited $75 a barrel as a "fair price" for oil, the first time in years that the world's biggest exporter has identifed a target for crude prices.
Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi said oil prices needed to return to $75 to keep the more expensive new projects at the margins of world supply on track. His comments may come as a relief to consumer nations fearful of a return to $100-plus oil.
U.S. crude was valued at $55 at the close of trade on Friday.
"There is a good logic for $75 a barrel," Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi, OPEC's most influential voice, told reporters in Cairo, where the producer cartel was meeting.
"You know why? Because I believe $75 is the price for the marginal producer. If the world needs supply from all sources, we need to protect the price for them. I think $75 is a fair price," he said.
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:33 am
Auditor #9 wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
That is a worrying post, Auditor: I wonder how our energy costs compare with the EU generally.
In the UK and Germany now each household will be able to sell any extra electricity back to the grid. When is that coming in in Ireland?
That's a nice little site you found there cactus - I might replace slashdot with it on the feeds above. Yeah the Germans get paid four times the market price for producing electricity ... why can't we do that I wonder ? I'll tell you - the Green Party (or anyone else) would be stepping on the toes of the Execs at the ESB who need the money to power their personal McMansions of America homes and run their enormous Lexuses. Plus, they need the dough to also infect other countries abroad with their fossilisation of electricity production.
Theres a problem with the Germans paying four times the market price for home produced electricity. This makes it more expensive then buying electricity. Therefore you would make a tidy profit by buying two houses beside each other and simply taking electricity in one house, linking the houses together, and selling it back to the power company from the other house. The Germans are probably too honest for this though.
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:15 pm
Art wrote:
Theres a problem with the Germans paying four times the market price for home produced electricity. This makes it more expensive then buying electricity. Therefore you would make a tidy profit by buying two houses beside each other and simply taking electricity in one house, linking the houses together, and selling it back to the power company from the other house. The Germans are probably too honest for this though.
That's a puzzle alright
Look at this - if this lasts for a while it'll bankrupture the Arabs. Could it also bankrupt America or be the precipitating impetus behind the fall of the petrodollar ?
Lindsey Williams (NWO alert)
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:06 pm
Would a switch to DC not save a good percentage of waste off the whole lot of the process of producing and delivering electricity ? It's not a new technology or anything it's just like bringing back Betamax.
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AC power has long been the only game in town, ever since it became the standard over a hundred years ago. Supporters of DC, however, are pushing for a comeback on the grounds of sustainability and efficiency. Solar panels and fuel cells produce DC electricity; the inverters which turn it into grid-worthy AC inevitably lose some of that electricity in the process. Besides, many of the energy consuming devices we use - such as computers and LEDs – run on DC, too. That’s why you have a big box in between your laptop and the wall outlet. A DC power source would obviate the need for the box, and all the waste heat that it generates.
One group pushing for DC is called the EMerge Alliance. Their goal is to create standards that will give building designers the chance to put low voltage, DC power supplies in their buildings. They like the idea of designing buildings with, say, rooftop solar panels generating DC electricity that can be used directly to power the building’s LED lighting or its system of energy monitors. That kind of setup saves money on the solar installation (because it doesn’t require inverters and connects more smoothly to the grid), eases the installation of the lighting systems themselves, and makes the overall power consumption more efficient.
Subject: Energy money. Carbon money, carbon credits. Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:31 pm
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‘Cap and share’ carbon emissions scheme proposed
A CAP on carbon emissions and a compensation scheme for citizens hit by higher fuel costs have been proposed as a way of meeting greenhouse gas reduction targets.
Cómhar Sustainable Development Council (SDC) has investigated a new “cap and share” system which would see all adults receiving free carbon emissions shares that they would then sell on to companies supplying fossil fuels.
A cap on fossil fuel emissions would lead to higher prices, offset by the money received by citizens for selling their “shares”.
