Zhou_Enlai wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:

I do hope that Dacid C takes the time to respond to the above

There is no reason to think that David C has any knowledge of the owners of Libertas or of their history. There is also no reason to think that he is conerned about his reputation being damaged by his being associated with Libertas. In the circumstances, there seems little point in addressing him on these points. However, if you do want to have a barney with him then why not address him and have the Barney on his website. We all know the general content of the stock reponses are at this stage ("you are biased - you are wanker - you can't handle Libertas being against Lisbon - it's all smoke and daggers - it's all smear tactics - it's all baseless - RTE have an agenda - the Irish Times are biased - Libertas stand for lots of good stuff - why can't you stick to the issues - Albania-shmalbania - nobody has accused Ganley of wrongdoing or provided any evidence of wrongdoing - what exactly is your allegation? - who cares who pays my wages? - it was a loan - SIPO have an agenda - the leak came from SIPO - the money was just resting in my account [ joke - Fr. Ted reference - please don't sue] - I was only doing Libertas stuff in my spare time etc etc"). There is hardly any point in cluttering up this thread with them.

You could sell it by the roll as wallpaper

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

What ? An AI troll ?

Great idea EVM. As far as I can tell the trollier the better as far as some boards viewer are concerned. A few AI trolls in an AI bloodbath would pull in the punters like McWilliams to a macro-economics fashion shoot. Google-ads would be all over you with the contracts. And who are they going to sue, a bot? Dragons Den as gaeilge here we come!

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

What ? An AI troll ?

Great idea EVM. As far as I can tell the trollier the better as far as some boards viewer are concerned. A few AI trolls in an AI bloodbath would pull in the punters like McWilliams to a macro-economics fashion shoot. Google-ads would be all over you with the contracts. And who are they going to sue, a bot? Dragons Den as gaeilge here we come!

We do have the hidden Holding Pen here, in which posters can slug it out behind closed doors if they want to - our very own little Fight Club.

Writing a trolling programme EVM - would that pose many difficulties ?

cactus flower wrote:

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

What ? An AI troll ?

Great idea EVM. As far as I can tell the trollier the better as far as some boards viewer are concerned. A few AI trolls in an AI bloodbath would pull in the punters like McWilliams to a macro-economics fashion shoot. Google-ads would be all over you with the contracts. And who are they going to sue, a bot? Dragons Den as gaeilge here we come!

We do have the hidden Holding Pen here, in which posters can slug it out behind closed doors if they want to - our very own little Fight Club.

Writing a trolling programme EVM - would that pose many difficulties ?

Not a bit! Who do you want destroyed?

cactus flower wrote:

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

What ? An AI troll ?

Great idea EVM. As far as I can tell the trollier the better as far as some boards viewer are concerned. A few AI trolls in an AI bloodbath would pull in the punters like McWilliams to a macro-economics fashion shoot. Google-ads would be all over you with the contracts. And who are they going to sue, a bot? Dragons Den as gaeilge here we come!

We do have the hidden Holding Pen here, in which posters can slug it out behind closed doors if they want to - our very own little Fight Club.

Writing a trolling programme EVM - would that pose many difficulties ?

Ehhhh .. not for ibis, no.

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

Frightened Albanian wrote:

I do hope that Dacid C takes the time to respond to the above

There is no reason to think that David C has any knowledge of the owners of Libertas or of their history. There is also no reason to think that he is conerned about his reputation being damaged by his being associated with Libertas. In the circumstances, there seems little point in addressing him on these points. However, if you do want to have a barney with him then why not address him and have the Barney on his website. We all know the general content of the stock reponses are at this stage ("you are biased - you are wanker - you can't handle Libertas being against Lisbon - it's all smoke and daggers - it's all smear tactics - it's all baseless - RTE have an agenda - the Irish Times are biased - Libertas stand for lots of good stuff - why can't you stick to the issues - Albania-shmalbania - nobody has accused Ganley of wrongdoing or provided any evidence of wrongdoing - what exactly is your allegation? - who cares who pays my wages? - it was a loan - SIPO have an agenda - the leak came from SIPO - the money was just resting in my account [ joke - Fr. Ted reference - please don't sue] - I was only doing Libertas stuff in my spare time etc etc"). There is hardly any point in cluttering up this thread with them.

