Have they confirmed how they worked out the 1st of September as the key date in all of this? I wouldn't be surprised if the plant was producing this stuff for years.

[quote="Aragon"]This doesn't exactly reassure:

[quote]In 1936, Harvard University researchers performed experiments with rats exposing them to chemicals at rates similar to those chemical plant workers were exposed to. They reported [i]that "the chlorinated diphenyl [an early name for PCBs] is certainly capable of doing harm in very low concentrations and is probably the most dangerous of the chlorinated hydrocarbons studied. These experiments leave no doubt as to the possibility of systemic effects from the chlorinated naphthalenes and chlorinated diphenyls."[/i][/quote]

History of PCBs - and wouldn't you know it, our old friends Monsanto - proponents-in-chief of GM foods - in on the act from the outset:

[url=http://www.wsn.org/cwac/pcbfacts.html]http://www.wsn.org/cwac/pcbfacts.html[/url]

The chirstmas ham is a worry Johnfas. Can we agree to keep each other posted on the Christmas thread if we find a safe source? [My mother always recommends the bone end of the leg rather than the gammon if you don't buy a whole one because it has much more flavour with the bone in. This sort of advice might not be so welcome in the present context, however :pale: ].[/quote]

PCBs accumulate in bodyfats and stay there for years. They spilled into the rivers across Europe and were absorbed by fish. The otters ate the fish over the years and the pcbs concentrated in their systems. There are not many otters left.

The biochemist speaking on RTE on Saturday said that eating "clean" fats could help speed up the rate at which this stuff leaves the system. Fatty diets are a risk in themselves. It would help if we knew which products had been affected so we could decide if we need to increase our fat intake (and our exercise to burn it off) :bounce:
As the bio chemist said: no one can say its safe: a risk assessment needs to be done.

There was an aldicarb poisoning incident in Ireland in the early 1990s. Thousands of people in Ireland were affected, myself being one of them. Symptoms varied from wheeziness and headaches to flu-like symptoms without fever. I knew there was something wrong with me and had half the cucumber in the fridge and got it tested. The cucumber and I both contained aldicarb. Aldicarb is the trade name for the chemical substance that escaped in Bhopal, India and killed hundreds of people in their beds and in the streets. The packaging of the product was clearly labelled to say it should not be used on cucumbers.

The Department of Health said there were no lasting effects. At the time, there was little or no research - none on long term effects. There is more now - and of course it shows that there are very sigificant effects:
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/W-Porter-Endocrine.htm

PCBs would be of a similar order of toxicity to aldicarb, I think. I only ate a contaminated product once: if some people hadn't reported their wheeziness and been hospitalised I would never have known about the poisoning. I had a bad headache and tingling face and hands. Before aldicarb, I had a digestive system of cast iron. Since, I have a very sensitive system and periodic wheeziness. As far as I know, the Department of Health has never done any follow up study, and never took any action against the single grower who caused this problem.

Good show on Morning Ireland on it this morning

The whole show
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1208/morningireland_av.html?2459736,null,209


Bord Bia CEO Aidan Cotter discussing it with Cormac Healy, Irish Pigmeat Association Director
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1208/morningireland_av.html?2459737,null,209


Cian McCormack explaining how you can get your money back for purchases
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1208/morningireland_av.html?2459760,null,209


Paddy Rogan Chief Veterinary Officer says feed company Millstream being examined as possible source
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1208/morningireland_av.html?2459759,null,209


David Byrne, former EU Commissioner, talks about a similar contamination crisis in Belgium
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1208/morningireland_av.html?2459758,null,209


James Heffron from the Department of Biochemistry at UCC says we still do not have enough information to determine risk
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1208/morningireland_av.html?2459764,null,209


Alan Reilly, deputy chief executive of the FSA, says the exposure to dioxins in pork has been too short to cause any adverse health effects
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1208/morningireland_av.html?2459765,null,209


Seamus Bannon, communication manager at Tesco, admits that some pork was still being sold yesterday, but that it was an isolated incidentJames Heffron from the Department of Biochemistry at UCC says we still do not have enough information to determine risk
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1208/morningireland_av.html?2459766,null,209

I have to say, and it may be unreasonable, that I simply do not trust a word that is uttered by UCC, in particular, about this. They are heavily tied to the food industry, GM food and every imaginable sort of commercial/industrial tinkering around with food that their partner corporations are interested in. This article makes clear the very commercial nature of their involvement in this sector:

http://www.irishscientist.ie/p166,167.htm

Key quote from the above:

Quote :

This Partnership between Government, UCC and the food industry has been a vital element of the strategy to develop the food facilities at UCC and to establish a critical mass of human resources dedicated to food.

The 'vital element' is publicly funded research for corporate organisations. Research which is inescapably compromised by its context, in the opinion of many.