Under the scheme, an independent body appointed by the Government — such as the Environmental Protection Agency — would set the cap each year on the amount of greenhouse gases fuel-suppliers were allowed to emit.
All adults would then receive certificates entitling them to an equal share of the emissions permitted under that year’s cap. They could sell these certificates — via banks or post offices — to companies that import fossil fuels or extract them from the ground.
The Department of Agriculture said yesterday that monitoring the Millstream Recycling Plant for the use of an oil that led to the presence of dioxins in pig feed fell within the remit of the Environmental Protection Agency.
However, the agency said last night that inspecting the factory up to now was not its responsibility as the agency had not licensed the plant.
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:41 pm
from Obama's youTube account - Barack has an account with youTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/ChangeDotGov and Fine Gael/Fáil doesn't ! (how cool is Obama though - youTube isn't even half-perfect technology )
Here he is talking about his Green Economic recovery plan - insulating schools and government buildings all over the States.
Also from Ecogeek today - how big industry is looking at biofuels, in particular algae. Boeing is looking at 30% biofuel over the next 5 years - that's a shedload when you consider a 737 will burn 1300 gallons (over 5000 litres) in 3 hours. ( yahoo )
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:31 pm
International oil demand is falling slightly from the circa 88 million barrels per day level of consumption according to the International Energy Agency. The reduction must mean a good fall in annual CO2 emissions for the believers amongst us.
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The IEA, in its oil-market report for December, forecast 2008 global oil demand to fall by 0.2%, or 200,000 barrels a day, to 85.8 million barrels a day on average. The outlook, a cut of over 300,000 barrels a day from November, would represent the first demand contraction since 1983.
Global oil demand is now expected to contract in 2008for the first time since 1983, shrinking by 0.2 mb/d, with the total this year revised down by 350 kb/d to 85.8 mb/d. 2009 demand will grow again to a downward -adjusted 86.3 mb/d. This forecast is based on the IMF assumption that the global economy will gradually recover from 2H09.
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:07 pm
I could see the likes of this becoming a serious craze if engineers were let free in the world. From Cleantechnica
Quote :
Netherland's train station gets world's-first energy-producing revolving door !
I’ve noticed an increasing trend recently of people trying to squeeze out energy from every possible nook and cranny. The latest example of this is the world’s first energy-generating revolving door located at Natuurcafe La Port in the Netherlands.
* » Read more on alternative energy * » See peer reviews of Renewable Energy Options at Green Home
The door, which will provide energy savings of about 4600 kWh each year, is part of a larger sustainable refurbishment of the railway station.
Natuurcafe’s door uses a generator that is driven by the energy applied when people pass through. Supercapacitators store the generated energy and provide a power supply for the ceiling’s LED lights. If the LED lights use up all the stored energy, the control unit switches to the building’s main energy supply.
A large display inside the railway station shows how much energy is being generated by the revolving door as a service to curious patrons.
Personally, I’d like to see the Natuurcafe amp up its energy-generating capacity with a piezoelectric floor.
You'll have to go to Cleantechnica to get that link to the piezoelectric floor.
I can see the likes of this turning up in hamster's wheels, exercise bikes in gyms, in the flush of your toilet ...
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:10 pm
That's a great idea and a brilliant way for new energy generation. The same thing should be done in gyms, all the exercise bikes should be hooked up to the power supply and generating electricity. Through these sort of innovations, real reductions in consumption of fossil fuels can be achieved.
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:55 pm
Auditor #9 wrote:
I could see the likes of this becoming a serious craze if engineers were let free in the world. From Cleantechnica
Quote :
Netherland's train station gets world's-first energy-producing revolving door !
I’ve noticed an increasing trend recently of people trying to squeeze out energy from every possible nook and cranny. The latest example of this is the world’s first energy-generating revolving door located at Natuurcafe La Port in the Netherlands.
* » Read more on alternative energy * » See peer reviews of Renewable Energy Options at Green Home
The door, which will provide energy savings of about 4600 kWh each year, is part of a larger sustainable refurbishment of the railway station.
