Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:24 pm
Auditor #9 wrote:
Geothermal: Google are investing €10 million in the technology below. It's a simple enough idea but must be very costly or tricky to implement otherwise we'd have done it by now, wouldn't we? If we achieve it then it's a near infinite renewable source of heat or electrcity or both. What the problems are with it, God only knows but if humankind managed to do it cost-effectively then surely it would revolutionise energy production overnight...
Treehugger wrote:
Yesterday Google announced that it was getting into the geothermal power game, investing over $10 million into researching Enhanced Geothermal Systems. It is estimated that using this technology, just 2% of the heat below North America would easily supply all of the United States’ current energy needs.
Now, a new report shows similarly large geothermal potential in Australia: An Australian government scientist told Reuters that 1% of the nation’s untapped geothermal potential could create enough energy for 26,000 years.
I've a bit of experience with geothermal. Unless you can find a way of generating the power for the pump with reneables, it is not worth the effort (unless you live next to a volcano)
Obviously that’s easier said that done. A new report from the Australian Geothermal Energy Association outlines what can be done to make geothermal a greater part of Australia’s energy future:
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:24 am
As you can see from the new dashboard graph on the right, oil is close to $90 a barrel now. Why is this? Demand is falling, I read. It's doubtful that it will last at that price though because for every couple of percentage drop in the cost of oil, after a short period of a few weeks at that price then the equivalent of the capital lost in Lehman's gets pumped into the world economy.
It's a surely a breather for industry and consumers at the moment and may return to high prices in the near term. On the other hand could the $150 heights we saw during the last few months have been a classic bubble as Ard-Taoiseach maintained? Funny things also going on with the American elections as this fella says
Quote :
Ramblings about oil, elections, and the economy - Part One
Demand in the US is down. Speculators make their money. Hedge funds that put billions into the sector, are running. And other ideas are being sloshed around. i.e. Having made more money than any companies in history, American Oil companies can now bank it, and get an oil friendly replacement for the current oil friendly Chief.
Oil has a way of falling before an election. Gasoline prices have fallen before federal elections almost every year since 1990,and almost always this has been attributed to supply and demand.
In 2006, oil fell $.85 from August to November before the elections, with oil futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange closing at $57.88 a barrel, down sharply from the record high of that year of $78.40 on July 14.
Today the price of oil started at $118, having almost hit 150 a barrel not a month ago. Experts say that the weakening American economy means that America needs less oil.
Whatever the reasons, the oil and stock cycle in the months leading up to elections is a discussion that cannot be avoided. Back in September, 2000, the NY Times wrote:
This will be the 26th presidential election since Charles H. Dow put his industrial average together in 1897. So far, its record as an election prognosticator is 22-3 — not perfect, but at least as good as the average pollster.
The indicator says that if the Dow rises from the end of July through the end of October — the three months when investors are most attuned to the political season — the incumbent party will win the election. If the Dow falls, however, the incumbents will be thrown out. Perhaps a rising stock market reflects contented voters.
If the current oil slide continues, propping up the Dow and the markets, it would put a John in the White House, according to the Dow factor.
Meanwhile, consumption of oil worldwide continues to rise at steady rates. China, India, and the developing world are chugging oil. OPEC says that demand is up, however less than it was - in other words the world needs more and more oil everyday, but less that they thought it would need.
Domestically, the pressure to extract more oil from off-shore and on-shore drilling is great. The campaign trail is being paved with arguments about energy policies, and who-can-drill-where arguments. Not that more oil wells will lower the price of oil on a huge scale, or help our economy. But it sounds good, as if every American’s patriotic duty is to drill for oil in their backyard to help America become “energy independent” or whatever that means.
Americans are changing their habits quickly to adjust to the $4 a gallon world, and that is good ultimately for America. Alternate energy sources and means of transportation are everywhere, and more Americans are using mass-transit than ever before. But will falling oil prices convince Americans that the crisis is over, and that they can go back to driving Hummers, Yukons and Ecalades, and put a John in the White House? Will falling oil prices kill Israeli electric car projects in Israel and in California? Too early to predict the future, I say.
Ryanair (and other European airlines) hedged too high. The ESB hedged at the peak of the oil price - I opened a thread on this here.
Consequently oil is falling but who of us are going to actually benefit from this in the medium term? Most of the services we use whether it is domestic electricity and transport or the cost to companies which supply us with goods and service, are already tied into high prices for the forseeable future.
I'm just after writing aboot the oil sit-yee-a-shun on the ISEQ threat but it is my belief based upon past govt responses that a sustained oil price level of about $40-50 pb (anything under $80-100 pb really) would prove as a huge disincentive for govts to pursue an alternate and comprehensive energy agenda.
