The Swiss are worried that the full impact of this recession is starting to bite. Unemployment has risen to 3% and many fear that it will rise to an apocalyptic 4.5% before the year is out. Grim times ahead.

Slim Buddha wrote:

The Swiss are worried that the full impact of this recession is starting to bite. Unemployment has risen to 3% and many fear that it will rise to an apocalyptic 4.5% before the year is out. Grim times ahead.

Are you taking the Mick

Unemployment is low enough in Nordic countries too it seems. I'd wonder how much unemployment can be tolerated before the IMF start getting discussed. We had a lot more in the 80s but the IMF didn't come. Have we much lower taxes now and that's the reason - less money ?

I believe Argentina somehow tolerate a high unemployment figure - something I read in Stiglitz book. About 15% I think. It's not a problem if they can manage with that. It'd be interesting to know why certain economies like those in warmer places can tolerate high unemployment - Spain has 13% now according to the Eurostats Paul R put there recently.

It's all a balancing act between different juggling balls I suppose.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Slim Buddha wrote:

The Swiss are worried that the full impact of this recession is starting to bite. Unemployment has risen to 3% and many fear that it will rise to an apocalyptic 4.5% before the year is out. Grim times ahead.

Are you taking the Mick

Unemployment is low enough in Nordic countries too it seems. I'd wonder how much unemployment can be tolerated before the IMF start getting discussed. We had a lot more in the 80s but the IMF didn't come. Have we much lower taxes now and that's the reason - less money ?

I believe Argentina somehow tolerate a high unemployment figure - something I read in Stiglitz book. About 15% I think. It's not a problem if they can manage with that. It'd be interesting to know why certain economies like those in warmer places can tolerate high unemployment - Spain has 13% now according to the Eurostats Paul R put there recently.

It's all a balancing act between different juggling balls I suppose.

Right, I do admit it was a bit tongue in cheek. But that is how they think. Since everything here is done at local rather than federal level, the emphasis in tough times is to manage the problem locally. SO if you get laid off and get some sort of a redundancy package from your employer and you fancied starting up a business, these people advise you every step of the way

http://www.zug.ch/behoerden/volkswirtschaftsdirektion/economic-promotion/team-overview/team-und-aufgaben

and let you know about grants, taxes and legal obligations. They talk about quality of life and standard of living apart from the 8.5% corporation tax and 7.6% VAT

http://www.leconcierge.ch/Zug%20Promotion%202005.pdf.

They are with you every step of the way on setting up a business and supporting you practically in every way possible. They are very successful. I know of a number of people who have set up businesses in Zug as a result of being highly impressed with this service. This is what keeps unemployment down.

From your first link. Could it be there is a disproportionate number of techies in Admin in Switzerland?



What kinds of businesses generally get set up could you say ? You could give a few examples or even keep an eye out for the kind of thing people get up there instead of heading off down to Gardiner Street.

Auditor #9 wrote:

From your first link. Could it be there is a disproportionate number of techies in Admin in Switzerland?



What kinds of businesses generally get set up could you say ? You could give a few examples or even keep an eye out for the kind of thing people get up there instead of heading off down to Gardiner Street.

Yes Audi, Herr Marti is highly respected as an advisor to small and start-up businesses. His background in precision tooling and small business and his extensive experience and that of his team in start-ups, coupled with the advantages Canton Zug offers in grants and taxes, has made Zug very successful and very unpopular in Germany. Zug has 8,400 businesses, 23,000 companies and 66,000 employees in total. I will keep an eye on Zug as 2009 wears on to see how it manages employment-wise.

Slim Buddha wrote:

Yes Audi, Herr Marti is highly respected as an advisor to small and start-up businesses. His background in precision tooling and small business and his extensive experience and that of his team in start-ups, coupled with the advantages Canton Zug offers in grants and taxes, has made Zug very successful and very unpopular in Germany. Zug has 8,400 businesses, 23,000 companies and 66,000 employees in total. I will keep an eye on Zug as 2009 wears on to see how it manages employment-wise.

Why is that - because highly qualified people go there to stay ?

There's Zug there very close to the middle.

Quote :

Der Kanton Zug liegt mitten in Europa und im Herzen der Schweiz. Er gilt als Scharnier zwischen dem urbanen Kanton Zürich und den ländlichen Kantonen der Zentralschweiz.

Landschaftlich ist der Kanton Zug geprägt von zwei malerischen Seen, von sanften Hügeln und von reizvollen Voralpen. Dank einer ausgezeichneten Infrastruktur für den öffentlichen und privaten Verkehr sind die Zentren Zürich und Luzern in weniger als dreissig Minuten erreichbar.

