Libertas a pan European Project : Read OP Intro Carefully - Mod

cookiemonster wrote:

johnfás wrote:

A politician should know better than thinking he'll get any sort of positive response from the media or commentators when he launches a party without a membership, a policy or a candidate.

There is plenty of positive responses. And as I have said, candidates and policy will be announced this month. Before the elections too, which is nice.

May I presume CM that Libertas' party manifesto will be made public at this time??

who is your fundraiser cookie and how is he paid? does he get a % of the take?

Frightened Albanian wrote:

who is your fundraiser cookie and how is he paid? does he get a % of the take?

I assume you are asking about Joe Trippi, Fellow at the Institute of Politics at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, author of The Revolution Will Not Be Televised: Democracy, the Internet, and the Overthrow of Everything, fellow at The New Democratic Network's "the New Politics Institute" think tank and has been involved or been leader of numerous political campaigns for leading Democrats from Edward Kennedy, Walter Mondale, Gary Hart, Dick Gephardt, John Edwards and was campaign manager for Howard Dean presidental campaign.

I take it that's a "Yes".

cactus flower wrote:

I take it that's a "Yes".

Indeed it is a yes, yes to the EU. But no to Lisbon!

cookiemonster wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

I take it that's a "Yes".

Indeed it is a yes, yes to the EU. But no to Lisbon!

I can't understand why Libertas would need Trippi when they've got you

cactus flower wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

I take it that's a "Yes".

Indeed it is a yes, yes to the EU. But no to Lisbon!

I can't understand why Libertas would need Trippi when they've got you

Two heads are better than one.

cookiemonster wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

I take it that's a "Yes".

Indeed it is a yes, yes to the EU. But no to Lisbon!

I can't understand why Libertas would need Trippi when they've got you

Two heads are better than one.

You can be a Trippi Advisor.

cookiemonster wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:

who is your
fundraiser cookie and how is he paid? does he get a % of the
take?

I assume you are asking about Joe Trippi, Fellow
at the Institute of Politics at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government,
author of The Revolution Will Not Be Televised: Democracy, the
Internet, and the Overthrow of Everything, fellow at The New Democratic
Network's "the New Politics Institute" think tank and has been involved
or been leader of numerous political campaigns for leading Democrats
from Edward Kennedy, Walter Mondale, Gary Hart, Dick Gephardt, John
Edwards and was campaign manager for Howard Dean presidental
campaign.

yes indeed I was, the fundraiser for the losers BUT a first rate
fundraiser , his claimn to fame being that he pulls in big bucks for
turkey candidates.

My second question was how are you paying him? A cut of the take plus wages or commission only?

Frightened Albanian wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:

who is your
fundraiser cookie and how is he paid? does he get a % of the
take?

I assume you are asking about Joe Trippi, Fellow
at the Institute of Politics at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government,
author of The Revolution Will Not Be Televised: Democracy, the
Internet, and the Overthrow of Everything, fellow at The New Democratic
Network's "the New Politics Institute" think tank and has been involved
or been leader of numerous political campaigns for leading Democrats
from Edward Kennedy, Walter Mondale, Gary Hart, Dick Gephardt, John
Edwards and was campaign manager for Howard Dean presidental
campaign.

yes indeed I was, the fundraiser for the losers BUT a first rate
fundraiser , his claimn to fame being that he pulls in big bucks for
turkey candidates.

• He worked on the successful reelection of Tom Bradley as Mayor of Los Angeles.
  
• He worked on the successful state convention in Maine and on the successful primary campaigns in Iowa
• and Pennsylvania for Jimmy Carter's Vice President Walter Mondale.
  
• He worked on the successful campaign for Govenor of Virginia for Jerry Baliles,
  
• the successful election campaign for California Senator Alan Cranston,
  
• the successful election campaign for Senator from Maryland for Barbara Mikulski
  
• for the successfuk campaign for Governor of Pennsylvania for Bob Casey.
  
• He was responsible for winning the Iowa caucuses for Missouri's Dick Gephardt in 1987.
  
• He worked on Congressman Jim Moran's successful election campaign in 1990,
  
• Worked on Congresswoman Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky's successful election campaign in 1992
  
• He worked on Andreas Papandreou's successful campaign for Prime Minister of Greece in 1993
  
• He worked on the successful campaign for Senator Ron Wyden
  
• for Governor of Oregon John Kitzhaber successful campaign
  
• And also on the successful election campaign for Congressman Tim Holden
  
• The successful election campaign for New York Congressman John Hall
  
• Worked on Tony Blair's reelection campaign in 2005 and on the successful campaign for Romano Prodi in 2006
  

These people are "losers" and "turkey candidates"? I think the only turkey here is your political knowledge.

