IL&P Gave Anglo Irish a Year End Digout

Breaking News from RTE

Quote :

Government appointed directors in Anglo Irish Bank are investigating
a deposit of billions of euro by Irish Life & Permanent in Anglo
Irish bank before the end of its financial year.
It is understood the issue of how the deposit affected accounts at
Anglo Irish is also being investigated by the financial regulator.

I'm appalled by this.
It would now seem that both Irish Nationwide and PTSB were helping Anglo tweak the books.
Are our banks run by some Mafia cabal?

eoinmn wrote:

Breaking News from RTE

Quote :

Government appointed directors in Anglo Irish Bank are investigating
a deposit of billions of euro by Irish Life & Permanent in Anglo
Irish bank before the end of its financial year.
It is understood the issue of how the deposit affected accounts at
Anglo Irish is also being investigated by the financial regulator.

I'm appalled by this.
It would now seem that both Irish Nationwide and PTSB were helping Anglo tweak the books.
Are our banks run by some Mafia cabal?

Yes.

When we guaranteed the deposits of all the banks, including Anglo, we had no knowledge of this kind shitehawking that was going on.
And now "Seanie" is over in the Algarve, laughing at us.

eoinmn wrote:

When we guaranteed the deposits of all the banks, including Anglo, we had no knowledge of this kind shitehawking that was going on.
And now "Seanie" is over in the Algarve, laughing at us.

When Bertie was writing the blank cheques, he thought he was a big player. Charvet shirts pwfwaah. Cowen and Lenihan, apparently on the spur of the moment, signed us up for an incalculable and unknown liability.

Of course the two Brians have questions to answer. But we can't have expected them to know the truth of what was going on in Anglo.
That the bank tried to hoodwink the public, their shareholders, the state..
appalling!

If we don't pay top dollar we can't get the best people.

They were certainly creative people, coc.
I don't know whether to or

I think. Don't ya feel a right eejit sometimes? Dealing with banks and paying the interest rather getting digouts; paying the mortgage(s), keeping an eagle eye on the expenses and under- rather than over-claiming. A right eejit I am. Ah well, they say virtue is its own reward........

What do we know here, as yet? nothing much as far as I can see.
Let's wait until we have some idea of what might have been going on before getting too excited. I'd be very surprised if Irish life & permanent were involved in anything strange.

Does anyone get the image ...

Irish Life Permanently Pensionable has 20 billion in deposits when Auditors #3, #4, #27, #46 come towards year end and count the cash.

The Auditors then look forward to counting Quanglo's money the next day and while they're asleep in the hotel, Irish Life, Permanent and Pensionable's people slip over to Shane Fitzpeter's with a skipful of money and deposit the 20 billion for the Auditors to count ....

Then it's Bank Our Iron's turn to get the skipload and so on ....

This has moved on. If I am understanding correctly, there was a run on Anglo Irish, it was close to default and Government met to put through an emergency Nationalisation of Anglo Irish on the night of September 28th. This did not happen - instead a 4 billion loan was put in to Anglo Irish by ILP and the Bank Guarantee was put through the next day for all Irish banks. This allowed Anglo Irish to avoid nationalisation.

An economist on VB's programme said that the ILP payment could not be done over night - it would have taken days to put in place.

Tis like when the farmers, in mountainous places I used to live, used to go around swapping a dead calf after it died to avail of grants.

Why would an economist necessarily know about such things? Unless he has worked in banks at a senior level. It would probably take a consumer a long time to move that sort of money but banks can do things fairly quickly I'd say.

johnfás wrote:

Why would an economist necessarily know about such things? Unless he has worked in banks at a senior level. It would probably take a consumer a long time to move that sort of money but banks can do things fairly quickly I'd say.

I think he was someone, with respect, who would be more familiar with this than you are johnfás. The main issue here is why did the Government decide not to Nationalise Anglo Irish, and instead commit us to the disastrous Bank Guarantee, and was the ILP loan part of a package to get Anglo Irish off the nationalisation hook? Or is there another explanation?

I've seen small solicitor's firms move 20 million in an hour, cactus. I've worked in large accountancy firms where over 50 million has been moved in an afternoon. This is when you are talking about a client's money deposited in a bank, rather than the bank moving its own deposits within its own system. You might be surprised with what can be done when time is of the essence. I don't doubt the man, though I would be interested as to who it was, I merely wonder whether an economist necessarily knows about the mechanisms within an institution for moving money.

johnfás wrote:

I've seen small solicitor's firms move 20 million in an hour, cactus. I've worked in large accountancy firms where over 50 million has been moved in an afternoon. This is when you are talking about a client's money deposited in a bank, rather than the bank moving its own deposits within its own system. You might be surprised with what can be done when time is of the essence. I don't doubt the man, though I would be interested as to who it was, I merely wonder whether an economist necessarily knows about the mechanisms within an institution for moving money.

