youngdan wrote:

Economics is as they say an inexact science. This simply means that whatever gibberish they spout is rarely given the chance of being disproved.

The lads with a marxist bent will for example say that Cuba is a success and things are bad because of the US. They have excuses for the Soviet Union collapsing as well and now want to try it again. These are the lads that most posters here like Cactus would listen to.

Then you have the lads preaching the fiat money crony capitalism like now

Then you have the Ausrtrians who are against fiat mone

Is that really exhaustive youngdan? Sounds like it almost is. Would you say there is a bastardisation of crony capitalism and token socialism too - called 'Making it up as you're going along' or 'Muddling Along' ? It seems the Irish set up could be much like that as we tend to respond to external factors rather than create our own opportunities or even conditions for opportunities - unlike the Swiss who it seems are a grouping of micro-states with a high interest in self-determination and they co-ordinate political power with economic to get stuff done that they need. Could be the Germans are like that too to some degree.

What about the impact of technology and engineering on economics ? Hasn't this got to be explored in detail somewhere ? My nagging impression is that humans can produce as much as we need in terms of most basics but we seem to have a problem distributing those basics in some way equitably. I'm not preaching Socialism I just think with the inventions, advancements and refinements in machines, 5 people can farm for 100 or more... It's not that it should be like that, it just is because it's often 'most efficient' that way. Sometimes it's not even efficient it's just an inherent feature of the technology; software for example is ideal for copying and distributing and filling the world with and has no limit in terms of natural resources. What's software ? Songs, music, video, programmes on radio, computer programs, shareware, firmware, opensource ...

One limit on production however, is natural resource depletion....

I also strongly feel there may be an important geographic/climatic element to economics that is often be overlooked in textbooks. Ireland may be considered a peculiar geographic case - fewer options to travel here than between countries in mainland Europe or in Eurasia. This also affects trade plus we should have fairly good sea resources for food and energy as well as tourism.


Geographically we're also a small country with fertile territory and a mild climate so in theory we don't need to go very far for the basics if we make any effort at all. The Spanish wage an everlasting war in an effort to get enough water for consumption. We I suppose wage a war to keep water out of our houses.

Coupled with history and events which may have skewed our population distribution, Ireland is a bit of an odd one at times.

A friend of a friend made this to help people like us along our way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3PyONSmPus

On a more serious note, Chris Martenson's crash course in economic here: http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

He's a libertarian so it will probably have a very strong spin on it but I am looking forward to viewing it nonetheless. It is available as video clips and text.

evercloserunion wrote:

On a more serious note, Chris Martenson's crash course in economic here: http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

He's a libertarian so it will probably have a very strong spin on it but I am looking forward to viewing it nonetheless. It is available as video clips and text.

I'm half way through it at the moment. It's very well constructed and a great yoke for beginners. I like the way he seperates two kinds of debt

-one you get return from i.e. borrowing for education

-one you don't get an income from ever - a house.

Auditor #9 wrote:

-one you don't get an income from ever - a house.

Oh yes you do. You're living in the house rent-free meaning you save the amount you would otherwise have spent renting the property. Your real income is enhanced by up to €15,000 per annum due to the fact that you are living in a home on which you do not have to pay rent!

I lost a post in this thread the other day(when I inadvertently pressed the back key), but this thread reminds me of the threads on economic theory in the early days of MN.

This one is on Monopoly;

https://machinenation.forumakers.com/theory-and-history-f17/monopolyno-not-the-game-t363.htm

the following is on the various schools of economic thought;

https://machinenation.forumakers.com/theory-and-history-f17/economic-thought-t117.htm

another on that nirvana of economics - perfect competition!

https://machinenation.forumakers.com/theory-and-history-f17/perfect-competition-an-exercise-in-wistfulness-t341.htm

and a final one on another beauty - free trade!

https://machinenation.forumakers.com/theory-and-history-f17/free-trade-t586.htm

Auditor #9 wrote:

I also strongly feel there may be an important geographic/climatic element to economics that is often be overlooked in textbooks. Ireland may be considered a peculiar geographic case - fewer options to travel here than between countries in mainland Europe or in Eurasia. This also affects trade plus we should have fairly good sea resources for food and energy as well as tourism.


Geographically we're also a small country with fertile territory and a mild climate so in theory we don't need to go very far for the basics if we make any effort at all. The Spanish wage an everlasting war in an effort to get enough water for consumption. We I suppose wage a war to keep water out of our houses.

Coupled with history and events which may have skewed our population distribution, Ireland is a bit of an odd one at times.