The US has known since the 1970's about the over-reliance on foreign oil reserves to run and maintain an economy but decided to manipulate the market through the use of the dollar to maintain its reliance on black gold. It just doesn't have the stomach to tell its electorate that the hay-days of surplus energy are over for good and that we may have to change the way we live - ie our standard of living may fall. The alternative of sustainable living (which can be as rewarding if not more so) isn't palatable to the US govt. But then what govt on the globe has had the guts to come clean?
My analysis is based upon peak oil discovery and is open to criticism and rebuttal. I'd be very glad to hear of alternative viewpoints or govts who have comprehensive energy policies that are different to Ireland's or the US model.
Ryanair (and other European airlines) hedged too high. The ESB hedged at the peak of the oil price - I opened a thread on this here.
Consequently oil is falling but who of us are going to actually benefit from this in the medium term? Most of the services we use whether it is domestic electricity and transport or the cost to companies which supply us with goods and service, are already tied into high prices for the forseeable future.
Well you're right of course - the price is too high - it's not a reprieve on the forecourts. These traders bought too much at such a high price and now the petrol stations have to sell it all at that price? Is this the answer that the Watchdog will get when it investigates why the forecourt price isn't falling?
Quote :
Watchdog calls for petrol price probe
A CONSUMER chief has demanded an immediate investigation into why petrol prices are not falling at the pumps.
The Competition Authority should carry out an immediate investigation into why prices for petrol and diesel remained high, even though the price of a barrel of oil has plummeted in the past two months, Dermott Jewell of the Consumers Association of Ireland said last night.
Even though oil has fallen to $92 a barrel, Mr Jewell said it had not led to reduced prices. In July, the price of a barrel was $147, but prices at the pumps had not changed since.
"The extraordinary situation continues," he said.
"The increases were put down to the price of a barrel, and then it was put forward that it was a currency issue. The reasons given are poor. We should be seeing reduced charges at the pumps. ... Topaz at Frankfield on the Kinsale Road in Cork was charging 126.9c and 133.9c, while Mullens Spar and Esso in Cartron, Sligo, was 127.9c and 135.9c.
Maxol on the Navan Road in Dublin 7 was charging 128.9c for petrol and 135.9c for diesel.
The AA said that prices should fall at the pumps over the coming weeks, and that it took four weeks for lower oil prices to manifest as cheaper fuel at the pumps.
"We have looked to see if petrol prices rise as soon as oil goes up, but we've never seen it done on a systematic basis," spokesman Conor Faughnan said.
"If we don't see prices fall in the next two or three weeks, we will look for answers then."
The Irish Petrol Retailers Association was not available for comment, but has previously defended the high prices being charged, saying that while crude oil prices have fallen in recent weeks, exchange rate fluctuations mean the price cannot be cut.
I'm just after writing aboot the oil sit-yee-a-shun on the ISEQ threat but it is my belief based upon past govt responses that a sustained oil price level of about $40-50 pb (anything under $80-100 pb really) would prove as a huge disincentive for govts to pursue an alternate and comprehensive energy agenda.
The US has known since the 1970's about the over-reliance on foreign oil reserves to run and maintain an economy but decided to manipulate the market through the use of the dollar to maintain its reliance on black gold. It just doesn't have the stomach to tell its electorate that the hay-days of surplus energy are over for good and that we may have to change the way we live - ie our standard of living may fall. The alternative of sustainable living (which can be as rewarding if not more so) isn't palatable to the US govt. But then what govt on the globe has had the guts to come clean?
My analysis is based upon peak oil discovery and is open to criticism and rebuttal. I'd be very glad to hear of alternative viewpoints or govts who have comprehensive energy policies that are different to Ireland's or the US model.
It seems Portugal, Spain, Denmark and a lot of other countries in Europe including the Germans are pursuing serious and ambitious renewable energy programmes. England too and we'll probably be caught up in that too as time goes by but the sooner the better.
Spain has had a record electricity generation from wind of 41% - is that what you mean by different alternative policies? America itself is also going for wind in a big way and could see the car market turn over completely in the next decade with the likes of the 40 mile battery/petrol hybrid Chevrolet Volt coming around in 2011.
Hi auditor, rockyracoon and johnfas. I've heard the 80 dollar mark bandied around as the viability level for wind as an alternative. With improved technology and economies of scale this may come down.
