Arguments about climate change

Auditor #9 wrote:

ibis wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Also, there must be some climate effects coming out of the sudden reduction in CO2 that is happening now - wouldn't this be a real test of a climate model now ?

There's no reduction in CO2 happening - there's a reduction in the rate of increase.

Sorry yes that's what I meant. The level that's an equilibrium for us should be what - 350 ppm or something ? And now it's approaching 550 ppm... ?

If CO2 were to be reducing then we'd have to kill off all the plant and animal life and more first no ? Are there notable effects of a slowdown in the rate of increase that you know of though ?

Bad things don't happen quite as fast?

Quote :

Ever tried to reason with someone who honestly believes that global warming is a capitalist/masonic/them conspiracy

Yes, regularly. Also, he can't tell the difference between weather and climate:

youngdan wrote:

Well I believe the global warming thing is a load of tin foil baloney. The quicker Ireland gets hit with a 200 million euro fine the better. Some on this site say it is revenue neutral. Well let them pay it in that case.

When they are starving and freezing to death they will still be worried about global warming. I am looking out the window through the ice and it looks like the North Pole with a snow storm on the way.

Some lad called Eamon Ryan was gibberjabbering about green stuff today and hopefully I will find it on u-tube. Is he not the same toolbox that was on the Mayo clip.

In his defence, he's an engineer, not a scientist.

Well due to the climate today resembling the Artic, school is cancelled. Luckily for me I have this video of the global warming scam to watch to pass the time

http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/blancostemrecht/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle_Documentary_Film.aspx

youngdan wrote:

Well due to the climate today resembling the Artic, school is cancelled. Luckily for me I have this video of the global warming scam to watch to pass the time

http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/blancostemrecht/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle_Documentary_Film.aspx

That is very nice for you youngdan, you are truly enlightened

Truely cold anyway

It is now freezing and pelting snow. The only birds to be seen are a few penguins. A 15 seater van is not very good in the snow. I should have bought a horse drawn sled instead.

Al Gore says I am going to melt but in the meantime I have got to check the antifreeze before this ice age freezes me in permanently.

Are you warm enough there in your house though, seriously youngdan ? Tisn't too cold here at all at all - the wind was very windy today - could have been a record day for electricity generation.

Seriously though - have you got plenty of warmth there - blankets, fuel, hot-water bottles, Ready Brek ?

Rest assured Audi that everytime I see Al Gore gaining a pound weight I buy an extra blanket.

A lot of people were without power for a week but we escaped that and we will see what this storm brings. If this is global warming I would not like to see global cooling

youngdan wrote:

Rest assured Audi that everytime I see Al Gore gaining a pound weight I buy an extra blanket.

A lot of people were without power for a week but we escaped that and we will see what this storm brings. If this is global warming I would not like to see global cooling

Global cooling would probably involve less wind. More heat = more energy = more wind.

ibis wrote:

youngdan wrote:

Rest assured Audi that everytime I see Al Gore gaining a pound weight I buy an extra blanket.

A lot of people were without power for a week but we escaped that and we will see what this storm brings. If this is global warming I would not like to see global cooling

Global cooling would probably involve less wind. More heat = more energy = more wind.

Peculiarly I remember it being windier when I was younger but that's not scientific obviously. It could be to do with lights going much more than they do now. Are lines being buried a lot more ?

What you're saying above, if true ibis, is a very thermostatic situation; the more wind there is the more advantage that could be taken of that wind to generate energy; the less CO2 that is emitted as a result ...

It's like a surfer making his own wave or something ..

I expect the entire global warming thing to fade away. Nothing like record cold temps to set people thinking.

The bigger reason is that it is no longer needed as the economy is collapsing without it.

The impoverishing of the masses is well under way even though I was told it couldn't happened 18 months ago.

Just wait to see the changes the next 3 months bring.

youngdan wrote:

I expect the entire global warming thing to fade away. Nothing like record cold temps to set people thinking.

The bigger reason is that it is no longer needed as the economy is collapsing without it.

The impoverishing of the masses is well under way even though I was told it couldn't happened 18 months ago.

Just wait to see the changes the next 3 months bring.

