I was at the Lisbon Treaty FF gathering at Cork International Airport Hotel last night.

First thing. The Hotel is well worth a visit to see. It's really snazzy.

Speeches from Micheal Martin (Priest ) Brian Cowan (Bishop) and Brian Crowley (the Missionary).

It was a full house with FF Cumman from all over Cork. Pressing of flesh aplenty, suits and makeup in abundance.

It was the initiation for Brian to introduce himself to the Cork fold. However, it was Brian Crowley MEP who stole the limelight. Brian Cowan and Micheál stuck to generalities on the EU project and very much to the "good EU" script. Listening in the backround the tone sounded like a trip to church. The words came across like a sermon that was full of the predictable cliches of religious faith rather than of religious knowledge. Trust us, the EU is good for Ireland therefore of course, Lisbon is good.

I, also think being in the EU has been good for Ireland, but am undecided on the Treaty.

It looks like the top brass in FF are going to avoid the nitty gritty of the treaty and stick to the generalities.

Brian Crowley spoke from the heart and the positive energy he engendered lifted the spirits of the faithful to get out to promote the Yes campaign.

The craic was good and Brian Cowan fired up from the well wishers polished off the odd drink (more like 5 or 7 rather than 1 or 3) before hitting the road for Offaly at 12.45.

I couldn't keep up with his driver on the N25 heading Northbound. I decided to take my foot off the gas doing 80mph. Those mercs aren't black for nothing.

Destinys Soldier wrote:

I was at the Lisbon Treaty FF gathering at Cork International Airport Hotel last night.

First thing. The Hotel is well worth a visit to see. It's really snazzy.

Speeches from Micheal Martin (Priest ) Brian Cowan (Bishop) and Brian Crowley (the Missionary).

It was a full house with FF Cumman from all over Cork. Pressing of flesh aplenty, suits and makeup in abundance.

It was the initiation for Brian to introduce himself to the Cork fold. However, it was Brian Crowley MEP who stole the limelight. Brian Cowan and Micheál stuck to generalities on the EU project and very much to the "good EU" script. Listening in the backround the tone sounded like a trip to church. The words came across like a sermon that was full of the predictable cliches of religious faith rather than of religious knowledge. Trust us, the EU is good for Ireland therefore of course, Lisbon is good.

I, also think being in the EU has been good for Ireland, but am undecided on the Treaty.

It looks like the top brass in FF are going to avoid the nitty gritty of the treaty and stick to the generalities.

Brian Crowley spoke from the heart and the positive energy he engendered lifted the spirits of the faithful to get out to promote the Yes campaign.

The craic was good and Brian Cowan fired up from the well wishers polished off the odd drink (more like 5 or 7 rather than 1 or 3) before hitting the road for Offaly at 12.45.

I couldn't keep up with his driver on the N25 heading Northbound. I decided to take my foot off the gas doing 80mph. Those mercs aren't black for nothing.

Plus ca change, Destiny's Soldier. One thing I would guess is that the EU is not going to pay for Cork Airport.
They should have built the greyhound stadium at the airport as a dual purpose structure ( wasn't that €15 million? Dail Report). Nothing like seeing our money well spent. Still, I am glad you had a good night out, and I guess that the Taoiseach in waiting made it home safe, or we would have heard about it by now.

I felt it was rubbing the noses of the faithful into the €113m vacuum. Was it Hubris?

The Greyhound Stadium near the planes might frighten off the hounds.

Another part of me felt like kicking someone on the subject. But I kept myself all polite and nice.

Your flight is coming in to land........

FF have been suspiciously quiet on the topic of Lisbon. Willy O'Dea is performing tonight in the Clarion in Limerick. I'd pay to go, but can't.

However, kudos to Brian Crowley who did an excellent job - in his sum up - at the Forum meeting in Cork a couple of weeks ago. He is by far the ... he's the only FF speaker I've heard who really gives a damn. And he's the best of the MEPs on the subject. If you hear of him speaking again DS, drop me a pm. I'd be glad to hear him.

Kate P wrote:

FF have been suspiciously quiet on the topic of Lisbon. Willy O'Dea is performing tonight in the Clarion in Limerick. I'd pay to go, but can't.

However, kudos to Brian Crowley who did an excellent job - in his sum up - at the Forum meeting in Cork a couple of weeks ago. He is by far the ... he's the only FF speaker I've heard who really gives a damn. And he's the best of the MEPs on the subject. If you hear of him speaking again DS, drop me a pm. I'd be glad to hear him.