I'm not suggesting UCC is responsible for this pig disaster but the pronoucements of the Dept of Ag Fish Food, RTE and universities that are inextricably tied to the commercial food sector can't be regarded as appropriately independent or trustworthy, imo.

Anybody else hear that the contamination may have come from a well known bread manufacturers by products being used as a raw material in the pig feed manufacture ?

The knock on effects of this could be massive if the EU decide to ban Irish pork products.

Large quantities of corn will be dumped on the market.
Cheese and yoghurt manufacturers will have nowhere to put all the excess whey.
Thousands of jobs at stake, possibly billions of euro at stake.

Aragon wrote:

I have to say, and it may be unreasonable, that I simply do not trust a word that is uttered by UCC, in particular, about this. They are heavily tied to the food industry, GM food and every imaginable sort of commercial/industrial tinkering around with food that their partner corporations are interested in. This article makes clear the very commercial nature of their involvement in this sector:

http://www.irishscientist.ie/p166,167.htm

Key quote from the above:

Quote :

This Partnership between Government, UCC and the food industry has been a vital element of the strategy to develop the food facilities at UCC and to establish a critical mass of human resources dedicated to food.

The 'vital element' is publicly funded research for corporate organisations. Research which is inescapably compromised by its context, in the opinion of many.

I'm not suggesting UCC is responsible for this pig disaster but the pronoucements of the Dept of Ag Fish Food, RTE and universities that are inextricably tied to the commercial food sector can't be regarded as appropriately independent or trustworthy, imo.

Back off Aragon, and read the poor man's link. James Heffron has stuck his neck on the block and put himself out there to contradict the PR guff about how safe PCB dosing is all weekend and today. I've heard him three times so far and he's raging about the whole thing.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Anybody else hear that the contamination may have come from a well known bread manufacturers by products being used as a raw material in the pig feed manufacture ?

The knock on effects of this could be massive if the EU decide to ban Irish pork products.

Large quantities of corn will be dumped on the market.
Cheese and yoghurt manufacturers will have nowhere to put all the excess whey.
Thousands of jobs at stake, possibly billions of euro at stake.

It looks as if waste machine oils were added to pigswill? I know top class restaurants who were told their leftovers couldn't be fed to pigs.

Does anyone else remember a recent contamination scandal that had to do with something supplied from Ireland to the continent ? Bells are ringing but I can't remember details.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Anybody else hear that the contamination may have come from a well known bread manufacturers by products being used as a raw material in the pig feed manufacture ?

The knock on effects of this could be massive if the EU decide to ban Irish pork products.

Large quantities of corn will be dumped on the market.
Cheese and yoghurt manufacturers will have nowhere to put all the excess whey.
Thousands of jobs at stake, possibly billions of euro at stake.

i.e.
this



or this

Enough with that Babery, Auditor #9. I saw you eat a pile of rashers in the Dingle Breakfast Bar.

cactus flower wrote:

Enough with that Babery, Auditor #9. I saw you eat a pile of rashers in the Dingle Breakfast Bar.

I think you might have virtually seen me.

On news
900 people just laid off from 4 pig meat plants ...

cactus flower wrote:

Aragon wrote:

I have to say, and it may be unreasonable, that I simply do not trust a word that is uttered by UCC, in particular, about this. They are heavily tied to the food industry, GM food and every imaginable sort of commercial/industrial tinkering around with food that their partner corporations are interested in. This article makes clear the very commercial nature of their involvement in this sector:

http://www.irishscientist.ie/p166,167.htm

Key quote from the above:

Quote :

This Partnership between Government, UCC and the food industry has been a vital element of the strategy to develop the food facilities at UCC and to establish a critical mass of human resources dedicated to food.

The 'vital element' is publicly funded research for corporate organisations. Research which is inescapably compromised by its context, in the opinion of many.

I'm not suggesting UCC is responsible for this pig disaster but the pronoucements of the Dept of Ag Fish Food, RTE and universities that are inextricably tied to the commercial food sector can't be regarded as appropriately independent or trustworthy, imo.

Back off Aragon, and read the poor man's link. James Heffron has stuck his neck on the block and put himself out there to contradict the PR guff about how safe PCB dosing is all weekend and today. I've heard him three times so far and he's raging about the whole thing.

Back off yourself!!! I'm not singling him out personally and didn't mention his name in my post - my point is a general one about the relationship between government, industrial/commercial food production and universities which is heavily weighted in favour of commercial considerations. It has led to far less of an emphasis on health and safety than is needed.

As his name was mentioned in the above dispatches, in association with UCC, I think it is only fair to acknowledge that he has been the only soul in the public sphere to carry a torch for public health so far.

