Priorities Party Launches Tesco Boycott

cactus flower wrote:

A report came out recently saying that all the supermarkets charge pretty much the same for everything.

That report. Do Lidl count as a supermarket?

Ah who cares. They sell bourbon creams for 31c!

905 wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

A report came out recently saying that all the supermarkets charge pretty much the same for everything.

That report. Do Lidl count as a supermarket?

Ah who cares. They sell bourbon creams for 31c!

Its a good question. Lidl is much more like a street market than a traditional supermarket.
I'll try and check it out.

Edo wrote:

905 wrote:

Edo wrote:

So Kate - how can producers regain the initative? - there is no point into trying to explain the morality of the situation to consumers.

Well that's where the trusty Irish Farmers Organisation come in. They see a problem like this in the market, Fine Gael came up with lots of them a few years ago (when they developed the rip-off idea, before Eddie Hobbs stole it). They organise the farmers and they develop a plan of action.

Oh wait no, I'm thinking of a proper farming lobby. The IFA will ignore the very real problems that Irish farmers face and will focus instead on what Mandy or the Brazilians are up to.

exactly - its much easier to turn around and blame others, the WTO, the brazilians, the EU, The supermarkets etc etc , instead of taking a hard look at themselves and the total lack of any plan, any common unity on the many issues that need to be faced, most of which are in their own proverbial backyard and in their own hands if they had the wit to look for them.

The IFA are a joke - a lobby for welfare assistance for an agricultural system that is totally wrong over 95% of their members.

What specifically, gentlemen? It's hard to agree with or challenge what you say without a single example of what farmers can do in their own back yards.

The IFA is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the country - a joke it certainly is not. I know a number of the most senior members and I can tell you they work incredibly hard. They have a very strong organisation at local level too.

But I would say that while there is definitely an eye to what the Brazilians and WTO are doing (and in light of your comments on small countries getting real about their place in a globalised society on other threads, I'm somewhat surprised at your perspective here, Edo. IFA has its finger on the pulse of the Big Picture and knows its place in the world) there are also huge strides made by individuals diversifying, forming producer groups...

Kate P wrote:

Edo wrote:

905 wrote:

Edo wrote:

So Kate - how can producers regain the initative? - there is no point into trying to explain the morality of the situation to consumers.

Well that's where the trusty Irish Farmers Organisation come in. They see a problem like this in the market, Fine Gael came up with lots of them a few years ago (when they developed the rip-off idea, before Eddie Hobbs stole it). They organise the farmers and they develop a plan of action.

Oh wait no, I'm thinking of a proper farming lobby. The IFA will ignore the very real problems that Irish farmers face and will focus instead on what Mandy or the Brazilians are up to.

exactly - its much easier to turn around and blame others, the WTO, the brazilians, the EU, The supermarkets etc etc , instead of taking a hard look at themselves and the total lack of any plan, any common unity on the many issues that need to be faced, most of which are in their own proverbial backyard and in their own hands if they had the wit to look for them.

The IFA are a joke - a lobby for welfare assistance for an agricultural system that is totally wrong over 95% of their members.

What specifically, gentlemen? It's hard to agree with or challenge what you say without a single example of what farmers can do in their own back yards.

The IFA is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the country - a joke it certainly is not. I know a number of the most senior members and I can tell you they work incredibly hard. They have a very strong organisation at local level too.

But I would say that while there is definitely an eye to what the Brazilians and WTO are doing (and in light of your comments on small countries getting real about their place in a globalised society on other threads, I'm somewhat surprised at your perspective here, Edo. IFA has its finger on the pulse of the Big Picture and knows its place in the world) there are also huge strides made by individuals diversifying, forming producer groups...

OK Kate - that IFA was a flippant remark - but I had just been listening to an IFA official on the radio giving out yards about this very topic and, and the reduction in liquid milk prices being paid at the farmgate once again the default mode seems to be state assistance for the tough times farmers are going thru at the moment and lots of giving out about the supermarkets and no real plan about going forward.

My issue with the IFA is over the vision - which for the last 30 years appears to be Ireland as a large scale producer of commodity produce and the growth of intensive monoculture agriculture to support this. IMO - this is nuts and totally ignores the situation of the country.

I dont deny that there are individuals willing to roll up their sleaves and take control of their own destinies - more power to them and as hard times tend to be mother of radical thinking - hopefully there will be far more of them in the future.

My own local butcher here in DSE is a perfect example - a smallholder from wicklow (about 50-60 acres) -producing lamb and beef at the mercy of the markets and retailers Himself and his brother decided to take matters into their own hands about 10 years ago and set up their own retail outlet - they took a look at the market, did their research, came to the conclusion that the ideal people to sell their produce to were people had money and gambled big on this hunch. They started with just the 2 of them in the shop - now having just finished a third extension to their premises - they employ 20 people in the premises in DSE and 10 more on the 3 farms they have acquired so far and have a thriving business in wholesale and retail - have a great reputation for their produce and have a thriving business in supplying upmarket restaurants and their retail store - there are queues out the door about 40 deep on Saturdays -and the stuff is not cheap - but they know their customers and willing to try new things and that way have built up a great business that is virtually recession proof as they cater to the higher end of the market and people who appreciate their food. they also control their supplychain totally and their marketing of this is superb.