Natuurcafe’s door uses a generator that is driven by the energy applied when people pass through. Supercapacitators store the generated energy and provide a power supply for the ceiling’s LED lights. If the LED lights use up all the stored energy, the control unit switches to the building’s main energy supply.
A large display inside the railway station shows how much energy is being generated by the revolving door as a service to curious patrons.
Personally, I’d like to see the Natuurcafe amp up its energy-generating capacity with a piezoelectric floor.
You'll have to go to Cleantechnica to get that link to the piezoelectric floor.
I can see the likes of this turning up in hamster's wheels, exercise bikes in gyms, in the flush of your toilet ...
Could an escalator not be balanced and geared to generate electricity? Or would it just be better to abolish them and make people walk?
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:30 am
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Action Area 3: Enhancing the Environment and Securing Energy Supplies
The EU has committed to reducing overall carbon emissions by 20% by 2020. Agreement on a climate change package in Copenhagen next year will further increase our responsibilities and we must plan for this transformation now. The International Energy Agency has also warned that the ‘era of cheap oil is over’. Ireland, which is over 90% reliant on imported fossil fuel, must alter this dangerous dependence. We need to protect our economy from future oil and gas supply shocks. Radically enhanced energy efficiency across all sectors of the economy, together with actions to diversify supply through investment in renewable energy will deliver reduced costs, reduced emissions and greater energy security.
The success of our economy is intimately related to how well we manage our environment. For example, tourism depends on high quality landscapes and built environments and certain high value-added parts of the food industry depend on Ireland’s ‘green image’ for competitive advantage. More fundamentally, for the purposes of this Framework, if we wish to keep talented Irish people working in Ireland, as well as attracting the most talented people from around the world to our shores, we cannot afford to offer a poor quality living environment. In addition, the environment and energy areas are beginning to provide very significant opportunities for industrial and enterprise development through Green Enterprise. Key actions: • The Government will increase the production of renewable electricity in a cost-effective manner to meet the new increased target of 40% of electricity from renewable resources by 2020; Good but a bit on the conservative side. • Over the next two years an estimated €400 million will be spent by the private sector building an additional 400mw of wind power to meet our 2010 target for 15% of our power to come from renewable electricity supplies; I'll be watching this one like a hawk • EirGrid will spend €4 billion between now and 2025 building a new electricity transmission system to tap into renewable energy resources; • The ESB has set out its own zero emissions corporate plan for 2030 and a related €22 billion long term investment budget; • Bord Gáis have set out a €5 billion investment strategy to develop the gas network and clean energy technologies; • The East West interconnector will be completed in 2012 while planning further interconnection to the UK and the Continent; East West interconnector ? But Moneypoint is already connected to Dublin or do they mean Ireland-Wales ? 2012 ... we'll see • A framework will be in place in early 2009 to support the development of auto-generation projects by large industry as well as micro-generation in the small business, agriculture and domestic level; I'd like to hear more about this. The CER makes a company wait 5 years before being allowed to enter the market if they want to generate electricity of 0.5MW+. Will this be reviewed ? • 21,000 smart meters will be placed in Irish homes as a test project prior to the roll out of the new smart grid to every home in the country; That's a small number I think and what's the justification for a pilot project ? Tech issues ? Is there a date by when this will all be concluded ? • We will fast-track development and commercialisation of ocean energy technologies under the Ocean Energy Development Programme 2008-2012; Living near the Ocean I'll be keeping my eyes peeled • We will ensure that the Commission for Energy Regulation carries out a fundamental review of energy prices and tariff methodologies which will take account of the needs of all energy consumers including the need to support economic competitiveness: Hmm .. we've had Regulatory issues of another kind lately are you sure it's going to be faithful and patriotic ? This one should be watched like a hawk too. • We will progress restructuring of the electricity sector through finalisation of the CER / ESB Asset Divestment Strategy by end year and the transfer of the national transmission assets to EirGrid; End which year ? 