Corporation tax, Audi. Look at the maths. 8,400 business, 66,000 employees and 23,000 companies. One of these companies is Metro Ag. This is the biggest food wholesaler in Europe. Operationally it is based in Germany. However, the tax it paid on the €83,000,000,000 turnover recorder in 2006 was paid in Canton Zug, where it is incorporated. Metro are not alone, while is why Peer Steinbruck, the German Finance Minister, has a habit of throwing his toys out of the pram when he hears the words "Kanton Zug".

Slim Buddha wrote:

Corporation tax, Audi. Look at the maths. 8,400 business, 66,000 employees and 23,000 companies. One of these companies is Metro Ag. This is the biggest food wholesaler in Europe. Operationally it is based in Germany. However, the tax it paid on the €83,000,000,000 turnover recorder in 2006 was paid in Canton Zug, where it is incorporated. Metro are not alone, while is why Peer Steinbruck, the German Finance Minister, has a habit of throwing his toys out of the pram when he hears the words "Kanton Zug".

Ah Right - same as why Germany is annoyed by us. And each Kanton can vote on what tax a corpo pays ? I wonder can you tell me what that rate is and whether it is voted to change often or now and again or at all. I can imagine peculiar dynamics existing between corporation, state, voter...

I know this looks like it should be a specific Switzerland thread but as it's a specific case of the general theme of economics and unemployment I think it might be counter-productive at present to split it.

For example, the unemployment rate is often very inaccurately measured. My two American fellas below reckon the American official rate of 7.2% might be very conservative of a real estimate of at least 13% when all the U3s and U6s and Shadow Stats are taken into account. Do you believe the Swiss when they tell that the unemployment rate has rocketted up to 4.5% ?

VisionVictory - On recent employment figures among other things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GNe19ru0F0

DEMCAD - On recent employment and other stats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zC42Oo1F2I

Auditor #9 wrote:

Slim Buddha wrote:

Corporation tax, Audi. Look at the maths. 8,400 business, 66,000 employees and 23,000 companies. One of these companies is Metro Ag. This is the biggest food wholesaler in Europe. Operationally it is based in Germany. However, the tax it paid on the €83,000,000,000 turnover recorder in 2006 was paid in Canton Zug, where it is incorporated. Metro are not alone, while is why Peer Steinbruck, the German Finance Minister, has a habit of throwing his toys out of the pram when he hears the words "Kanton Zug".

Ah Right - same as why Germany is annoyed by us. And each Kanton can vote on what tax a corpo pays ? I wonder can you tell me what that rate is and whether it is voted to change often or now and again or at all. I can imagine peculiar dynamics existing between corporation, state, voter...

I know this looks like it should be a specific Switzerland thread but as it's a specific case of the general theme of economics and unemployment I think it might be counter-productive at present to split it.

For example, the unemployment rate is often very inaccurately measured. My two American fellas below reckon the American official rate of 7.2% might be very conservative of a real estimate of at least 13% when all the U3s and U6s and Shadow Stats are taken into account. Do you believe the Swiss when they tell that the unemployment rate has rocketted up to 4.5% ?

VisionVictory - On recent employment figures among other things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GNe19ru0F0

DEMCAD - On recent employment and other stats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zC42Oo1F2I

Rates of corporation tax vary from canton to canton. There is a minimum figure of 8%. That goes, as per an article in the Swiss constitution, to the federal government. Anything beyond that is a matter for the canton itself to decide. The federal government cannot interfere with the power of the canton to decide this. The federal government never does because it relies on the cantons to collect this and pass it on to the federal government. (This is very much in keeping with the "Don't piss off the cantons" system of administration here.) In Canton Zug, they levy a corporation tax of 0.5% making a total corporation tax liability for companies based there of 8.5%. In Zurich, the corporation tax levied by the canton is 3% bringing the total to 11%. Each canton has its own rate, though the French-speaking cantons charge more as a rule.