Sure will make contact.

FF will stay quiet on the treaty because none are sufficiently versed on the technical make up of the treaty. .. would be my guess.

You know how scary that sounds, DS? The main party in government not sufficiently versed on the technical make up of the treaty?

Have you had meetings across the country re Lisbon or has was Friday's meeting the first?

Are you versed in it?

Kate P wrote:

You know how scary that sounds, DS? The main party in government not sufficiently versed on the technical make up of the treaty?

Have you had meetings across the country re Lisbon or has was Friday's meeting the first?

Are you versed in it?

Im not remotely versed. And with 500 pages of gobbledegook you can appreciate why a politician would avoid a public debate. You could be found out of your depth very quickly when faced with a No person who has digested it and can analyse it from a legal perspective.

TDs are good at shielding themselves from unecessary stress.
Life is too good for them probably... etc etc.

Thinking would also be taxing on the brain and might also take one away from more important things such as clinics and funerals. You know yourself.

The public will do what their told anyway.
Indifference or laziness tops the poll again.

Destinys Soldier wrote:

Kate P wrote:

You know how scary that sounds, DS? The main party in government not sufficiently versed on the technical make up of the treaty?

Have you had meetings across the country re Lisbon or has was Friday's meeting the first?

Are you versed in it?

Im not remotely versed. And with 500 pages of gobbledegook you can appreciate why a politician would avoid a public debate. You could be found out of your depth very quickly when faced with a No person who has digested it and can analyse it from a legal perspective.

TDs are good at shielding themselves from unecessary stress.
Life is too good for them probably... etc etc.

Thinking would also be taxing on the brain and might also take one away from more important things such as clinics and funerals. You know yourself.

The public will do what their told anyway.
Indifference or laziness tops the poll again.

Loved your internal perspective on the workings of the minds of the Elected, but I am getting a distinct sniff of a shift towards a No vote.

cactus flower wrote:

Destinys Soldier wrote:

Kate P wrote:

You know how scary that sounds, DS? The main party in government not sufficiently versed on the technical make up of the treaty?

Have you had meetings across the country re Lisbon or has was Friday's meeting the first?

Are you versed in it?

Im not remotely versed. And with 500 pages of gobbledegook you can appreciate why a politician would avoid a public debate. You could be found out of your depth very quickly when faced with a No person who has digested it and can analyse it from a legal perspective.

TDs are good at shielding themselves from unecessary stress.
Life is too good for them probably... etc etc.

Thinking would also be taxing on the brain and might also take one away from more important things such as clinics and funerals. You know yourself.

The public will do what their told anyway.
Indifference or laziness tops the poll again.

Loved your internal perspective on the workings of the minds of the Elected, but I am getting a distinct sniff of a shift towards a No vote.

Friday was the 1st Libon gathering from an FF perspective and the 1st big gathering of FF heads in years. Nobody from the floor asked any technical questions. 3 questions were asked but they were more rhetorical in nature.

The was a fair whiff of builder money about the place too. These guys spent plenty of time blowing sunshine up the TDs backsides. Sometimes I wonder, all that brown nosing. How many really cared for the treaty? They were there to sound out for any bad implications for them in the treaty. Back to auctioneering and councilling in the morning.

As I said to the girl who asked me was I available to canvass for a yes: Im FF with a conscience. I may be voting No.

Destinys Soldier wrote:

Kate P wrote:

You know how scary that sounds, DS? The main party in government not sufficiently versed on the technical make up of the treaty?

Have you had meetings across the country re Lisbon or has was Friday's meeting the first?

Are you versed in it?

Im not remotely versed. And with 500 pages of gobbledegook you can appreciate why a politician would avoid a public debate. You could be found out of your depth very quickly when faced with a No person who has digested it and can analyse it from a legal perspective.

Well, one No person only needs to get well-versed on the one clause or sub-clause they object to, whereas the poor old Yes speaker has to be able to argue on every single one of the clauses in order to look competent - and there's one for every No voter who gets a go. Hardly an even playing field!

The burden of proof is habitually the responsibility of the proposition to carry, ibis.

Kate P wrote:

The burden of proof is habitually the responsibility of the proposition to carry, ibis.

I don't deny it! I'm just pointing out that it's possible for everyone in the audience to have spent a couple of months researching one particular article each, with the result that it is impossible for one person on the stand to match them all in the same depth.