Catholic Funeral

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

riadach wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Well, you see we're in competition with the atheists and the Muslims now. We have to build mindshare, we have to build consumer retention rates. Ergo, we have to convert people to our cause now and expand our customer base. It's mostly a defensive reaction in changed market circumstances.

We used to be a monopoly. No longer, sigh.

Will they be attracting the average homosexual male?

This may work. http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2007/07/art-space-news-controversial-sculpture.html

Pfffhhh!!! Well! Ah, there are opportunities presented to the Catholic Church by pursuing the homosexual market. Homosexuals have a higher disposable income and expenditure patterns than the national average. The downside is that there are poor secondary growth possibilities from homosexuals. No children means no christenings, confessions, communions and confirmations. We have to sddress that.

Well they could try to liberalise the marriage/adoption market, by which they could facilitate future growth within that sector.

riadach wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

riadach wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Well, you see we're in competition with the atheists and the Muslims now. We have to build mindshare, we have to build consumer retention rates. Ergo, we have to convert people to our cause now and expand our customer base. It's mostly a defensive reaction in changed market circumstances.

We used to be a monopoly. No longer, sigh.

Will they be attracting the average homosexual male?

This may work. http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2007/07/art-space-news-controversial-sculpture.html

Pfffhhh!!! Well! Ah, there are opportunities presented to the Catholic Church by pursuing the homosexual market. Homosexuals have a higher disposable income and expenditure patterns than the national average. The downside is that there are poor secondary growth possibilities from homosexuals. No children means no christenings, confessions, communions and confirmations. We have to sddress that.

Well they could try to liberalise the marriage/adoption market, by which they could facilitate future growth within that sector.

That's a clear means by which we can increase the yield on our investments in the gay market. We'd have to table a motion before the AGM and get it passed in order for us to receive clearance for that. However, a blocking minority of shareholders is in opposition to that move. We'll just have to concentrate on primary expansion in the short to long term. Going forward, it's clearly not a sustainable strategy.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

That's a clear means by which we can increase the yield on our investments in the gay market. We'd have to table a motion before the AGM and get it passed in order for us to receive clearance for that. However, a blocking minority of shareholders is in opposition to that move. We'll just have to concentrate on primary expansion in the short to long term. Going forward, it's clearly not a sustainable strategy.

However, after the current ceo has finished his term, there is a chance that the election of the next ceo make change the overall composition of the shareholders and boardmembers. In such an instance, the blocking minority may no longer exist, therefore one can resurrect this proposal.

riadach wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

That's a clear means by which we can increase the yield on our investments in the gay market. We'd have to table a motion before the AGM and get it passed in order for us to receive clearance for that. However, a blocking minority of shareholders is in opposition to that move. We'll just have to concentrate on primary expansion in the short to long term. Going forward, it's clearly not a sustainable strategy.

However, after the current ceo has finished his term, there is a chance that the election of the next ceo make change the overall composition of the shareholders and boardmembers. In such an instance, the blocking minority may no longer exist, therefore one can resurrect this proposal.

Indeed, resurrection is what the whole enterprise is about! Myself and some favourable institutional investors are quietly building ownership of the ordinary and preference shares in the company to the extent that we will have the controlling stake come the next elections to the board. We've kept it below disclosure levels so as not to arouse suspicion and counterparty action.

By the time of the next election of the chief executive(2011-12 is our estimation) we will have sufficient control to pass the motion. There's fantastic growth potential in the gay market alone. We're considering bringing Graham Norton in as Strategic Consultant.

Quote :

2011-12 is our estimation

Predicting the holy father's death? Don't make me take out the bell the book and the candle again.

riadach wrote:

Quote :

2011-12 is our estimation

Predicting the holy father's death? Don't make me take out the bell the book and the candle again.

We said estimation. We must be prepared to put in place our corporate strategy. NEway, feck this business malarkey, I'm off to watch The Apprentice.

cactus flower wrote:

Catholic funerals were for a while very personal. I went to one about 7 years ago of a young man (very young) who had worked for me. His girl friends sang a Radiohead song that he had loved, it was a very eery keening sound, and another family member sang a religious song he had liked.

There were some things put on his coffin, I think his GAA boots and a piece of work he had done. The priest spoke about how he couldn't really see a bright side to it.

About two years later I heard on the news that priests had been instructed to stop all this and return to standard liturgy.

