Well not off-hand, but I remember the good ole Israeli ambassador wrote an article for the Irish Times a while ago. God love him he tries. Unfortunately, there's no way he can spin much of what his country gets up to in a good light and he ends up looking quite foolish at best, downright malicious at worst.

Along comes Browne to counter some his arguments. The problem is Browne takes it way too far and ends up looking as foolish/malicious as the ambassador. I'm afraid I can't remember any details, I don't really collect Browneisms. What I hate is that the ambassador arguments defeat themselves, and then Browne comes along to outdo him.

905 wrote:

Well not off-hand, but I remember the good ole Israeli ambassador wrote an article for the Irish Times a while ago. God love him he tries. Unfortunately, there's no way he can spin much of what his country gets up to in a good light and he ends up looking quite foolish at best, downright malicious at worst.

Along comes Browne to counter some his arguments. The problem is Browne takes it way too far and ends up looking as foolish/malicious as the ambassador. I'm afraid I can't remember any details, I don't really collect Browneisms. What I hate is that the ambassador arguments defeat themselves, and then Browne comes along to outdo him.

That's a common failing, alas.

Certainly from watching the RTE News I would be lead to believe that Israel = Bad and Palestine = Good. To widen the media/cyber war analogy it appears to me that the use of Israeli flags in loyalist areas of Belfast and Palestinian ones is indicative of a wider view that most if not all Irish Nationalists/Republicans uncritically support the Palestinians and most if not all unionists support Israel. Funny that.

Teasing this out, is it the case for many here that the two state solution of a parallel Palestine and Israel is dead and that the conflict has degenerated back into which side can crush the other to the extent that the conflict doesn't trip into a West versus Islamic war? It seems that way now.

Ronald Binge wrote:

Certainly from watching the RTE News I would be lead to believe that Israel = Bad and Palestine = Good. To widen the media/cyber war analogy it appears to me that the use of Israeli flags in loyalist areas of Belfast and Palestinian ones is indicative of a wider view that most if not all Irish Nationalists/Republicans uncritically support the Palestinians and most if not all unionists support Israel. Funny that.

Teasing this out, is it the case for many here that the two state solution of a parallel Palestine and Israel is dead and that the conflict has degenerated back into which side can crush the other to the extent that the conflict doesn't trip into a West versus Islamic war? It seems that way now.

I never heard that. There are a lot of parallels between Jewish and Protestant concepts of pilgrimage.

I would assume that two-state solution is still the only option. Hamas and Israel will eventually have another truce and hopefully some kind of deal can be reached. The Israelis need to accept the democratic mandate of Hamas while Hamas have to accept the permanence of the Israeli state. Neither sounds too difficult to me, it's just a matter of opening one's eyes. From there they could make progress.

Israel knows that settlement with the Palestinians is the only possibility they have for peace.

905 wrote:

Ronald Binge wrote:

Certainly from watching the RTE News I would be lead to believe that Israel = Bad and Palestine = Good. To widen the media/cyber war analogy it appears to me that the use of Israeli flags in loyalist areas of Belfast and Palestinian ones is indicative of a wider view that most if not all Irish Nationalists/Republicans uncritically support the Palestinians and most if not all unionists support Israel. Funny that.

Teasing this out, is it the case for many here that the two state solution of a parallel Palestine and Israel is dead and that the conflict has degenerated back into which side can crush the other to the extent that the conflict doesn't trip into a West versus Islamic war? It seems that way now.

I never heard that. There are a lot of parallels between Jewish and Protestant concepts of pilgrimage.

I would assume that two-state solution is still the only option. Hamas and Israel will eventually have another truce and hopefully some kind of deal can be reached. The Israelis need to accept the democratic mandate of Hamas while Hamas have to accept the permanence of the Israeli state. Neither sounds too difficult to me, it's just a matter of opening one's eyes. From there they could make progress.

Israel knows that settlement with the Palestinians is the only possibility they have for peace.

I think Ronald Binge may be right. There was a letter in the Irish Times two days ago that quoted an Israeli general saying that they had to learn from their own history and that included the Warsaw Ghetto. For those who don't know, there was an uprising in the Ghetto at the end of the war and the place and most people in it were obliterated by the German Army. The Russians could have got there but chose to hold back.

I think in some way too, the whole exercise is using Gaza as a proxy or practise run for Iran at the same time as hitting at Hamas. There were a lot of references from the Israelis to Iranian support for Hamas in the first days of this. They are engaging in a massive air strike and using a new type of "bunker buster" bombs, possibly uranium tipped, that would be of a type far more understandably used against buried nuclear installations than against apartment blocks and mud tunnels in Gaza.