Did ye watch Jared on More 4 on Saturday night? A two-hour prog "Guns Germs and Steel", based on the original book, which I haven't read yet. Geography featuring very strongly, as all Collapse readers would expect.
Was a good general programme, actually.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

-one you don't get an income from ever - a house.

Oh yes you do. You're living in the house rent-free meaning you save the amount you would otherwise have spent renting the property. Your real income is enhanced by up to €15,000 per annum due to the fact that you are living in a home on which you do not have to pay rent!

And you can also use your house for renting out to other people or you can start up a B&B or maybe even a small restaurant so you're dead right even though it said otherwise in the film. Very generalising I suppose. The same with a car or a lawnmower - you can make these things bring in some moolah for you if you want. By and large not though - although there used to be a lot more B&Bs in the past I think and a lot more fellas using their cars for hackneys.

Maybe that film 'Crash Course' should be called 'Crap Course' so ..

Auditor #9 wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

-one you don't get an income from ever - a house.

Oh yes you do. You're living in the house rent-free meaning you save the amount you would otherwise have spent renting the property. Your real income is enhanced by up to €15,000 per annum due to the fact that you are living in a home on which you do not have to pay rent!

And you can also use your house for renting out to other people or you can start up a B&B or maybe even a small restaurant so you're dead right even though it said otherwise in the film. Very generalising I suppose. The same with a car or a lawnmower - you can make these things bring in some moolah for you if you want. By and large not though - although there used to be a lot more B&Bs in the past I think and a lot more fellas using their cars for hackneys.

Maybe that film 'Crash Course' should be called 'Crap Course' so ..

Exactly. Rent-a-room is a classic example of how you can earn a return on your primary residence. You can also grow things in your garden and sell them to others.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

-one you don't get an income from ever - a house.

Oh yes you do. You're living in the house rent-free meaning you save the amount you would otherwise have spent renting the property. Your real income is enhanced by up to €15,000 per annum due to the fact that you are living in a home on which you do not have to pay rent!

And you can also use your house for renting out to other people or you can start up a B&B or maybe even a small restaurant so you're dead right even though it said otherwise in the film. Very generalising I suppose. The same with a car or a lawnmower - you can make these things bring in some moolah for you if you want. By and large not though - although there used to be a lot more B&Bs in the past I think and a lot more fellas using their cars for hackneys.

Maybe that film 'Crash Course' should be called 'Crap Course' so ..

The official name for this concept I've described is imputed rent. It's one of the reasons why National Income statistics are imprecise.

Since it is Austrian school it should be taken with a pinch of salt, but in fairness to the Austrian schoolers, yd included, they do try their best to educate people about economics. Would that the other schools of economic thought made their theory so accessible.

I am very positive about a new blog, progressive-economy@TASC http://www.progressive-economy.ie/ an Irish economics blog with a progressive focus. Definitely one for the portal I think, I'm almost considering started a new thread for it but it seems fine to announce it here.

evercloserunion wrote:

Since it is Austrian school it should be taken with a pinch of salt, but in fairness to the Austrian schoolers, yd included, they do try their best to educate people about economics. Would that the other schools of economic thought made their theory so accessible.

I am very positive about a new blog, progressive-economy@TASC http://www.progressive-economy.ie/ an Irish economics blog with a progressive focus. Definitely one for the portal I think, I'm almost considering started a new thread for it but it seems fine to announce it here.

Furthermore, irisheconomy.ie was ranked as one of the top 100 blogs in the world in a Sunday Times Culture survey in the last two weeks.

Atticus wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

I also strongly feel there may be an important geographic/climatic element to economics that is often be overlooked in textbooks. Ireland may be considered a peculiar geographic case - fewer options to travel here than between countries in mainland Europe or in Eurasia. This also affects trade plus we should have fairly good sea resources for food and energy as well as tourism.


Geographically we're also a small country with fertile territory and a mild climate so in theory we don't need to go very far for the basics if we make any effort at all. The Spanish wage an everlasting war in an effort to get enough water for consumption. We I suppose wage a war to keep water out of our houses.

Coupled with history and events which may have skewed our population distribution, Ireland is a bit of an odd one at times.

Did ye watch Jared on More 4 on Saturday night? A two-hour prog "Guns Germs and Steel", based on the original book, which I haven't read yet. Geography featuring very strongly, as all Collapse readers would expect.
Was a good general programme, actually.

I just caught the end of it. Hope it turns up again: I haven't read GGandS.