David C posted on this website so I addressed him here!!! and he is being hostile to an
intelligent and level header poster here Cactus Flower. The point of my post is that these young people should know who they are in bed with they agressively defend someone them claim to know next to nothing about. Wikipedia has been more a more informative digest of Ganleyland than most Irish press UNTIL the last few weeks.

The thread is about Ganley and Primetime and the Albanian and Russian angles feature. I care a lot less about Europe/Lisbon than I do about a man with his assets , a bothersome past and nasty politics getting a foothold here or in Europe. I am still Against the War, Against Greed and Against Strikebreakers. The sums mentioned re Bertie and the Mahon are peanuts compared to the neo con cash and the Albanian £220,000, 000 etc.

There is now a line in the sand with Ganley. The ability in recession to achieve power by playing on peoples's fear and promoting xenophobia is something covered in leaving cert history class. It starts with the Wall St; crash and the Weimer republic.

The disillusionment with our politians should not be allowed to let this type of guy get a foothold anywhere.

Well this time they won't have it so easy so if you don't like discussing Ganley on a Ganley thread , discuss something else elsewhere
.

I agree that one of the reasons that Ganley is important is because it is a dangerous time in Europe's history. Any new political forces must be scrutinised carefully.

All I was saying is that seeking to engage with DavidC or Cookiemonster is pointless. I would have thought that would have been obvious by now. I also suspect that outside people who populate message boards DavidC and CM are viewed as total nobodies in the Libertas/Rivada (Ir.) pecking order. DavidC has been candid enough that they don't have the answers so what is the point in hounding them as if they were Garrett FitzGerald working for Darth-Vader. Asking them questions as if they had a rats ass about anything makes the person asking the question look foolish imho.

I saw CM's false accusations and attacks on CF on the other site. CF is well abel to defend herself and made minced meat of CM (even if I don't agree with the "proto-facist" analysis).

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

I agree that one of the reasons that Ganley is important is because it is a dangerous time in Europe's history. Any new political forces must be scrutinised carefully.

All I was saying is that seeking to engage with DavidC or Cookiemonster is pointless. I would have thought that would have been obvious by now. I also suspect that outside people who populate message boards DavidC and CM are viewed as total nobodies in the Libertas/Rivada (Ir.) pecking order. DavidC has been candid enough that they don't have the answers so what is the point in hounding them as if they were Garrett FitzGerald working for Darth-Vader. Asking them questions as if they had a rats ass about anything makes the person asking the question look foolish imho.

I saw CM's false accusations and attacks on CF on the other site. CF is well abel to defend herself and made minced meat of CM (even if I don't agree with the "proto-facist" analysis).

Sure but better to put the questions , I trust CF can handle herself as she has but lets not let bullies bully. The proto fascist angle may be incorrect but is the closest historical model I can find. This is something new but not taht different I suspect. Ganleyist? perhaps Libertasist?
When we define what Libertas stand for and/or what Ganley really wants we might be able to decide .

Just to refresh ye all of the rules - no rabbit punching, no biting, kicking or kidney punches, no hitting below the EVERLAST emblem:



Libertas, welcome dynamic in Irish and European Politics or dangerous opaque and personality driven organisation?

Much has been said of Libertas on this website over the past number of weeks. It is our intention that debate should be open and free and that all issues are welcome to be addressed. However, as per the Machine Nation Charter:

1. All persons (members and non members) are entitled to their good name save for explicit evidence to the contrary.
   
2. In the course of debate and discussion members must at all times treat each other with the respect that they would expect to be shown towards themselves. The membership of this forum includes those involved with and those supporting Libertas - we welcome their contributions as we do the contributions from supporters of any group. Name calling, personalised attacks or attempts to belittle other members are not in the spirit of this site and will not be tolerated.
   