We've a few threads that hit on various aspects of renewables and energy costs (solar, tidal, esb, oil prices) - I think the discussion is a bit too dispersed at the moment. Would it be o.k. to start a new one that focuses on what Ireland needs to do to achieve energy self-sufficiency/sound energy policy and to cut emissions/ become carbon free? Any other suggestions for a unified thread? Should this thread be the one?
Hi auditor, rockyracoon and johnfas. I've heard the 80 dollar mark bandied around as the viability level for wind as an alternative. With improved technology and economies of scale this may come down.
We've a few threads that hit on various aspects of renewables and energy costs (solar, tidal, esb, oil prices) - I think the discussion is a bit too dispersed at the moment. Would it be o.k. to start a new one that focuses on what Ireland needs to do to achieve energy self-sufficiency/sound energy policy and to cut emissions/ become carbon free? Any other suggestions for a unified thread? Should this thread be the one?
This used to be called "Can America switch to Renewables in 10 years" so if you'd like to change it to reflect what Ireland could or should then of course do so and it's an accumulation of energy threads already. If you could leave the other threads seperate at the moment - the ESB one, wind, solar tidal, wood as they are just threads for watching the movements and progress but this one is the comment thread itself.
There will be of course crossover with the ISEQ one.
Hi auditor, rockyracoon and johnfas. I've heard the 80 dollar mark bandied around as the viability level for wind as an alternative. With improved technology and economies of scale this may come down.
We've a few threads that hit on various aspects of renewables and energy costs (solar, tidal, esb, oil prices) - I think the discussion is a bit too dispersed at the moment. Would it be o.k. to start a new one that focuses on what Ireland needs to do to achieve energy self-sufficiency/sound energy policy and to cut emissions/ become carbon free? Any other suggestions for a unified thread? Should this thread be the one?
This used to be called "Can America switch to Renewables in 10 years" so if you'd like to change it to reflect what Ireland could or should then of course do so and it's an accumulation of energy threads already. If you could leave the other threads seperate at the moment - the ESB one, wind, solar tidal, wood as they are just threads for watching the movements and progress but this one is the comment thread itself.
There will be of course crossover with the ISEQ one.
Could we call it something like "An Energy Plan for Ireland" - any better ideas ?
Michael O'Leary is just on Bloomberg saying they'll break even this year if oil stays around 100. He says they "screwed up" their hedging strategy this year by buying at 120. He says they are keeping the price under daily review before they hedge again.
Isn't this shite or what? There must be money there for investment in more stable sources of fuel. On the other hand there was an issue with speculation that drove the price up towards 150. At the back of it all there's the spectre of Final Oil.
Stable oil has to be a growth area in order to smooth out the oil-price issue. If there's funny banking thrown into the mix too then how can the market be seen to be normal? Unless the fall in price is purely down to demand.
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:24 am
Auditor #9 wrote:
rockyracoon wrote:
I'm just after writing aboot the oil sit-yee-a-shun on the ISEQ threat but it is my belief based upon past govt responses that a sustained oil price level of about $40-50 pb (anything under $80-100 pb really) would prove as a huge disincentive for govts to pursue an alternate and comprehensive energy agenda.
The US has known since the 1970's about the over-reliance on foreign oil reserves to run and maintain an economy but decided to manipulate the market through the use of the dollar to maintain its reliance on black gold. It just doesn't have the stomach to tell its electorate that the hay-days of surplus energy are over for good and that we may have to change the way we live - ie our standard of living may fall. The alternative of sustainable living (which can be as rewarding if not more so) isn't palatable to the US govt. But then what govt on the globe has had the guts to come clean?
My analysis is based upon peak oil discovery and is open to criticism and rebuttal. I'd be very glad to hear of alternative viewpoints or govts who have comprehensive energy policies that are different to Ireland's or the US model.
It seems Portugal, Spain, Denmark and a lot of other countries in Europe including the Germans are pursuing serious and ambitious renewable energy programmes. England too and we'll probably be caught up in that too as time goes by but the sooner the better.
Spain has had a record electricity generation from wind of 41% - is that what you mean by different alternative policies? America itself is also going for wind in a big way and could see the car market turn over completely in the next decade with the likes of the 40 mile battery/petrol hybrid Chevrolet Volt coming around in 2011.
Actually this weeks New Scientist has an article on electrical vehicles and it mentions the volt. It's an interesting enough article but is lacking in overall analysis of the economics of the car market. It also mentions a program being put in place in Denmark and I think Sweden, where you could lease an electric lithium-ion battery from the forecourt.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:29 am
Denmark is putting in place 50,000 forecourt facilities for exchanging batteries for electric cars that have been charged with wind power. This is good, because it can help mop up the excess power problem with wind power. It would appear to be ideal for Ireland.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:50 am
cactus flower wrote:
Denmark is putting in place 50,000 forecourt facilities for exchanging batteries for electric cars that have been charged with wind power. This is good, because it can help mop up the excess power problem with wind power. It would appear to be ideal for Ireland.