Maybe that is setting the overall benchmark a bit high and not everybody can do this - but this is the way we have to start thinking here. Lets forget trying to feed the world on basic commodities and starting trying become the "BMW" brand in designer food and concentrate on the 50-100 million wealthy individuals on this planet who are willing to pay for a premium brand product. I know that the Gov and Farming organisations are always banging on about us producing premium quality stuff anyway - but talk is cheap - its time for the farmers to get together, restart the co-op movement - Glanbia and Kerry dont mind if their raw materials are sourced from Tipperary or Timbucktoo as long as the price is right - they are out of the equation now - new organisations are needed that are totally controlled by the farming community and work for the good of the farming community and whose logistics are totally controlled and operated by organisations whose first loyalty is to the farming community, not a shareholder in Los Angeles.

905 wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

A report came out recently saying that all the supermarkets charge pretty much the same for everything.

That report. Do Lidl count as a supermarket?

Ah who cares. They sell bourbon creams for 31c!

There are three strands within the large retail sector. M&S, Dunnes Stores, Tesco, Superquinn are referred to as supermarkets.

Centra, Spar, DayBreak, SuperValu, Londis etc are referred to as multiples.

Then Lidl and Aldi are known as discounters.

Quote :

OK Kate - that IFA was a flippant remark - but I had just been listening to an IFA official on the radio giving out yards about this very topic and, and the reduction in liquid milk prices being paid at the farmgate once again the default mode seems to be state assistance for the tough times farmers are going thru at the moment and lots of giving out about the supermarkets and no real plan about going forward.

I don't know what discussion you're talking about, but I think we all need to be aware that in a food crisis situation, farmers' problems are our problems. History has shown (as does your example below) that when something isn't viable, people stop doing it.

Quote :

My issue with the IFA is over the vision - which for the last 30 years appears to be Ireland as a large scale producer of commodity produce and the growth of intensive monoculture agriculture to support this. IMO - this is nuts and totally ignores the situation of the country.

Monoculture agriculture? Are we living in the same country?

The situation of the country is that we have a tremendous resource - in grass, and that means that production of milk, lamb and beef are viable here. Would you prefer that this resource wasn't exploited with a view to creating a stable export industry? We export 80% of our beef.

If you'd clarify, what you mean, I'd appreciate that.

Quote :

I dont deny that there are individuals willing to roll up their sleaves and take control of their own destinies - more power to them and as hard times tend to be mother of radical thinking - hopefully there will be far more of them in the future.

Is this another flippant remark based on a rather outdated notion that farmers lie back for the cheque in the post? Payments to farmers are decoupled now and won't last much longer in any case. We don't have a lot of idle farmland in this country anyway. And there's no setaside this year either.

Quote :

My own local butcher here in DSE is a perfect example - a smallholder from wicklow (about 50-60 acres) -producing lamb and beef at the mercy of the markets and retailers Himself and his brother decided to take matters into their own hands about 10 years ago and set up their own retail outlet - they took a look at the market, did their research, came to the conclusion that the ideal people to sell their produce to were people had money and gambled big on this hunch. They started with just the 2 of them in the shop - now having just finished a third extension to their premises - they employ 20 people in the premises in DSE and 10 more on the 3 farms they have acquired so far and have a thriving business in wholesale and retail - have a great reputation for their produce and have a thriving business in supplying upmarket restaurants and their retail store - there are queues out the door about 40 deep on Saturdays -and the stuff is not cheap - but they know their customers and willing to try new things and that way have built up a great business that is virtually recession proof as they cater to the higher end of the market and people who appreciate their food. they also control their supplychain totally and their marketing of this is superb.

Maybe that is setting the overall benchmark a bit high and not everybody can do this - but this is the way we have to start thinking here.

I hate to break this news to you, but there are producers like this all over the country, or those who have diversified in all kinds of ways. But what you seem to forget is that in a country with 4m people, there are a limited number of niche markets.

Quote :

Lets forget trying to feed the world on basic commodities and starting trying become the "BMW" brand in designer food and concentrate on the 50-100 million wealthy individuals on this planet who are willing to pay for a premium brand product. I know that the Gov and Farming organisations are always banging on about us producing premium quality stuff anyway - but talk is cheap - its time for the farmers to get together, restart the co-op movement - Glanbia and Kerry dont mind if their raw materials are sourced from Tipperary or Timbucktoo as long as the price is right - they are out of the equation now - new organisations are needed that are totally controlled by the farming community and work for the good of the farming community and whose logistics are totally controlled and operated by organisations whose first loyalty is to the farming community, not a shareholder in Los Angeles.

I banged this drum myself for a long time but as time goes on, I see that it's not very realistic. The lamb issue is a particular problem (and you'll find that farmers in upland areas are working hard to get their product special designation - like Champagne...) because it's a premium and perishable product. Why don't farmers set up their own co-op and factory to buy lambs at a decent price? I used to ask this all the time because the factories religiously sink the price when the best quality lamb has to be sold from the field.

I agree with you about Glanbia and others having limited loyalty to Irish producers but farmers are farmers, if they were entrepreneurs or businessmen they'd be wearing suits and shiny shoes, not mucky boilersuits and rubber boots. It's not that easy - and it's not that easy to develop a strong market force as a co-op. The world has changed.

Anyway I have to work, I'll come back to this later.

Quote :

I agree with you about Glanbia and others having limited loyalty to Irish producers but farmers are farmers, if they were entrepreneurs or businessmen they'd be wearing suits and shiny shoes, not mucky boilersuits and rubber boots. It's not that easy - and it's not that easy to develop a strong market force as a co-op. The world has changed.

In what way, I wonder? Is it a legal change, a market change, a change in attitude? In certain senses, after all, every company is a co-operative organisation - are people too individually focussed on the personally possible to be willing to accept the communally achievable?

Its not that long since the Irish co-ops effectively self-privatised. Personally I though it ill advised at the time and still do.