I remember the priest on the pulpit reading out the letter from the bishop! You have to remember that actions such as this merely highlight the degree to which these personal touches have become standard practice. It's more of an attempt to stem the tide rather than a diktat from above.

I waited outside as it happened... just followed the crowd!

It was a good service, despite the microphone malfunction which took a few minutes to solve. You guys don't sing with the same gusto as we do but aside from that! I also think it would be nice if the liturgy was available on paper for visitors or people who might not be Catholic. I don't know whether it was just this particular church or if it is in general that you are assumed to know it all off by heart?

Communion was an open invitation, so I took. Communion is also an open invitation in our Church.

johnfás wrote:

I waited outside as it happened... just followed the crowd!

Told you so!

johnfás wrote:

It was a good service, despite the microphone malfunction which took a few minutes to solve. You guys don't sing with the same gusto as we do but aside from that! I also think it would be nice if the liturgy was available on paper for visitors or people who might not be Catholic. I don't know whether it was just this particular church or if it is in general that you are assumed to know it all off by heart?

They'd tend to have them at scheduled masses, but they wouldn't go to the expense of printing them for masses where they're likely to only get 20 people attending (I mean, if there wasn't a funeral today, there'd still have been a mass with the same readings).

johnfás wrote:

Communion was an open invitation, so I took. Communion is also an open invitation in our Church.

I wouldn't have. I've been in churches before where there's a sign up saying 'feel free to attend our mass, to observe the church and the practices, but Communion is something sacred to us, so please don't belittle it by taking it if you don't believe' (or something to that effect).

Then again, I suppose it's not a huge difference (trans- versus consubstantiation).

Ahem, transubstantiation versus real presence :-)

riadach wrote:

Ahem, transubstantiation versus real presence :-)

Ah yea. We followed the lead of the priest which (he knowing most people there were Protestant) was that all people with faith in Christ were welcome to receive. Had that not been the invitation I would not have.

johnfás wrote:

riadach wrote:

Ahem, transubstantiation versus real presence :-)

Ah yea. We followed the lead of the priest which (he knowing most people there were Protestant) was that all people with faith in Christ were welcome to receive. Had that not been the invitation I would not have.

To be honest, I don't think it should really offend. From a catholic perspective, just because an individual doesn't believe they are taking the body of christ, does not mean they're not. (Not to get into the whole substance/accidents argument).

I would agree with Riadach. I would always welcome a Catholic person to take communion in my Church even if their belief on the elements of communion are not precisely the same. We share a faith in Christ which transcends denominational barriers - in my opinion. I always find it likely that I disagree with people of my own denomination on as many things as I disagree with those who are from another denomination, it is just the aspects of the differences which lead me to belong to my Church and not another.

If nobody participated with anyone else on the basis of their interpretation of the same texts it is likely that we would be even more fractured that we already are. Anyway that is just my opinion on things....

Fair enough. I hadn't realised that the priest invited people to partake. I was just basing it on my experience in one particular church (which is the only place I'd come across a reference to it).

TheBear wrote:

Then again, I suppose it's not a huge difference (trans- versus consubstantiation).

There is. The former is true, the latter is false.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

TheBear wrote:

Then again, I suppose it's not a huge difference (trans- versus consubstantiation).

There is. The former is true, the latter is false.

Very few protestant denominations believe in consubstantiation. It was just a neat dichotomy for junior cert history.

riadach wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

TheBear wrote:

Then again, I suppose it's not a huge difference (trans- versus consubstantiation).

There is. The former is true, the latter is false.

Very few protestant denominations believe in consubstantiation. It was just a neat dichotomy for junior cert history.

Very good, because it is the body and blood of our Lord, the Holy Spirit descends on the altar and through divine mystery makes it so. It's an awesome occassion really.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

riadach wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

TheBear wrote:

Then again, I suppose it's not a huge difference (trans- versus consubstantiation).

There is. The former is true, the latter is false.

Very few protestant denominations believe in consubstantiation. It was just a neat dichotomy for junior cert history.

Very good, because it is the body and blood of our Lord, the Holy Spirit descends on the altar and through divine mystery makes it so. It's an awesome occassion really.

It is hard for an atheist to relate to this discussion.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

riadach wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

TheBear wrote:

Then again, I suppose it's not a huge difference (trans- versus consubstantiation).

There is. The former is true, the latter is false.

Very few protestant denominations believe in consubstantiation. It was just a neat dichotomy for junior cert history.