Really, is there anybody's reputation you won't pathetically attempt to smear in order to get a kick in at Ganley?

Cooke, if Declan Ganley were to fail in his attempts to gain election, presuming he stands. Is it the intention of Libertas that he would remain its leader/chairman (don't know the precise title) or would we likely see him replaced by someone who does gain election, presuming some candidates do.

the truth revealed at last as swedish party June List annouce that Libertas offered them 10 mil SEK to join Libertas. this was a sweetner and NOT the actual campaign costs. Swedish radio interview with Sören Wibe.

read More

This is amazing stuff

Libertas ARE out there buying parties as I have said all along / Shows the true character of their supporters.

The near 1 mil euro was a sweetner not the campaign budget.

puts a context on The Producers analogy that poeple korps is pushing
Is Declan Ganley another Max Bialystock?Is Declan Ganley another Max Bialystock?

Irish Times reports that Libertas REFUSED to comment, thats a first
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0305/1224242305498.html

LIBERTAS BECAME embroiled in fresh controversy yesterday following its attempts to persuade a Swedish Eurosceptic party to merge with the organisation in Sweden.

Sören Wibe, leader of Junilistan (The June List), claims that representatives from anti-Lisbon Treaty party Libertas offered considerable sums of money, including almost €1 million on one occasion, if his party agreed to change its name to Junilistan-Libertas.

After the story appeared in the Swedish media earlier this week, Anita Kelly, a spokeswoman for Libertas, told Sweden’s state-funded radio station P1 that no such offer had been made. “We did not make any offer to any party to run with Libertas or anything like that. We have discussed budgets as we would with anyone, but money was not offered,” she said.

Libertas was registered as a political party by the Swedish Election Authority on Tuesday after the organisation gathered the 1,500 signatures required for registration.

Mr Wibe, whose party was formed the year after Swedish voters rejected the adoption of the euro in a 2003 referendum, told The Irish Times he had met with Libertas founder Declan Ganley in Sweden in January. The offers of financial assistance had come from Libertas representatives of Scandinavian origin on other occasions, and not from Mr Ganley, he added.

“One of my colleagues was offered 10 million kronor [about €900,000] for the party and, in other discussions, it was clear that sums of that size were available,” Mr Wibe said.

“I have at least a dozen witnesses who can verify that these approaches were made.”

Junilistan garnered 14 per cent of the vote in Sweden’s 2004 European elections and won three seats in the European Parliament out of the country’s allocation of 19. The party is a member of the Independence and Democracy grouping in Brussels.

Libertas intends to run candidates in all 27 member states in the European Parliament elections in June in an attempt to transform the ballot into a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Mr Wibe said he was shocked by the nature of Libertas’s overtures to his party. “I believe [Libertas’s] behaviour was extremely unethical,” he said yesterday. “I was insulted. It would be extremely unethical for our party to be funded by a millionaire from another country. It goes against everything we stand for.”

Of Mr Ganley, he said: “I do believe that he means well, but I also believe he is not a politician. He doesn’t understand that doing politics is not the same as doing business.”

In a statement posted on its website, Junilistan said: “Politics is not money. Politics is credibility and being true to the message you deliver to your voters.”

Libertas did not return calls yesterday for comment.

Libertas are in Shut down the only place Cookie is commenting is on Libertas Nein Danke the blogger people Korps has posted the following which is of interest in itself
People Korps said...

Quote :

A User from the libertas employee David Cochrane's Politics.ie who works for Libertas, Cookiemonster, has been trying to sell Libertas snake oil through the comment section here. His comments will no longer be published as he has a whole website politics.ie to play with. I recommend you view his comments on irelands best political forum Machine Nation
Machine Nation March 5, 2009 2:27 AM

Frightened Albanian wrote:

Libertas are in Shut down the only place Cookie is commenting is on Libertas Nein Danke the blogger people Korps has posted the following which is of interest in itself
People Korps said...

Quote :

A User from the libertas employee David Cochrane's Politics.ie who works for Libertas, Cookiemonster, has been trying to sell Libertas snake oil through the comment section here. His comments will no longer be published as he has a whole website politics.ie to play with. I recommend you view his comments on irelands best political forum Machine Nation
Machine Nation March 5, 2009 2:27 AM

So the blogger "peoplekorps" has not only on a previous occasion revealed the location on contributors to his site, speculated that they are Libertas employees but now he's also speculating on the actual identity of contributors to his site. Thats's very nice of him.

And now he's also censoring debate, that's very open of him. What sort of coward is he that he won't allow his lies and smear stand up to public scrutiny? Pretty pathetic behaviour from a pretty pathetic individual.