People are going on about how this is the coolest year "since 2000" - as if that proved something other than their own stupidity. Trends don't go along straight lines - they fluctuate around a changing mean. If the world warms by 10 degrees, there will still be youngdans pointing out that some summer or other is the coolest for a decade, and still thinking it's something other than a slightly fancy way of saying "hey, I don't understand the science at all".

But then, we know people don't understand these things, because otherwise we wouldn't be in the mess we're in, eh? Both economies and science are so much more complex than most people can grasp, that they revert to dealing with it in the time honoured primitive way - ascribe it to a conscious agent. The modern version is a conspiracy, but the doors marked "creationism" and "god did it" are right next door.

Hurry up with that 10 degrees.

The economic crisis was easily predicted and there is nothing complicated about it. The same thing happens with every bubble, it bursts.

What is more you havn't seen anything yet. So just wait and see.

ibis wrote:

youngdan wrote:

I expect the entire global warming thing to fade away. Nothing like record cold temps to set people thinking.

The bigger reason is that it is no longer needed as the economy is collapsing without it.

The impoverishing of the masses is well under way even though I was told it couldn't happened 18 months ago.

Just wait to see the changes the next 3 months bring.

People are going on about how this is the coolest year "since 2000" - as if that proved something other than their own stupidity. Trends don't go along straight lines - they fluctuate around a changing mean. If the world warms by 10 degrees, there will still be youngdans pointing out that some summer or other is the coolest for a decade, and still thinking it's something other than a slightly fancy way of saying "hey, I don't understand the science at all".

But then, we know people don't understand these things, because otherwise we wouldn't be in the mess we're in, eh? Both economies and science are so much more complex than most people can grasp, that they revert to dealing with it in the time honoured primitive way - ascribe it to a conscious agent. The modern version is a conspiracy, but the doors marked "creationism" and "god did it" are right next door.

Next thing will be human sacrifice to appease the angry gods.

youngdan wrote:

Hurry up with that 10 degrees.

The economic crisis was easily predicted and there is nothing complicated about it. The same thing happens with every bubble, it bursts.

What is more you havn't seen anything yet. So just wait and see.

The sad thing is, youngdan - neither have you. But you just keep on believing "it ain't happening". Any sudden shift in climate will make the current economic crisis look like a storm in a teacup, because when all's said and done, it won't stop people growing food, and climate change will.

ibis wrote:

youngdan wrote:

I expect the entire global warming thing to fade away. Nothing like record cold temps to set people thinking.

The bigger reason is that it is no longer needed as the economy is collapsing without it.

The impoverishing of the masses is well under way even though I was told it couldn't happened 18 months ago.

Just wait to see the changes the next 3 months bring.

People are going on about how this is the coolest year "since 2000" - as if that proved something other than their own stupidity. Trends don't go along straight lines - they fluctuate around a changing mean. If the world warms by 10 degrees, there will still be youngdans pointing out that some summer or other is the coolest for a decade, and still thinking it's something other than a slightly fancy way of saying "hey, I don't understand the science at all".

But then, we know people don't understand these things, because otherwise we wouldn't be in the mess we're in, eh? Both economies and science are so much more complex than most people can grasp, that they revert to dealing with it in the time honoured primitive way - ascribe it to a conscious agent. The modern version is a conspiracy, but the doors marked "creationism" and "god did it" are right next door.

Indeed. Just because graphs show a short to medium-term downward trajectory doesn't mean that the long-term trend is as well. As we well know from the stock exchange, just because the ISEQ takes a 6-month long rally towards 5000 from now doesn't change the underlying negative direction driving it that will take it back down to the mid 2000s. Look at this graph:



youngdan's argument could have and probably was made in the period after 1900 and 1940 to argue that the world was back on a trend of reducing global temperatures. These views were wrong since rises in greenhouse emissions and the cumulative feedback effect of previous emissions alongside natural variables like the intensity of the sun drove the long-term trend of temperatures up. Since emissions in general continue to rise;





there is nothing to suggest that this decade of cooling is anything but a temporary aberration which will be swiftly be corrected by the fundamental logic of rising greenhouse emissions. Temperatures are going to continue to increase, climate change is a reality and emissions must be sharply reduced.