This was not 50 million being moved from one account to another, it was 7 billion being raised and then moved on loan from one bank to another - the latter bank being at the time subject to a run on funds.

Sadly, I have no idea who it was, but I had every impression he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Why is anyone so surprised by this? This creativity happens when you employ men of such high calibre!


Now what I would like to know is, are the politicians truely and utterly incompetent and clueless or are they facilitators?

I wonder why IL&P decided to lend 4 billion to a bank that was in danger of collapse? This sort of largess is not normally associated with financial prudence. But then what is issuing a guarantee?

What I hear does not ring true with me, I think there is more to this. Bailing out people like this is such a good idea.

This shit goes on and on and on

From the International Financial Media

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/02/11/ap6041187.html

I finished moving all my pitiful savings from Irish banks last night , even from the Credit union (ok left a nominal amount there) - I have absolutely no faith in the Irish Banking System left or the ability of government to manage it ,or the ability of the Irish people to see beyond the end of their self interested noses -so if you cant beat them -join them - Im worried -seriously worried

We are killing ourselves by a thousand cuts here - every message sent out from the disgraceful banking systems - the solution to which depends on what day it is, to industrial unrest over very modest cutbacks considering the squllions of shit we are in , says "This country is in total denial about its problems and the future it is facing"

Time to fess up folks - time for normal hostilities to be postponed until we get our shit together - then the usual FF/FG bunfight can be begin again and the usual right is right but left is better nonsense can begin again without doing too much damage to the country.

Gawd this is depressing - we need a general election right now - for the sanity of the country - there is too much building up.

How easy is it to open a foreign bank account with an Irish address? Does Rabo count as a foreign bank?

floatingingalway wrote:

How easy is it to open a foreign bank account with an Irish address? Does Rabo count as a foreign bank?

Yep - guaranteed by the Dutch Government and people - who learned the lesson of bubbles a long time ago - we have the tulips now

Squire wrote:

Why is anyone so surprised by this? This creativity happens when you employ men of such high calibre!


Now what I would like to know is, are the politicians truely and utterly incompetent and clueless or are they facilitators?

I wonder why IL&P decided to lend 4 billion to a bank that was in danger of collapse. This sort of largess is not normally associated with financial prudence. But then what is issuing a guarantee.

What I hear does not ring true with me, I think there is more to this. Bailing out people like this is such a good idea.

Perhaps they would be more likely to do it if they knew a Bank Guarantee was going to go in place.

Edo wrote:

This shit goes on and on and on

From the International Financial Media

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/02/11/ap6041187.html

I finished moving all my pitiful savings from Irish banks last night , even from the Credit union (ok left a nominal amount there) - I have absolutely no faith in the Irish Banking System left or the ability of government to manage it ,or the ability of the Irish people to see beyond the end of their self interested noses -so if you cant beat them -join them - Im worried -seriously worried

We are killing ourselves by a thousand cuts here - every message sent out from the disgraceful banking systems - the solution to which depends on what day it is, to industrial unrest over very modest cutbacks considering the squllions of shit we are in , says "This country is in total denial about its problems and the future it is facing"

Time to fess up folks - time for normal hostilities to be postponed until we get our shit together - then the usual FF/FG bunfight can be begin again and the usual right is right but left is better nonsense can begin again without doing too much damage to the country.

Gawd this is depressing - we need a general election right now - for the sanity of the country - there is too much building up.

Quote :

The deal, which requires shareholder approval from both banks' shareholders, will give the government a 25 percent stake in both banks and require both to pay fixed 8 percent dividends annually into the state's pension reserve fund.

He said the government did not want to go beyond the 25 percent threshold because it would raise doubts in international analysts' minds as to whether the banks were on an inevitable road to nationalization.

"We have avoided the danger of nationalizing either institution, because it would have led to serious difficulty in international perceptions about the Irish banking sector," he said.

I gather there will be a useless public presence of one in four Board members.

It appears to me that Lenihan in his dealings with the banks has done his utmost to safeguard the position of the bankers at the expense of the public and the State as a whole. All this nauseatingly dressed up as acting in the national interest.

cactus flower wrote:

Perhaps they would be more likely to do it if they knew a Bank Guarantee was going to go in place.

INDEED! But also you have to think why bother getting involved in something that could turn messy? There is more to this.

Squire wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Perhaps they would be more likely to do it if they knew a Bank Guarantee was going to go in place.

INDEED! But also you have to think why bother getting involved in something that could turn messy? There is more to this.

I suppose one would have to ask what ILP was getting out of this, or what they stood to lose?