3. In discussing controversial issues, strict rules of engagement apply. If you believe you have discovered information which you feel should be brought to light you should do so in a clear and concise manner, citing reasonable sources and explaining their relevance to the point you are making.
   

It is the desire of Machine Nation to promote self and communal moderation insofar as possible. However, posting in breach of the above guidelines, or any aspect of the Charter (available here) is liable to be dealt with unilaterally by the content team. In such circumstances your posting be replaced by the words "Hidden Message", your own message being hidden from public view. If you have a comment to make on the action the correct course is to click the ! button, reporting the post, and citing the reasons for your submission.

Given that we do not have eyes and ears on the website around the clock it is possible that the thread will be locked during night hours, particularly if controversial issues are being discussed.

Beyond that, let us get down to business discussing one of the most interesting, controversial, arguably dynamic and welcome, arguably dangerous and divisive, developments in Irish politics in recent years.

------

Mods statement.

-----

Thank you for the clear rules and regulations, and for offering a 'neutral zone' in which to discuss Libertas.

Anticoalition wrote:

Thank you for the clear rules and regulations, and for offering a 'neutral zone' in which to discuss Libertas.

There is a cup of tea for you in the signing in thread, Anticoalition, whenever you're ready.

Anticoalition wrote:

Thank you for the clear rules and regulations, and for offering a 'neutral zone' in which to discuss Libertas.

Yes... Rules courtesy of Mr. johnfás who takes no prisoners.

You're welcome here to MN.

Those rules are very good and should be the basis of a proper discussion here on Machine Nation about Libertas with all the excessive and inaccurate language from many quarters.

Thank you all for the very kind welcome, and I have to say I would love a cup of tae!

I'll have a read of the rules again, and do my best to behave myself, which I think should be quite a bit easier here, than in certain other quarters.

Anyway, I was just remarking about the slight similarity between Bill Clinton's charity divulging all his donors, engaging in full disclosure and promising not to take donations from foreign powers, now that Hillary got the big promotion - and the transition of Libertas from lobby group or whatever it was to political party. Regardless of how proper they may be internally, they have handled it all very badly, even from a PR point of view. Surely all this scrutiny was easily predictable and all the controversy avoidable? It's like they are blaming everyone but themselves for their own internal decisions and mistakes in running their organisation.

Anticoalition wrote:

Thank you all for the very kind welcome, and I have to say I would love a cup of tae!

I'll have a read of the rules again, and do my best to behave myself, which I think should be quite a bit easier here, than in certain other quarters.

Anyway, I was just remarking about the slight similarity between Bill Clinton's charity divulging all his donors, engaging in full disclosure and promising not to take donations from foreign powers, now that Hillary got the big promotion - and the transition of Libertas from lobby group of whatever it was to political party. Regardless of how proper they may be internally, they have handled it all very badly, even from a PR point of view. Surely, this all this scrutiny was easily predictable and all the controversy avoidable? It's like they are blaming everyone but themselves for their own internal decisions and mistakes in running their organisation.

Those who donated to Libertas with amounts under the disclosure threshold did so on the understanding that their names would not be revealed. Libertas is guardian of those names and it would be wholly inappropriate for them to reveal the names of those who donated because of some pressure of the organisations detractors. I do not view their refusal to take this stance as a mistake of any kind. If donors wish to reveal their own names that's up to them.

Make that a pot of tea please

cookiemonster wrote:

Anticoalition wrote:

Thank you all for the very kind welcome, and I have to say I would love a cup of tae!

I'll have a read of the rules again, and do my best to behave myself, which I think should be quite a bit easier here, than in certain other quarters.