Very good, because it is the body and blood of our Lord, the Holy Spirit descends on the altar and through divine mystery makes it so. It's an awesome occassion really.

Not sure the rest believe in that though. Perhaps our resident leftfooter could cast some light on the issue?

cactus flower wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

riadach wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

TheBear wrote:

Then again, I suppose it's not a huge difference (trans- versus consubstantiation).

There is. The former is true, the latter is false.

Very few protestant denominations believe in consubstantiation. It was just a neat dichotomy for junior cert history.

Very good, because it is the body and blood of our Lord, the Holy Spirit descends on the altar and through divine mystery makes it so. It's an awesome occassion really.

It is hard for an atheist to relate to this discussion.

It's like string theory. Many believe in it, many do not, neither can prove their point of view.

cactus flower wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

riadach wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

TheBear wrote:

Then again, I suppose it's not a huge difference (trans- versus consubstantiation).

There is. The former is true, the latter is false.

Very few protestant denominations believe in consubstantiation. It was just a neat dichotomy for junior cert history.

Very good, because it is the body and blood of our Lord, the Holy Spirit descends on the altar and through divine mystery makes it so. It's an awesome occassion really.

It is hard for an atheist to relate to this discussion.

Well, you can try. It reminds us of the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for our sins and reminds us to keep close to the founding vision of Christianity and to attempt to make known the Kingdom of God in what we do.

Well its obviously working for you, Ard Taoiseach.

cactus flower wrote:

Well its obviously working for you, Ard Taoiseach.

Thanks, cactus flower!

Well, I consider myself a trainee Christian. I'm doing my apprenticeship in this world before I'm assessed in Heaven for a full-time position. If I make the grade, I'll be in clover at the side of the Almighty. If I've failed, then I deserve my punishment in Hell.

I'm very dubious about calling myself an actual Christian since I believe that that is the ultimate standard to which we must all strive and rarely achieve. The challenge presented to us by Jesus Christ is tough and some-times, for some people, insurmountable. Our life's work should to be to meet that challenge and do as Jesus would do.

Hello Johnfás - sorry to hear about your grandfather.

Quote :

Catholic funerals were for a while very personal. I went to one about 7 years ago of a young man (very young) who had worked for me. His girl friends sang a Radiohead song that he had loved, it was a very eery keening sound, and another family member sang a religious song he had liked.

There were some things put on his coffin, I think his GAA boots and a piece of work he had done. The priest spoke about how he couldn't really see a bright side to it.

About two years later I heard on the news that priests had been instructed to stop all this and return to standard liturgy.

Cactus this still goes on - especially for young people. I've been at quite a lot of funerals in the past couple of years (two of students I taught) and both had these features. It's very common.

johnfás wrote

Quote :

We're quite an inbred bunch really. All my grandparents would be Protestants, only one of my parent's siblings married a Catholic and now he would attend a Protestant Church. The cousins, now thats an entirely different kettle of fish, most of the cousins would be going out with Catholic boys and girls. Sign of generational differences I guess. I'm the only of my cousins who would have a Protestant girlfriend/boyfriend.

My husband is Presbyterian. My mother warned me when we were going out not to convert because 'the new lot won't welcome you and you're own won't want you back.' I thought that was rather cynical but she was probably right and typically pragmatic.

We have agreed - at this point and assuming we're still married to each other when the first one dies, that that person will be buried in the church of his or her faith and the other will follow. I know it's morbid but...

We had a great ecumenical wedding - lots of singing (awful hymns, johnfás, awful - and all from his side) two sermons and no communion. It took place in a Catholic Church and all went well. I did have to give an undertaking that I'd do my best to ensure that any children would be brought up Catholic but the priest was very practical about it. It hasn't arisen anyway. I wouldn't mind what faith once they're decent Christians and can decide themselves when they're older. Meanwhile we continue to deprive the church of christenings, communions and confirmations.

When my grandaunt married a Protestant, her brother never spoke to her again and she was ostracised from the pulpit. I feel privileged to lve in a more tolerant society.

cactus flower wrote:

About two years later I heard on the news that priests had been instructed to stop all this and return to standard liturgy.

I actually think this is a good idea. I don't practice religion very much but funerals have become a bit like a Neil Diamond concert or something. I was at one in Limerick last year where they had some woman singing "Wind Beneath My Wings". I thought she was going to start break dancing on the altar. Mind you it was a bizarre experience anyway.