Cookie, can you shed some light on the question I asked above, as quoted below, which might have gone missing in Frightened Albanian's fervour.

In addition to any knowledge of the policy of Libertas in the event of the scenario below occurring would you be happy to share your personal opinion on the issue? Would Declan Ganley lose your confidence and support as the leader of Libertas if it were to transpire that Libertas candidates gained a mandate at the European Elections but that he did not?

Two distinct questions really - in the first instance the policy of the organisation and in the second your personal opinion, if you are happy sharing that.

johnfás wrote:

Cookie, if Declan Ganley were to fail in his attempts to gain election, presuming he stands. Is it the intention of Libertas that he would remain its leader/chairman (don't know the precise title) or would we likely see him replaced by someone who does gain election, presuming some candidates do.

Frightened Albanian wrote:

Irish Times reports that Libertas REFUSED to comment, thats a first
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0305/1224242305498.html

[i]
After the story appeared in the Swedish media earlier this week, Anita Kelly, a spokeswoman for Libertas, told Sweden’s state-funded radio station P1 that no such offer had been made. “We did not make any offer to any party to run with Libertas or anything like that. We have discussed budgets as we would with anyone, but money was not offered,” she said.

You are telling lies again, Frightened Albanian. Libertas did not "refuse" to comment, There is, infact, a whole paragraph quote from Libertas spokesperson Anita Kelly included in that Itish Times article which you have quoted in full, presumably without the author's permission.

As for the censorial coward "people korps", he neglected to mention that Junilistan will be running candidates in the European Elections and he has convieniently ignored the possibility that these claims are politically motivated.

Much the same way his repression of discussion on that matter has exculded from his blog the corrction on yet more lies and inaccuracy. As was pointed out to you earlier when you tried to include Joe Trippi in your little net of smear, lies and factoids, it is far from the truth to say of Joe Trippi "Trippi is a genius when it comes to fundraising but less successful at backing winners" when infact I pointed out to you an extensive, but by no means exhaustive list of Joe Trippi's campaign successes. It seems I was right about you and, curiously enough inadvertently right about "peoplekorps" when I said there was nobody you would't attempt to smear in a pathetic effort to get a kick in a Ganley. Of course readers of Peoplekorps blog are obviously not not entitled to experience any truth on the website at all, renouned liar that he is, but for the benefit of anybody who may have missed it the last time...

He worked on the successful reelection of Tom Bradley as Mayor of Los Angeles.
He worked on the successful state convention in Maine and on the successful primary campaigns in Iowa
and Pennsylvania for Jimmy Carter's Vice President Walter Mondale.
He worked on the successful campaign for Govenor of Virginia for Jerry Baliles,
the successful election campaign for California Senator Alan Cranston,
the successful election campaign for Senator from Maryland for Barbara Mikulski
for the successfuk campaign for Governor of Pennsylvania for Bob Casey.
He was responsible for winning the Iowa caucuses for Missouri's Dick Gephardt in 1987.
He worked on Congressman Jim Moran's successful election campaign in 1990,
Worked on Congresswoman Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky's successful election campaign in 1992
He worked on Andreas Papandreou's successful campaign for Prime Minister of Greece in 1993
He worked on the successful campaign for Senator Ron Wyden
for Governor of Oregon John Kitzhaber successful campaign
And also on the successful election campaign for Congressman Tim Holden
The successful election campaign for New York Congressman John Hall
Worked on Tony Blair's reelection campaign in 2005 and on the successful campaign for Romano Prodi in 2006

johnfás wrote:

Cookie, can you shed some light on the question I asked above, as quoted below, which might have gone missing in Frightened Albanian's fervour.

In addition to any knowledge of the policy of Libertas in the event of the scenario below occurring would you be happy to share your personal opinion on the issue? Would Declan Ganley lose your confidence and support as the leader of Libertas if it were to transpire that Libertas candidates gained a mandate at the European Elections but that he did not?

Two distinct questions really - in the first instance the policy of the organisation and in the second your personal opinion, if you are happy sharing that.

johnfás wrote:

Cookie, if Declan Ganley were to fail in his attempts to gain election, presuming he stands. Is it the intention of Libertas that he would remain its leader/chairman (don't know the precise title) or would we likely see him replaced by someone who does gain election, presuming some candidates do.

As I have said before, Libertas policies will be announced following the first party conference later this month.

Are you prepared to give your personal opinion on the issue? You said yourself you are not a member of the organisation, merely a supporter, so you aren't bound by the policies of the organisation.

Would Declan Ganley lose your confidence as leader* if he did not gain a mandate in the European Elections but other candidates, perhaps in other jurisdictions, did so?