Genius! Hope it works well for them. It is obvious from today that, even in the absence of significant supply concerns, that the oil price will now start to spike every time people in the markets get spooked and look for a financial safe haven. We are going to need energy alternatives sooner rather than later. Either that or it's economic armageddon, here we come
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:56 am
The Chevy Volt is out soon and goes 40 miles on the battery but also has a petrol engine.
The oil price is doing funny things now alright. I saw a second hand 240 gallon diesel tank for sale there the other day and seriously thought of buying it and filling it with diesel now that it's down or is it.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:19 am
I’ve been looking through my posts earlier in the year on the subject of the then rapidly-escalating price of crude…
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
expat girl wrote:
Only if an alternative energy source appears. Optimism won't get us out of this. Sticking up windfarms, nuclear plants and tidal generatos might just, along with plugin points in every estate for electric cars...
I understand that oil is running out, I understand that demand is rising strongly, especially in China and India, I understand that there is a fundamental reason why oil prices should, in general, be rising.
However, there are some times when price rises de-couple from the fundamentals which created them. I feel that the precipitous and vertiginous rise in the price of oil on global markets is consistent with a market that has a smack of a bubble about it.
Looking at that graph, I feel we've already had take off, first sell off, bear trap and we're well into media attention. I think enthusiasm, greed and delusion are the next few stages through which we will smartly progress. We'll be ripe for a big fall after all these surges.
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
I feel that we are in a bubble market. The price is rising too fast. Too much speculation is occurring. I feel it could top out over the Summer and crash spectacularly over the Autumn/Winter.
It seems like what I posted has been proven to be true!
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:45 am
So the Regulator is looking for a hike in gas prices for next month ? Is this anything to do with the fall of the Euro or that we are going to start entering a period of inflation soon ? Don't we get plenty of gas from Cork ?
The regulator granted a 20% rise in the price already recently...
Quote :
Bord Gáis is to apply for an increase in gas prices of between 5% to 8% this week.
The rise is less than had been anticipated, because the gas prices on world markets have fallen in recent months. Any increase would take effect in the New Year.
In September gas prices increased by 20%. In discussions with the regulator, Bord Gáis sought a rise of up to 38% due to a surge in world gas prices.
Quote :
Meanwhile, the Commission for Energy Regulation has launched a new website for domestic energy customers to help householders to become more 'bill aware'.
The new website, www.energycustomers.ie provides customers with an overview of the electricity and natural gas markets in Ireland.
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:25 am
Nice website, but not copyable here and very limited information so far. 11% renewables, imported gas (Russian?) is way the biggest part of our electricity generation. There is still some gas from Cork but it is much reduced since the 1980s. A surprisingly high amount of coal.
Does anyone out there know how the ESB decides what fuel sources to use, and what regulations or law they are bound by when they do it?
Great news for tidal energy yesterday - an Irish firm OpenHydro has been contracted to build an underwater turbine off Brittany by a French company EDF, known as a nuclear energy producer - its a 20 million euro project.
When are we getting ours here?
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:40 pm
Good questions cactus - I wonder does anyone know if the ESB has still some monopoly here. Or do the EU competition laws forbid a thrust at 100% or even 200% renewable by our government if they wanted to give the tax incentives ... ? God knows how those laws work - do they enforce a range of types of production of energy or what ? i.e. there must be coal, you can't forbid nuclear, alternatives can't be monopolistic. You'd wonder how far those laws stop short of making it obligatory for states to reintroduce antique machinery for a sense of balance or equitablility. New EU Directive: 5% of energy must come from water mills by 2019 ...
I still think the ESB has a sinister monopoly
Anyway, here's some algae news - 100 hectares in Spain getting turned into a €92 million algae-production plant where CO2 will get eaten by the algae (here we're thinking of pumping the CO2 into cavities under the Old Head of Kinsale ... )
Quote :
GreenFuel, a startup that uses recycled CO2 to grow algae, which can be turned into biofuels and feed, says tonight that it is in the process of building 100-hectares of algae greenhouses — at the cost of $92 million — that can produce 25,000 tons of algae biomass per year. The algae farms are being built in conjunction with Spanish engineering company Aurantia at Holcim’s cement plant near Jerez, Spain.