Anyway, I was just remarking about the slight similarity between Bill Clinton's charity divulging all his donors, engaging in full disclosure and promising not to take donations from foreign powers, now that Hillary got the big promotion - and the transition of Libertas from lobby group of whatever it was to political party. Regardless of how proper they may be internally, they have handled it all very badly, even from a PR point of view. Surely, this all this scrutiny was easily predictable and all the controversy avoidable? It's like they are blaming everyone but themselves for their own internal decisions and mistakes in running their organisation.

Those who donated to Libertas with amounts under the disclosure threshold did so on the understanding that their names would not be revealed. Libertas is guardian of those names and it would be wholly inappropriate for them to reveal the names of those who donated because of some pressure of the organisations detractors. I do not view their refusal to take this stance as a mistake of any kind. If donors wish to reveal their own names that's up to them.

I have to agree with Cookie on that. Those who donated under the disclosure threshold - which is, let's face it, only €126.97 - are entitled to expect the privacy that legally obtained when they made their donations. A change in the law might enforce disclosure, but Libertas have no real rights to do it, any more than Dunnes stores have to publish your weekly shopping bill.

I agree too, but €127 is crap. What's the limit for a pol. par ? Libertas are still a private association? so what's invoking the limit. Is it a tax thing ?

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

I agree too, but €127 is crap. What's the limit for a pol. par ? Libertas are still a private association? so what's invoking the limit. Is it a tax thing ?

SIPO, and it's the same rule for everyone. The people probably making most out of sub-threshold donations are the political parties, not Libertas.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

I agree too, but €127 is crap. What's the limit for a pol. par ? Libertas are still a private association? so what's invoking the limit. Is it a tax thing ?

Quote :

(1) "Third Parties"

An individual or group (other than a registered political party or election candidate) who or which accepts, in a particular calendar year, a donation exceeding in value €126.97 is required to register as a "third party" with the Standards Commission

http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/QuickLinks/ThirdParties/

Anticoalition wrote:

Thank you all for the very kind welcome, and I have to say I would love a cup of tae!

I'll have a read of the rules again, and do my best to behave myself, which I think should be quite a bit easier here, than in certain other quarters.

Anyway, I was just remarking about the slight similarity between Bill Clinton's charity divulging all his donors, engaging in full disclosure and promising not to take donations from foreign powers, now that Hillary got the big promotion - and the transition of Libertas from lobby group of whatever it was to political party. Regardless of how proper they may be internally, they have handled it all very badly, even from a PR point of view. Surely, this all this scrutiny was easily predictable and all the controversy avoidable? It's like they are blaming everyone but themselves for their own internal decisions and mistakes in running their organisation.

Mistake ve don't make mistakes!!
Don't be too sure that the master plan is unravelling just yet. Cliton is a bit of a leap from Gnaley. However I wonder does Joe Biden and Barak Obama know who exactly benefited from their Foreign relations Senate committee letter of support for the Forum on Public Safety in Europe and North America conference held in Limerick http://www.forumonpublicsafety.com/ Write to Joe and tell him to watch Primetime.




I love the above image , I see a jet bomber, NY cop , a mountie, another cop, a guy on a pylon, the American and European Flags blending in the centre, and a small gun boat, anda jet bomber and top right some kind of paramilitary guy.

This is a Rivada Networks Univercity of Limerick conference and yet another "think tank" running from Tuam, yes you guessed it like Libertas it is another of Ganley's brainchidren.
You can read more o the link. I have seen the beautifully bound and boxed books they print aftre the conferences.
Here are some iof the fans and participants.


Admiral Timothy J. Keating, Head of United States Pacific Command


. "I walked away knowing that my organization
and I have committed partners in our efforts to protect our citizenry."

COL Ronnie D. Johnson, Commander, 256 Infantry Brigade, Louisiana Army National Guar


“The
Forum on Public Safety is now established as an important and
authoritative point of contact and debate between key figures in the
transatlantic security policy context. Its sessions are as informative
as they are enjoyable.”