Just checked in the Sunday papers, Audi, and Günther Netzer's company is advertising jobs available. He is into sports management but has a lot of other business interests also. You may never have heard of Günther Netzer but the guy is a legend. He was one of the most flamboyant German footballers of the 70s who played in the team that won the European Nations Cup in 1972. He played his club football for Borussia Mönchengladbach and Real Madrid. A total individualist, his high point in club football came when he decided to transfer to Real Madrid. His manager refused to play him again and kept him on the subs bench for every match until the end of the 72-73 season, never playing him. The very last game of the season for Borussia Mönchengladbach was the famous 1973 German Cup final against Cologne. It was 1-1 after 90 minutes and Netzer got pissed off and substituted himself without the manager's permission. After 2 minutes, he scored the winner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNbBnNVyenw

After a successful spell with Real Madrid, he retired to become commercial manager of Hamburg. Hamburg were floundering near the bottom of the Bundesliga when he arrived. He organised the commercial side so well that they signed European footballer of the Year Kevin Keegan and won 3 German titles and made it to 2 European Champions Cup finals, winning one in 1983 beating Juventus 1-0.

He left football to go into business. In 2003, the Kirch media group which owned SAT 1 among other TV channels went bankrupt. Netzer secured from the liquidation the rights for TV for the World Cup 2006 and realised a profit of € 850 million from selling these rights. He is a hugely successful businessman and lives with his family in Kanton Zug.

While he played football, he owned a string of bars but never drank alcohol until he finished his active football career. He had a Ferrari parked outside his bar in Hamburg but had no driving licence. He was always caught on camera with beautiful German models but has been married to the same woman since he was 22. The guy is a one off.

No surprise that in the teeth of a monster recession, he is still hiring staff.

The Ego has landed eh ? Does it always fall on very strong individuals to facilitate important socio-economic changes and drive innovation and industries that spread out into the wider community ?

In Switzerland in fairness there seems to be a vibrant culture of broader communities wielding power and using it responsibly. Job creation and industrial expansion and growth is usually down to individuals though, isn't it ? Unless you've Swiss examples or others (I think Pax had a Parecon one) of communities building industries that have a wider effect too. By their nature I suppose the likes of CO-OPs aren't meant to dominate the planet as they are local.

Auditor #9 wrote:

The Ego has landed eh ? Does it always fall on very strong individuals to facilitate important socio-economic changes and drive innovation and industries that spread out into the wider community ?

In Switzerland in fairness there seems to be a vibrant culture of broader communities wielding power and using it responsibly. Job creation and industrial expansion and growth is usually down to individuals though, isn't it ? Unless you've Swiss examples or others (I think Pax had a Parecon one) of communities building industries that have a wider effect too. By their nature I suppose the likes of CO-OPs aren't meant to dominate the planet as they are local.

I suppose the best example of local success in Switzerland is, on the one hand, the cantonal banks, which operate solely in their own geographic space and on the other, the localised watchmaking industry, which went into decline and was saved, in a manner of speaking, by the success of Swatch.

The cantonal banks cannot get into the derivatives that caused so much toxic debt in recent times and are more "traditional" banks for local communities. The now have competition from the Co-op Bank and Migros Bank which are relatively new and both of these come out of large supermarket chains. The Swiss are not warming to these as they tend to believe that a supermarket is a supermarket and a bank is a bank. A lot of those who terminated accounts with UBS in the last 6 months moved to the cantonal banks for 2 main reasons. "Safe" and local".

The watchmaking industry was on its uppers and the establishment of the Federation of the Swiss Watchmaking Industry in 1982 halted the decline. There are 500 companies in the Federation. The industry is located in an arc from Geneva to Basel and most of the members are located in the French-speaking cantons of Geneva, Vaud, Neuchatel and Jura, particularly the last two. Cantons Fribourg, Solothurn and Schaffhausen also have watchmakers, incluiding Swatch.

The watchmaking industry is very skill-specific, family-orientated and had been a small employer. Swatch changed that and was one of the prime movers in establishing the federation. Nowadays, the companies in villages in Neuchatel and Jura are thriving again and are employing graduates of the Centre de perfectionnement Horologer in Neuchatel. It used to be a closed shop. Mind you, they do still like to empoloy locals but then, locals probably appreciate the industry as part of the fabric of their community. But lots more people are working in the industry, which is thriving, and a lot of the success of this is down to Swatch.

However, Swatch is very much the story of one man, a dominant type of guy called Nicolas Hayek. So, maybe these alpha male businessmen do have their uses.

3 minute PressTV news report from France showing unemployment at 2 million and 64,000 going on the French dole in November - largest rise in unemployment in 15 years.

26 billion euro stimulus from Sarkozy government as well as government cuts are hoped to stimulate private business.

Car industry hit hardest - agriculture also affected.

20.6% rise in unemployment among young males compared to last year.

OECD predicts rise to 8.2% unemployment this year.