On climate you are right I have not seen nothing yet. All I see is record cold temps.

Ireland was at least 15 degress colder 10000 years ago and you are worried about half a degree.

I will not hold my breath on the 10 degeee rise you are promising.

Give it a break A-T with your emissions.

What caused the last ice age to melt. Was it too many cars

youngdan wrote:

On climate you are right I have not seen nothing yet. All I see is record cold temps.

Ireland was at least 15 degress colder 10000 years ago and you are worried about half a degree.

I will not hold my breath on the 10 degeee rise you are promising.

Give it a break A-T with your emissions.

What caused the last ice age to melt. Was it too many cars

There are also perfectly natural cycles - unfortunately none of them fit the bill. On natural cycles, we ought to be heading back into a new ice age over the next couple of thousand years.

We are all set then.

I will wait for the 10 degree rise, when should it appear.

Destiny Soldier had an interesting observation. He said that he was once ridiculed when he spoke of a global government. Now everyone recognises it.

Others said that Lisbon was a once off but of course that was a lie as well.

N o shortage of lies now.

youngdan wrote:

On climate you are right I have not seen nothing yet. All I see is record cold temps.

Ireland was at least 15 degress colder 10000 years ago and you are worried about half a degree.

I will not hold my breath on the 10 degeee rise you are promising.

Give it a break A-T with your emissions.

What caused the last ice age to melt. Was it too many cars

The fact that you do not know what caused the last ice age underlines how unqualified you are to discuss this issue. The last ice age was brought on by the natural fluctuations in the climate of Earth. This was because of solar intensity, pitch of the Earth's axis, the Moon, Earth's magnetic field, the volcanic activity, frequency of comets, tectonic shifts and drifts etc. These factors, as scientists over the past few decades have found, cannot explain the sudden rise in temperatures in the world from the 19th century onwards. The conclusion which they have increasingly and now have virtually drawn is that the climate is changing and the active agent in that change is humanity. We are causing climate change, global warming is happening and we have to put in place means by which it can be addressed.

So it wasn't too many cars then.

You can worry about global warming but in the meantime I am dealing with global freezing here. When do you expect the 10 degrees to kick in.

Frightened Albanian wrote:

youngdan wrote:

Well due to the climate today resembling the Artic, school is cancelled. Luckily for me I have this video of the global warming scam to watch to pass the time

http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/blancostemrecht/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle_Documentary_Film.aspx

That is very nice for you youngdan, you are truly enlightened

Have you ever noticed how people who know what they are talking about use as source material published peer-reviewed studies, whereas those who don't rely on you tube and television programmes?

Dan appears like conspiracy theorists to belong to the latter category.

youngdan wrote:

So it wasn't too many cars then.

Obviously not, but this climactic crisis is about cars and so much more besides. It's only by dealing with cars by making them greenhouse emissions-neutral and other major changes that we can have any hope of easing this crisis.

Quote :

You can worry about global warming but in the meantime I am dealing with global freezing here. When do you expect the 10 degrees to kick in.

The temperature of the Earth is expected to increase by up to 5 degrees on average over the next few decades. This will result in Bangladesh flooded, the Netherlands inundated, Australia dryed out, the collapse of the Gulfstream, the destruction of island groups across the world, coastal erosion, the sharp reduction in the amount of arable land and a global famine is not an inconceivable possibility.

youngdan wrote:

So it wasn't too many cars then.

You can worry about global warming but in the meantime I am dealing with global freezing here. When do you expect the 10 degrees to kick in.

It might help if you managed to grasp the difference between climate and weather. Or even the most basic facts.

Papal Knight wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:

youngdan wrote:

Well due to the climate today resembling the Artic, school is cancelled. Luckily for me I have this video of the global warming scam to watch to pass the time

http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/blancostemrecht/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle_Documentary_Film.aspx

That is very nice for you youngdan, you are truly enlightened

Have you ever noticed how people who know what they are talking about use as source material published peer-reviewed studies, whereas those who don't rely on you tube and television programmes?

Dan appears like conspiracy theorists to belong to the latter category.

Ah, the minute someone can't tell the difference between weather and climate you know. It's like someone saying that there can't be a recession because they got a pay rise.