GreenFuel says it has entered the second phase of this project, which includes harvesting a 100m2 algae bioreactor, and says the project is meant to prove that the process of turning recycled carbon from industrial emissions into algae is economical. Back in March Xconomy reported that GreenFuel had reached an agreement worth up to $92 million to build an algae-based fuel plant in Europe; sounds like this is it.
The announcement is a significant step in GreenFuel’s plans to bring the algae growing technology to commercialization. But the road hasn’t been easy for the 7-year-old company. In June 2007 GreenFuel began a “7-step turnaround plan” that included layoffs, CEO switches, and the shutting down of a greenhouse in Arizona after discovering that its algae tech was more expensive than first planned.
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:41 pm
Peak Oil - it hasn't gone away. Back to keeping an eye on the algae farming or worse .. Oil has declined in output says themodernmystic and the FT - by 9%
Quote :
World will struggle to meet oil demand
By Carola Hoyos and Javier Blas in London
Published: October 28 2008 23:32 | Last updated: October 28 2008 23:32
Output from the world’s oilfields is declining faster than previously thought, the first authoritative public study of the biggest fields shows.
Without extra investment to raise production, the natural annual rate of output decline is 9.1 per cent, the International Energy Agency says in its annual report, the World Energy Outlook, a draft of which has been obtained by the Financial Times.
The findings suggest the world will struggle to produce enough oil to make up for steep declines in existing fields, such as those in the North Sea, Russia and Alaska, and meet long-term demand. The effort will become even more acute as prices fall and investment decisions are delayed.
The IEA, the oil watchdog, forecasts that China, India and other developing countries’ demand will require investments of $360bn each year until 2030.
The agency says even with investment, the annual rate of output decline is 6.4 per cent.
The decline will not necessarily be felt in the next few years because demand is slowing down, but with the expected slowdown in investment the eventual effect will be magnified, oil executives say.
“The future rate of decline in output from producing oilfields as they mature is the single most important determinant of the amount of new capacity that will need to be built globally to meet demand,” the IEA says.
The watchdog warned that the world needed to make a “significant increase in future investments just to maintain the current level of production”.
The battle to replace mature oilfields’ output could even offset the decline in demand growth, which has given the industry – already struggling to find enough supply to meet needs, especially from China – a reprieve in the past few months.
The IEA predicted in its draft report, due to be published next month, that demand would be damped, “reflecting the impact of much higher oil prices and slightly slower economic growth”.
It expects oil consumption in 2030 to reach 106.4m barrels a day, down from last year’s forecast of 116.3m b/d.
The projections could yet be revised lower because the draft report was written a month ago, before the global financial crisis deepened after the collapse of Lehman Brothers.
All the increase in oil demand until 2030 comes from emerging countries, while consumption in developed countries declines.
As a result, the share of rich countries in global demand will drop from last year’s 59 per cent to less than half of the total in 2030.
This is the clearest indication yet that the focus of the industry on the demand – not just the supply – side is moving away from the US, Europe and Japan, towards emerging nations.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:46 am
That article is quite right Auditor and it supports the view that the general trend of oil prices is upward, regardless of the current slump in which we find it. Oil should regain its Summer heights by the end of the decade.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Clean Energy & Efficiency Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:06 pm
Intel are coming out with a low-voltage chip that will use less power therefore put less CO2 in the atmosphere.
Intel’s Nehalem Chip Will Save $2-Billion In Energy Costs And Up To 20 Terawatt Hours.
Intel’s new microprocessor was designed with the environment in mind. The company says the chip is not only rocket fast but is also extremely energy efficient. The chip—code named Nehalem—follows the Intel Core II and IV series processors.
“Going into this project … we insisted on energy efficiency … and power,” said Steve Gunther, an engineer for Intel. Adding more processing speed to a chip often requires pulling a lot more energy. Meeting this challenge was not an easy one, he notes.
Nehalem engineers had to tweak both the chip’s clock cycle and its operating voltage, both of which typically eat up a lot of energy. The biggest energy cut came from reducing usage on an idle machine; a lot of the chip’s life-cycle is spent idle. So that makes sense, if you’re not in the room…turn off the lights.
There’s a catch, though. The chip still needs to be “active” enough to receive instructions. Historically, chips remained fully powered during the idle stage in order to catch any instructions thrown their way—not anymore.
Intel estimates that switching to Nehalem processors could save $2 billion dollars in energy costs and up to 20 terawatt hours. The company also suggests that 2 percent of all carbon dioxide emissions globally are from computers. Maybe it’s time to upgrade?
Portal 