2009 ? • The consent process for energy developments on the foreshore will be modernised in 2009; • €30 million will be spent in 2009 helping the installation of better insulation in over 25,000 houses; Why spend it when people might get low cost loans to do it ? The country'll own the banks by then so ... • We are increasing the range of energy efficient equipment purchased by companies that can qualify for accelerated capital allowances, including energy efficient data-server systems and, vital in these times of high energy costs, electricity provision equipment and control systems; • We are pursuing national cycling and walking strategies and a cycling package for Dublin; • We will publish a National Sustainable Transport and Travel Action Plan early in 2009; • We will work towards our target of 10% of Ireland’s road transport fleet being electrically powered by 2020; • In the first quarter 2009 the Government will publish its National Energy Efficiency Action Plan including the targeted 33% improvement in energy efficiency in its own services by 2020; • Environmental considerations will be further integrated into the public procurement process in 2009, with the goal of bringing us in line with the best performers in Europe; • Current capital appraisal and cost-benefit analysis guidelines will be amended in early 2009 to incorporate best practice in reflecting the cost of CO2 emissions in cost benefit analyses; 18 • An announcement on the issue of a Carbon Levy, assisted by recommendations of the Commission of Taxation, will be made in Budget 2010. Particular attention will be paid to ensuring that any Levy does not impact adversely on the most vulnerable or on the economy; • Further appropriate modifications to the motor tax system will be considered to encourage continuous improvements in the efficiency of the car fleet and to encourage a move from advanced plug-in hybrid vehicles to full electric vehicles; Any chance you'll turn the SUV range into a farm vehicle to be used only off-road ? • The Irish Government will support measures at EU level to have a lower rate of VAT apply to eco-friendly products; Any chance of some ballpark figures? • A high-level Action Group on Green Enterprise will report to Government within four months, setting out an Action Plan for developing green enterprise in Ireland; • We will continue to support the development of eco- and green tourism. How ? By growing more forest walks ?? There's nothing in this document about forests. Godammit
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:57 am
Quote :
Pensioners to get free microwaveable slippers
A firm has donated 500 pairs of microwaveable slippers to older people to help them give winter temperatures the boot.
The Cozy Toze footwear manufactured by Longford-based Waveware is being distributed through Age Action Ireland.
Insoles in the slippers can be microwaved to keep the wearer warm, according to managing director James Connolly.
“Older people feel the cold more acutely because of poor circulation,” said Mr Connolly said.
“With rising fuel costs and very little extra in the last Budget, we hope that our slippers may warm the cockles on these cold winter nights.”
Age Action urged older people to ensure their homes are adequately heated – to between 18-21 degrees Celsius.
“The temperature in your home is crucial,” spokesman Eamon Timmins said.
“Medical research has found that when temperatures fall below 16 degrees Celsius there is an increased risk of respiratory problems.
“Where it drops below 12 degrees, the blood thickens and there is an increased risk of stroke and heart attack.”
Between 1,500 and 2,000 extra deaths occur during the winter in Ireland, compared to the summer.
Many of these are older people who die as a result of respiratory illness or cardiovascular disease.
Cold weather, inadequate heating, low incomes and poorly insulated homes are contributory factors in some of these deaths.
Age Action also urged people to check on their elderly neighbours during the Christmas and New Year period.
“Christmas can be a particularly difficult time for some older people as some of the meals on wheels and home help services they depend on take a break over the festive period,” said Mr Timmins.
“Amid the celebrations, it is important that vulnerable or lonely people are not forgotten.”
Gazprom, the Russian gas monopoly, on Monday reduced deliveries of gas for transit through Ukraine to Western European customers, saying that it was seeking to make up for gas stolen by Ukraine. Gazprom, which had already cut off all fuel supplies to Ukraine in a dispute over pricing, said any countries that suffered shortages as a result should blame Ukraine for not paying a fair price for Russia's natural gas.