This chart shows the different regulations on how pig gelatine should be protected from contamination, and the relevant EU regs.
http://www.mvo.nl/voedselveiligheid/risk-analyses/download/Feed%20pig%20gelatin%20fat.pdf

My understanding of PCBs is that they accumulate in body fats. How many products have pork fat and gelatine in them? Some of the following, one assumes:

Soups
Icecream
Cooking lard
Cakes and biscuits, pastry
Jelly sweets
Jelly

Pet food

and Soap

Has the FSA said anything about this?

Auditor #9 wrote:

If they stayed that size, I'd get one as a dog. I'd call him Rover or Pinky.

They are very cute-looking, the little piggies.

Rush to re-stock pork market begins By Conor Ryan and Ray Ryan - Examiner

Quote :

SLAUGHTERHOUSES will this morning start killing pigs again in a dash to restock meat markets after a huge food scare forced the recall of all Irish pork products.

Chief veterinary officer Paddy Rogan said slaughtering of safe meat can recommence after the cause of the contamination was isolated to a food recycling centre in Wexford.

But the Department of Agriculture confirmed 100,000 pigs will still be destroyed as a precaution.

Millstream Recycling, a business registered in Bunclody, Co Wexford, and run by the Hogg family, last night confirmed it was helping the Food Safety Authority and the Department of Agriculture’s investigations.

These two bodies, assisted by the gardaí and the Environmental Protection Agency, are trying to determine how dioxins entered the food chain.

Millstream Recycling said given potential legal issues it could say very little, but would help the inquiry.

'What is safe to eat and who pays?' - there also seems to be a concern about beef safety - though official line is that it should be OK:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1208/1228571631090.html

cactus flower wrote:

As his name was mentioned in the above dispatches, in association with UCC, I think it is only fair to acknowledge that he has been the only soul in the public sphere to carry a torch for public health so far.
...

Yes, I heard him on the 9 news on saturday and I agreed with him that the scientific basis for all the talk going around was non-existent. It wearies me when the political and sensationalist guff drowns out the science and engineering at the heart of these matters, both the cause and the solution.

The Hogg Family ?? Is that for real ?

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

As his name was mentioned in the above dispatches, in association with UCC, I think it is only fair to acknowledge that he has been the only soul in the public sphere to carry a torch for public health so far.
...

Yes, I heard him on the 9 news on saturday and I agreed with him that the scientific basis for all the talk going around was non-existent. It wearies me when the political and sensationalist guff drowns out the science and engineering at the heart of these matters, both the cause and the solution.

So he's downplaying the risks? Well that would fit...(my computer won't let me listen/here the RTE links above). Which aspect of the fact that pcbs are highly poisonous has not been scientifically proven? Are the WHO scientists, the FDA and countless others wrong too? Or are you saying something different 905?

No, he's saying the risks of this particular food safety incident have not been properly quantified / evaluated.

So, he is actually challenging those who are downplaying the risks to demonstrate the level of risk in a scientific manner.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

No, he's saying the risks of this particular food safety incident have not been properly quantified / evaluated.

So, he is actually challenging those who are downplaying the risks to demonstrate the level of risk in a scientific manner.

Yes, and I see on the place-that-must-not-be-named that he has not been included on the government's crisis risk assessment panel either, though he is the country's most eminent expert on the relevant science.

Independent.ie

Quote :

Last night, Breeo Foods -- the Dairygold spin-off that controls the pork brands Galtee, Shaws, Roscrea and Barcastle -- confirmed that it has begun to source safe traceable pork meat from EU countries outside of Ireland.

It said its new supply arrangements mean it will be in a position to continue supplying the Irish market with its Galtee, Shaws, Roscrea and Barcastle brands using safe, traceable Continental pork meat sourced mainly from approved suppliers in the UK, Germany and Denmark. The firm said that it will be packing its popular brands with EU-approved pork meat and will ramp up the operation to be in a position to have all its Galtee, Shaws, Roscrea and Barcastle brands available in shops later this week.

Interesting, because I heard that some of these brands use very little if any of Irish grown pork. If this is true, why were all these brands pulled ? Has there been a significant PR damage control exercise mixed up in all this ?

Response in the UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/dec/08/foodsafety-ireland

Aragon wrote:

Response in the UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/dec/08/foodsafety-ireland

That article seems to testify to the fact that nobody has a bogs notion where their meat comes from. Traceability my butt.
Except for Superquinn perhaps, whom I have heard operate their own procedures as they regard the various Department's procedures as shite.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Aragon wrote:

Response in the UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/dec/08/foodsafety-ireland

That article seems to testify to the fact that nobody has a bogs notion where their meat comes from. Traceability my butt.
Except for Superquinn perhaps, whom I have heard operate their own procedures as they regard the various Department's procedures as shite.

Apparently there are only 7 inspectors employed at the Food Safety Authority. It can only be impossible to apply/maintain standards in the circumstances. That's a minimum of three entire counties each!!!!

Their website: http://www.fsai.ie/

850 workers laid off this morning

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1208/pork.html