They are destroying the whole civil infrastructure of Gaza that made it in any way a tolerable and normal society - university, police stations, parliament building.
The old phrase "bombing them back to the stone age" comes to mind.

God bless the good ol' US or A who supplied the weapons and who back this attack.

What has the Warsaw ghetto to do with things; is he saying they should try to obliterate the offending minority like the Nazis, or simply defend their own community at all costs?

Israel needs the permission of the US in order to attack Iran. They won't get it from Obama.

I very much doubt they regard a Hamas-run region as a tolerable normal society.

905 wrote:

What has the Warsaw ghetto to do with things; is he saying they should try to obliterate the offending minority like the Nazis, or simply defend their own community at all costs?

Israel needs the permission of the US in order to attack Iran. They won't get it from Obama.

I very much doubt they regard a Hamas-run region as a tolerable normal society.

The former.

cactus flower wrote:

905 wrote:

What has the Warsaw ghetto to do with things; is he saying they should try to obliterate the offending minority like the Nazis, or simply defend their own community at all costs?

Israel needs the permission of the US in order to attack Iran. They won't get it from Obama.

I very much doubt they regard a Hamas-run region as a tolerable normal society.

The former.

And do you see a problem with the aping of Nazi tactics being acceptable to the general Israeli public, not to mention the Americans?

I'd like to see this letter. When was it written?

905 wrote:

But no Mossad agent am I.

That's EXACTLY what a Mossad agent would say...

905 wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

905 wrote:

What has the Warsaw ghetto to do with things; is he saying they should try to obliterate the offending minority like the Nazis, or simply defend their own community at all costs?

Israel needs the permission of the US in order to attack Iran. They won't get it from Obama.

I very much doubt they regard a Hamas-run region as a tolerable normal society.

The former.

And do you see a problem with the aping of Nazi tactics being acceptable to the general Israeli public, not to mention the Americans?

I'd like to see this letter. When was it written?

The IT letter was written two days ago - but I see now that the quote is from 2002.

Quote :

Madam, - In 2002, in advance of Ariel Sharon's so-called "Defensive Shield" campaign, an Israeli army officer famously advised "internalis[ing] the lessons of earlier battles — even, however shocking it may sound, even how the German army fought in the Warsaw ghetto".
Yet even this ignoble precedent has been surpassed by the present onslaught on Gaza, whereby an essentially defenceless population of 1.5 million people, a protected population under the terms of the fourth Geneva Convention, has been hermetically isolated for more than three years, starved of food, fuel and medication, then subjected to a massive bombardment by the air-force of the world's fourth most powerful army. This with the blessing of the venal head of a quisling Palestinian regime (Mahmoud Abbas), a venal neighbouring dictatorship (Egypt), the entire European Union with its preposterous claim to honour human rights, the outgoing failed president of the US, and (judging by his conspicuous silence) the incoming president of that country, the saintly Mr Obama and his entire AIPAC-backed cabinet-in-waiting of Clintonite has-beens. - Yours, etc,

RAYMOND DEANE,
Dun Laoghaire,
Co Dublin.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2008/1231/1230581504694.html

cookiemonster wrote:

905 wrote:

But no Mossad agent am I.

That's EXACTLY what a Mossad agent would say...

Likewise CIA agents

cactus flower wrote:

The IT letter was written two days ago - but I see now that the quote is from 2002.

Quote :

Madam, - In 2002, in advance of Ariel Sharon's so-called "Defensive Shield" campaign, an Israeli army officer famously advised "internalis[ing] the lessons of earlier battles — even, however shocking it may sound, even how the German army fought in the Warsaw ghetto".
Yet even this ignoble precedent has been surpassed by the present onslaught on Gaza, whereby an essentially defenceless population of 1.5 million people, a protected population under the terms of the fourth Geneva Convention, has been hermetically isolated for more than three years, starved of food, fuel and medication, then subjected to a massive bombardment by the air-force of the world's fourth most powerful army. This with the blessing of the venal head of a quisling Palestinian regime (Mahmoud Abbas), a venal neighbouring dictatorship (Egypt), the entire European Union with its preposterous claim to honour human rights, the outgoing failed president of the US, and (judging by his conspicuous silence) the incoming president of that country, the saintly Mr Obama and his entire AIPAC-backed cabinet-in-waiting of Clintonite has-beens. - Yours, etc,

RAYMOND DEANE,
Dun Laoghaire,
Co Dublin.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2008/1231/1230581504694.html

And he weren't a general either.

Deane really annoys me, along with his pro-Israeli counterpart. When has Abbas 'blessed' the bombing of Gaza?