Admiral James M. Loy, Former US Deputy Secretary for Homeland Security

Commander Alfred Hitchcock, London Metropolitan Police Servic
"
LT General Dennis McCarthy (Ret.), US Marine Force Reserve
Executive Director, Reserve Officers Association

LT Colonel Joseph F. Booth, Louisiana State Police
Kevin O’Connell, Deputy Director of Europol, the European Police Office

RADM, Robert F. Duncan, Commander of US Eight Coast Guard District

David Berman, Senior Policy Analyst, National Center for Disaster Preparedness, Columbia University

So this is your homework exercise for tonight!! This is Libertas's half brother/sister, connecting the dots can be great fun.

Naoise Nunn was first employed to work on this by Rivada Networks. Naoise Nunn, Forum Coordinator +353 86 276 1256 / nnunn@rivada.com
Moyne Park, Tuam, Co. Galway, Ireland.

Libertas and the Us military not connected?? The debate begins

Note the conference title its not all communications you know. countering radicalism is also dealt with. Enjoy!

Oh, well then presumably this only applies under Part 5 of the Electoral Act and the 60 day rule therein?

Yet still, I didn't think the Electoral Act applied to non polpar groups in a referendum.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Oh, well then presumably this only applies under Part 5 of the Electoral Act and the 60 day rule therein?

Yet still, I didn't think the Electoral Act applied to non polpar groups in a referendum.

If they're third parties, I presume.

Frightened Albanian wrote:

Mistake ve don't make mistakes!!
Don't be too sure that the master plan is unravelling just yet. Cliton is a bit of a leap from Gnaley. However I wonder does Joe Biden and Barak Obama know who exactly benefited from their Foreign relations Senate committee letter of support for the Forum on Public Safety in Europe and North America conference held in Limerick http://www.forumonpublicsafety.com/ Write to Joe and tell him to watch Primetime.




I love the above image , I see a jet bomber, NY cop , a mountie, another cop, a guy on a pylon, the American and European Flags blending in the centre, and a small gun boat, anda jet bomber and top right some kind of paramilitary guy.

This is a Rivada Networks Univercity of Limerick conference and yet another "think tank" running from Tuam, yes you guessed it like Libertas it is another of Ganley's brainchidren.
You can read more o the link. I have seen the beautifully bound and boxed books they print aftre the conferences.
Here are some iof the fans and participants...

Here we go again. It was a forum, not a think tank.

It's even called Forum on Public Safety. As for it's Focus is is, as the name suggests, about public safety, which involves more than just commuincations. Hence people like Hitchcock being there and so on.

I meant to add this above note the bold. It's a hustle man! No 5

http://cnbceb.com/people-profiles/declan-ganley/421/4/

A MOGUL MANUAL
THE 10 ENTREPRENEURIAL RULES OF DECLAN GANLEY

1. Invest heavily in pre-start-up research and diligence
   of potential entrepreneurial opportunities rather
   than trying to plug holes and gaps after the fact.
   
2. As an entrepreneur, attempt to surround yourself with a
   management team of people who are smarter than you are.
   
3. Making big money is the by-product of passion for something
   else, it is rarely the result of merely wanting to make money.
   
4. The laws of political astuteness and patronage: make
   friends in high places, and influence people; don’t
   be afraid to tackle academics and politicians alike.
   
5. Make the market: if no one believes in your idea, organise
   a conference to construct the debate your product needs.
   
6. There is no limit to the value of lateral thinking in an entrepreneurial situation
   
7. Don’t forget who you are (or who you’d like to project
   yourself as). In this case Irish identity is Ganley’s
   heartfelt USP and has helped him in the States.
   
8. Lead from the front, as Ganley did in New Orleans,
   and never forget that your team is watching.
   
9. It is possible to have several different businesses on the
   go at once but don’t forget that you’ll be working 24/7
   to achieve your objectives, and some of them will fail.
   
10. Don’t neglect your principles. Ganley is firmly of the
    belief that honour and integrity precede money making
    – spoken like a true military man with Catholic underpinnings.