The Russian announcement was, in essence, a partial Russian fuel embargo of Europe, something policy makers in Western capitals have feared for some time as relations with Moscow bottomed out last summer following the war in Georgia.
The announcement took the form of a conversation between Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and the chief executive of Gazprom, Aleksei Miller, during an evening newscast on Russian state television.
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:43 am
Gazprom, the Russian gas monopoly, on Monday reduced deliveries of gas for transit through Ukraine to Western European customers, saying that it was seeking to make up for gas stolen by Ukraine. Gazprom, which had already cut off all fuel supplies to Ukraine in a dispute over pricing, said any countries that suffered shortages as a result should blame Ukraine for not paying a fair price for Russia's natural gas.
The Russian announcement was, in essence, a partial Russian fuel embargo of Europe, something policy makers in Western capitals have feared for some time as relations with Moscow bottomed out last summer following the war in Georgia.
The announcement took the form of a conversation between Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and the chief executive of Gazprom, Aleksei Miller, during an evening newscast on Russian state television.
There has been a long tussle between Russia and the Ukraine over gas supplies and prices -
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:57 pm
UK to Gather Energy from Gas Pipelines Using Mini-Turbines
Mini turbines will be installed inside the UK’s gas pipeline grid later this year in an attempt to gather energy from pipeline pressure. The set-up will be tested in east London and should produce 20MW by 2010. If successful, future installations across the country could produce up to 1GW. That’s the same amount of power produced by a coal or nuclear power station.
The UK’s National Grid and a company called 2OC have teamed up to install the turbo expanders, which generate electricity when gas pressure is reduced. Each expander is only 20cm in diameter, but can generate a relatively impressive 1MW of electricity.
The technology for turbo expanders has been around until the 1980s, but up until now it was too expensive to pursue. With rising energy prices, the expanders have become a viable option.
Costs may also be reduced by combining the turbo expander with a combined heat and power (CHP) engine that can generate electricity and heat. This could boost the CHP’s efficiency to over 70 percent. The CHP engine could potentially run using vegetable oil from local rapeseed or synthetic oil made from wood.
None of these ideas have been tested on a large scale, however, so tangible results are probably many years away. CleanTechnica
Photo Credit: Flickr user rickz under a CC license
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:13 pm
A recent report by the Rocky Mountain Institute states that the U.S. electricity demand could drop by 34 percent if the most inefficient states caught up with the most efficient ones.
Much of what we cover here at EcoGeek has to do with efficiency improvements because reducing energy use really seems to be the ultimate goal, but it's interesting to see just how much energy could be saved by upping efficiency. The report concludes that if the 40 under-performing states made improvements that put them on par with the 10 most efficient, 1.2 million gigawatts would be saved every year. This amounts to 62% of the country's coal-fired electric power.
States like California and New York were recognized as the most efficient with almost twice the GDP per kWh than the national average. While that presents a large gap, the report argues that the necessary efficiency improvements will be fairly easy and could be made by 2020.
The institute plans to release two more reports over the next few months detailing how states and utilities can close the efficiency gap, including policy changes and practical implementation. If you'd like to read the full report titled Assessing the Electric Productivity Gap and the US Efficiency Opportunity, click here (PDF).
via Business Green
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:12 pm
This is very interesting and goes with the feeling in my bones that targets for carbon cuts are very timid and that gains could be made without enormous investment.
Please will someone tell me is it really economic or necessary to have street lighting on all night. Flying across Europe or the US I find the amount of illumination unbelievable, at 3 o'clock in the morning. Why is it not off between 1 am and 5 am say? Is it to do with the amount of energy it takes for these sodium bulbs to get started? Or could they be switched off?
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Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:15 pm
Sure isn't even their voltage less efficient? They use 120V whereas we use 230V for domestic supply.