Dr Andre Obler is an advisor and lecturer (he says anyway) on Israel and Zionism on the web. He is a great hero to Zionist web geeks.

he has contributed to Wikipedia under his own name but has also been associated with other far right zionist groups though he contradicted the JIDF claim that he was one of their advisers. I am pretty sure this came about as he was getting high google hits from his mentions on wiki talk pages.
It would be a good idea to compile a list and links to other individuals and groups that promote Zionism on the web for our own research purposes. One of the great underhand weapons used by the Zionist web lobby is to "out" people as being "anti-semetic" on the basis of their political opposition to Israel's actions against Palistinians. This is of course a crude but effective stick with which to beat people.


http://www.zionismontheweb.org/internet_warfare/Introduction_to_the_Wikipedia_Electronic_Intifada_Camera_story.htm

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/new/Exposed_-_Anti-Israeli_Subversion_on_Wikipedia.asp

(Dis ) honestreporting


and Camera
are hard line Zionist web groups



Be careful out there you may , like me, believe that Bob Dylan is the "king of the Jews" but the wanna be Mossad web geeks will still brand people as anti Semites.

See

http://www.zionismontheweb.org/antisemitism/oboler_expert_warns_on_internet_antisemitism.htm

Note they call Obler an expert. Plus anti-Semitic rather than anti-Zionist or pro Palestinian is their catchword

Quote :

SOCIAL media expert Dr Andre Oboler has issued a dire warning about the transmission of anti-Semitic online cultural values.

Personally I think that tack is good for playing to the home team and Jewish grandmothers in Canada etc plus good for getting the $$$$ flowing to both the Israeli state and to groups around the world that promote this type of hatred.

One issue to bear in mind is that all these groups promote race hatred against Arabs and religious hatred against Muslims.

So their anti Semitism claims rebound as the Arabs are also Semites.

Judeophobia is not the same as pro palistinian or pro peace as they claim.

I feel that these people need a little exposure as it weakens their campaign which is on going and continuous even when the air raids have stopped.

Given Obler's fan base among rascist Zioniat on the web the following article on from online Guardian is an interesting case of double standards

Quote :

A false prospectus on campus



'Anti-apartheid
week' is a crass misappropriation of an honourable anti-racist campaign
of the past for the sinister purpose of demonising Israel

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/15/afalseprospectusoncampus

There are undoubtedly anti-semitic people and groups who use the Palestinians as a stick to beat jewish people generally - I came across one yesterday. Racism is racism, wherever you find it.

This in turn is used by Zionists to beat anti-Zionists over the head.

The fact is that the Israeli government does not treat Palestinians as human beings. The Israeli government is also perpetrating a particularly vicious form of collective punishment.

A lot of people don't notice that. And it seems that the last person to notice will be the President of the U.S., be it Bush or Obama.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/index.html

This is an interesting site put together by an American journalist who has visited and studied Gaza. Its a reminder amongs other things of the more than 1,000 Palestinian children killed by the Israeli army since 2000.

There was a piece on the BBC about propaganda, which reckoned that the Israelis were indeed taking a pro-active approach in the media war.
BBC - Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

I still think the Israelis can be very stupid about these things, not letting reporters into the region looks as bad as what they'll report.

cactus flower wrote:

although the site has certainly been viewed from Israel over the last week on several occasions.

Ireland is the no.1 holiday destination for Israelis apparently.

Quote :

according to Ha'aretz newspaper, Ireland was the most popular destination for Israeli holidaymakers in 2000.

They were probably just looking for somewhere to go out when over here!

This is of course complete and utter bullcrap. Turkey is actually the preferred destination.

And of course Israel is in fact invisible according to Google maps.

I digress.. However this makes good reading on Ireland from Israel's view point.

Quote :

If one were to throw a sack of flour over the Irish parliament, it is unlikely that anybody pro-Israeli would become white.

http://www.moital.gov.il/NR/exeres/11E76928-6E01-4067-A49A-91172862977C.htm

www.ictu.ie/download/pdf/palestine_final.pdf.

Quote :

In Ireland as in Britain, the most prominent supporters of the Ireland
Palestine Solidarity Campaign (IPSC) are the academics and the trade
union movement. The call for a boycott of Israel has been endorsed by
the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU); IMPACT, the largest
public-sector union in the Republic of Ireland; and the Northern
Ireland Public Service Alliance (NIPSA), the largest public-sector
union in Northern Ireland.Israel is a soft target in Ireland as there
is very little organized opposition to the boycott calls.

Finally, back OT here's a link about Moroccan hackers "Team Evil" who have been busy defacing Israeli websites...

http://www.zionismontheweb.org/hackers/experts/team_evil.htm