*By the way... what is his position described as, leader?

johnfás wrote:

Would Declan Ganley lose your confidence as leader* if he did not gain a mandate in the European Elections but other candidates, perhaps in other jurisdictions, did so?

He has my support right now, that may change in the future depending on a myriad curcumstances.

And what about the particular circumstance which I have outlined?

You should think of standing for office yourself, you apply the same policy of talking around the issues which I thought Libertas we seeking to break the mould of. That is the aim of Libertas, right? Transparency, accountability etc etc. It seems to me there wouldn't be a huge amount of accountability if the leader of a party did not gain election himself - would you not agree?

I am not sure whether this is most relevant to this thread, or the thread called "Privatisation of Politics" so I will post it in both.

I didn't think I was capable of being shocked by anything I heard about Libertas, but I must admit to being shocked at this report in the Irish Times. It appears, and I see no reason to disbelieve the report, that Libertas has attempted to "buy" a Swedish Eurosceptic Party for a sum in the region of €1 million euros.

The comment of the Swedish source was very similar to the recent statement of the Czech President, that Ganley does not understand the difference between politics and business.


Libertas in fresh controversy over bid to recruit Swedish group
MARY FITZGERALD, Foreign Affairs Correspondent

Quote :

Libertas embroiled in fresh controversy yesterday following its attempts to persuade a Swedish Eurosceptic party to merge with the organisation in Sweden.

Sören Wibe, leader of Junilistan (The June List), claims that representatives from anti-Lisbon Treaty party Libertas offered considerable sums of money, including almost €1 million on one occasion, if his party agreed to change its name to Junilistan-Libertas.

After the story appeared in the Swedish media earlier this week, Anita Kelly, a spokeswoman for Libertas, told Sweden’s state-funded radio station P1 that no such offer had been made. “We did not make any offer to any party to run with Libertas or anything like that. We have discussed budgets as we would with anyone, but money was not offered,” she said.

Libertas was registered as a political party by the Swedish Election Authority on Tuesday after the organisation gathered the 1,500 signatures required for registration.

Mr Wibe, whose party was formed the year after Swedish voters rejected the adoption of the euro in a 2003 referendum, told The Irish Times he had met with Libertas founder Declan Ganley in Sweden in January. The offers of financial assistance had come from Libertas representatives of Scandinavian origin on other occasions, and not from Mr Ganley, he added.

“One of my colleagues was offered 10 million kronor [about €900,000] for the party and, in other discussions, it was clear that sums of that size were available,” Mr Wibe said.
“I have at least a dozen witnesses who can verify that these approaches were made.”

Junilistan garnered 14 per cent of the vote in Sweden’s 2004 European elections and won three seats in the European Parliament out of the country’s allocation of 19. The party is a member of the Independence and Democracy grouping in Brussels.

Libertas intends to run candidates in all 27 member states in the European Parliament elections in June in an attempt to transform the ballot into a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Mr Wibe said he was shocked by the nature of Libertas’s overtures to his party. “I believe [Libertas’s] behaviour was extremely unethical,” he said yesterday. “I was insulted. It would be extremely unethical for our party to be funded by a millionaire from another country. It goes against everything we stand for.”

Of Mr Ganley, he said: “I do believe that he means well, but I also believe he is not a politician. He doesn’t understand that doing politics is not the same as doing business.”

In a statement posted on its website, Junilistan said: “Politics is not money. Politics is credibility and being true to the message you deliver to your voters.”

Libertas did not return calls yesterday for comment.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0305/1224242305498.html http://www.junilistan.se/

I would question who the Swedish "Libertas Representatives" who are able to make these offers are, given that the Party as yet has no membership.

Are similar things going on in other European countries ? Were any of the Libertas signatories of the application for European funding offered money for their names?

The Swedish Eurosceptic Party has policies very different from Ganley's pro Europe stance. Were they supposed to change their policies in exchange for money ?

What utter contempt for democracy this attempt at "Party buying" shows.

cactus flower wrote:

The comment of the Swedish source was very similar to the recent statement of the Czech President, that Ganley does not understand the difference between politics and business.

It does indeed bear a striking resemblance to Vaclav Klaus' protégé Petr Mach's comments to the IT last January concerning Ganley's electoral hopes in the Czech Republic:

Quote :

"I tried to explain to him that setting up parties is a different thing
than setting up businesses. If he has a business he can set up
subsidiaries and he would then be the main shareholder of it. It is
different with political parties," said Mr Mach, who held talks with Mr
Ganley on whether to join forces and form a Czech Libertas.

"In all countries the public will always consider him a stranger
because he speaks a different language. It is impossible to campaign in
a foreign language. I think you cannot apply a business concept to
politics."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/0112/1231515550133.html