The Lisbon Debate Continues

ibis wrote:

Kate P wrote:

Thanks for that long and detailed answer about EU legislation, ibis. It's much appreciated.

Facts...not politics!

ibis; the new spokesai for Libertas!

Noel Whelan is wrong !

What's this
http://www.saxonbooks.co.uk/laeken_declaration.htm

http://www.eapn.org/code/en/hp.asp
http://www.eapn.ie/

Lord, that was a bizarre piece from John Palmer. "And remember Spain passed this in a referendum. Are their votes are to be ignored?"

WTF?


And the only people in Europe against this treaty are right wing euro-sceptics...

MikeW wrote:

Lord, that was a bizarre piece from John Palmer. "And remember Spain passed this in a referendum. Are their votes are to be ignored?"

WTF?


And the only people in Europe against this treaty are right wing euro-sceptics...

Ultra conservative, far right wing, pro-life, eurosceptic nutters is, I believe, the full title. 

Good stuff on Q + A. I can't take it all in though, me head is a feckin' mess at this stage.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Good stuff on Q + A. I can't take it all in though, me head is a feckin' mess at this stage.

There's a repeat on at 2:15. Can't wait.

Auditor #9 wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Good stuff on Q + A. I can't take it all in though, me head is a feckin' mess at this stage.

There's a repeat on at 2:15. Can't wait.

As in...in 3 hours ?

cookiemonster wrote:

MikeW wrote:

Lord, that was a bizarre piece from John Palmer. "And remember Spain passed this in a referendum. Are their votes are to be ignored?"

WTF?


And the only people in Europe against this treaty are right wing euro-sceptics...

Ultra conservative, far right wing, pro-life, eurosceptic nutters is, I believe, the full title.

Suits you, sir!

Ibis, why did John Palmer say Spain and Lux had a Ref. That's not right is it ? Did you see q+a ?

Auditor #9 wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Good stuff on Q + A. I can't take it all in though, me head is a feckin' mess at this stage.

There's a repeat on at 2:15. Can't wait.

Go to www.rte.ie/news
and on the left hand side click on 'TV Programmes' and there's a list of most of the current affairs programmes on RTE which you should be able to watch online.
As I type tonight's Q&A isn't up there yet but it should be on within the next hour or two.
That link is much better than the normal www.rte.ie and I was going to suggest it be put on the side where all the other news links are.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Ibis, why did John Palmer say Spain and Lux had a Ref. That's not right is it ? Did you see q+a ?

Never watch TV (well, not since 1979). Spain and Luxembourg had referendums for the EU Constitution, if that's any help?

ibis wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Ibis, why did John Palmer say Spain and Lux had a Ref. That's not right is it ? Did you see q+a ?

Never watch TV (well, not since 1979). Spain and Luxembourg had referendums for the EU Constitution, if that's any help?

Oops. Yes, sorry, I forgot about the TV thing. How do you know what all these people look like ? Or does it not matter to you ?

Yes, I reckon that's what he was talking about, I misheard lots of stuff I'm sure.

I know I'm off topic, but is the full text of the Crotty judgement online ? I'd like to get this Constitutional milestone carved on my my medulla for future reference.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

ibis wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Ibis, why did John Palmer say Spain and Lux had a Ref. That's not right is it ? Did you see q a ?

Never watch TV (well, not since 1979). Spain and Luxembourg had referendums for the EU Constitution, if that's any help?

Oops. Yes, sorry, I forgot about the TV thing. How do you know what all these people look like ? Or does it not matter to you ?

Doesn't matter a bit to me! I would know some of them from news pictures, but I find it better to think about what they're saying rather than watching them say it, I think.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Yes, I reckon that's what he was talking about, I misheard lots of stuff I'm sure.

I know I'm off topic, but is the full text of the Crotty judgement online ? I'd like to get this Constitutional milestone carved on my my medulla for future reference.

Here you go.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Yes, I reckon that's what he was talking about, I misheard lots of stuff I'm sure.

It was what he was talking about, but you didn't mishear. He used it as a reason not to kill Lisbon, though how that jived with France and Netherlands I'm not sure.

He has appeared a good bit over the last couple of days, but I don't quite get why his opinion is significant?

MikeW wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Yes, I reckon that's what he was talking about, I misheard lots of stuff I'm sure.

It was what he was talking about, but you didn't mishear. He used it as a reason not to kill Lisbon, though how that jived with France and Netherlands I'm not sure.

He has appeared a good bit over the last couple of days, but I don't quite get why his opinion is significant?

Mike, I never heard of the chap until tonight, and his opinion is not significant to me.
However, I thought I heard him saying Spain and Lux were havin a Ref on Lisbon. You are saying I heard it correctly. So he was lying ?

Or else they were due to have a Ref on EU constitution , but ratification ceased due to Fr and Neth.

No, they did have a referendum on the Constitution, and it passed in both countries. He was refering to it in much the same fashion as the No side uses France and Netherlands, but with even less justification.

And Romania apparently, didn't know that. In Spain BTW it got 77% of the vote on 43% turnout.

Edit: Ah, because it was part of the accession treaty. Makes sense. Luxembourg was 56.5 - 43.5 btw.

Lisbon II looking more of a possibility

Independant.ie

From the CLR today, d'Estaing, in an interview with the Irish Times yesterday, takes one foot out of his mouth just to put the other in..

HERE

What if Germany rejects Lisbon ?
http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-if-germany-rejects-lisbon.html

According to the above blog, Germany and Italy are not hot favourites to unanimously approve this Treaty either, whichever way they vote.

I'm sure this kind of thing has happened in the run up to other treaty ratifications or has this one been the most divisive so far ?

Thread also on p.ie "German Left challenging EU Treaty":
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=37826

In today's Independant you have a classic example in the genre of an establishment journalist losing his temper about the freewill of the population. You could blame it as insulting if it was not so ridiculous.

Auditor #9 wrote:

From the CLR today, d'Estaing, in an interview with the Irish Times yesterday, takes one foot out of his mouth just to put the other in..

HERE

WorldbyStorm is posting up a storm over there since Lisbon. He missed out I think that Giscard in the same interview revealed that "even students and housewives" should be able to understand the Treaty".

http://djnozem.blogspot.com/2008/06/euroblog-coverage-irish-no.html

This is a link to a great list of international blogs on the No vote - recommended.

It seems like a good time to bump this thread, now that the Sarkozy visit is over.

The Lisbon Treaty can't be ratified without unanimity and is therefore dead. The possibility of a second Referendum in Ireland as a way of ratifiying it looks increasingly unlikely. A Conservative government in the U.K. (a probability at this stage) would be under extreme pressure to hold a referendum.

Is the Constitution/Reform Treaty project dying with a whimper?
In the absence of the bones of the Constitution project, will we see concerted attempts to introduce the meat throught other means and fora?

cactus flower wrote:

Is the Constitution/Reform Treaty project dying with a whimper?
In the absence of the bones of the Constitution project, will we see concerted attempts to introduce the meat throught other means and fora?

Wasn't there a suggestion that Lisbon lite could be introduced via the Croatia accession treaty?