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Do you know anything about a fella called Fiach MacHugh O'Byrne in relation to irish?

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Auditor #9 wrote:: Ibis Can you really read Norwegian ?? And greek? (ancient?)

Norwegian is easy enough if you have a passing familiarity with Old/Middle English, and any dialect Doric.

My Greek is, admittedly, very rusty at this stage. I did it at school, along with Latin, and still have a Greek dictionary within arm's reach.

riadach wrote:: However, what about cultural awareness. You are familiar with Irish
history, never wanted to read the original Irish romances in their
original language?

Not sufficiently, I think is the best answer. Irish is something I would have to learn from scratch, because it's in a different branch from the two main classes I'm comfortable in (Romance and Anglic).

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Auditor #9 wrote:: Do you know anything about a fella called Fiach MacHugh O'Byrne in relation to irish?

Myself? Feach Mac Aodha Ó Broin? Wasn't he an Irish warlord in the wicklow mountains around the time of Elizabeth II and Seaghan an Diomas Ó Néill. Much of our information may rely on English sources as leinster annals are non-extent for this time period. Try ucc.ie/celt and look up annála ríochta éireann for individual references in Irish sources.

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ibis wrote:: Not sufficiently, I think is the best answer. Irish is something I would have to learn from scratch, because it's in a different branch from the two main classes I'm comfortable in (Romance and Anglic).

Which of course you are comfortable in, because English straddles both. Ah, sure there's no linguistic awareness in that Wink

. Why not try learning to speak a language (and you admitted your greek was weak), with different syntax and different vocab origins to the ones you are familiar with. You hardly seem like someone who would turn down an intellectual challenge :-). I'm not sure how I'd feel, if I thought Des Bishop excelled me in something.

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Auditor #9 wrote:: Do you know anything about a fella called Fiach MacHugh O'Byrne in relation to irish?

Have you just heard the song 'Follow me up to Carlow?"

Follow Me Up To Carlow

Lift MacCahir Óg your face,
Brooding o’er the old disgrace,
Black Fitzwilliam stormed your place
And drove you to the fern.
Grey said victory was sure,
Soon the firebrand he’d secure;
Until he met at Glenmalure
Fiach MacHugh O Byrne.

CHORUS:
Curse and swear Lord Kildare,
Fiach will do what Fiach will dare,
Now Fitzwilliam, have a care,
Fallen is your star, low.
Up with halberd, out with sword,
On we go for by the Lord,
Fiach Mac Hugh has given his word,
Follow me up to Carlow.

See the words of Glen Imayle,
Flashing o’er the English Pale,
See all the children of the Gael
Beneath O’Byrne’s banners.
Rooster of the fighting stock,
Would you let a Saxon cock,
Crow out upon an Irish rock?
Fly up and teach him manners!

CHORUS

From Tassagart to Clonmore,
There flows a stream of Saxon gore,
Och, great is Rory Óg O’More,
At sending loons to Hades.
White is sick and Grey is dead
Now for black Fitzwilliam’s head,
We’ll send it over, dripping red,
To Liza and her ladies.

As Christy Moore says in his songbook - They just don't write them like this anymore

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riadach wrote:

ibis wrote:: Not sufficiently, I think is the best answer. Irish is something I would have to learn from scratch, because it's in a different branch from the two main classes I'm comfortable in (Romance and Anglic).

Which of course you are comfortable in, because English straddles both. Ah, sure there's no linguistic awareness in that Wink

. Why not try learning to speak a language (and you admitted your greek was weak), with different syntax and different vocab origins to the ones you are familiar with. You hardly seem like someone who would turn down an intellectual challenge :-)

...as a result of which I have quite enough intellectual challenges to occupy me on a day to day basis without learning Irish!

Both Greek and non-English Anglic languages certainly do contain different world-views from English, although, yes, if anything gave me the urge to learn Irish, it is the very different worldview contained in the construction of the language, only some of which comes through in Hibernian English. For that reason, I have a great fondness for literal translations.

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riadach wrote:

ibis wrote:: Not sufficiently, I think is the best answer. Irish is something I would have to learn from scratch, because it's in a different branch from the two main classes I'm comfortable in (Romance and Anglic).

Which of course you are comfortable in, because English straddles both. Ah, sure there's no linguistic awareness in that Wink

. Why not try learning to speak a language (and you admitted your greek was weak), with different syntax and different vocab origins to the ones you are familiar with. You hardly seem like someone who would turn down an intellectual challenge :-). I'm not sure how I'd feel, if I thought Des Bishop excelled me in something.

Gentlemen, ye know damn all about the gentle art of seduction. Move over.

ibis,
a man of your great intelligence and natural linguistic will easily be able to integrate a couple of Irish phrases from time to time, ó am go chéile (o auwm gu kayla). You'll subtly mention that you agree with Seathrún - aontaím leat (I agree with you - ayn-teem lat) or that you disagree with Riadach - ní aontaím (nee ayn-teem) on a complex intellectual argument.

True it is - is fíor é (iss feer ay), that I lack the erudition of a man as cliste as yourself, but no doubt you will rise above my phonetic alphabet briste to engage with us and our shared heritage.

Already I'm looking forward to chatting to you, a chara (a corra - friend). We will all be more than sásta - happy, (sawsta) to hear your cúpla focail cliste.

Ceart go leor? ok (kyart gu lohr)

KP Wink

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ibis wrote:: ...as a result of which I have quite enough intellectual challenges to occupy me on a day to day basis without learning Irish!

Both Greek and non-English Anglic languages certainly do contain different world-views from English, although, yes, if anything gave me the urge to learn Irish, it is the very different worldview contained in the construction of the language, only some of which comes through in Hibernian English. For that reason, I have a great fondness for literal translations.

I'd be worried about the wishy-washyness (leimhe) of a world view. I prefer to see a world view in the metaphor and imagery used in the language, as well as in the poetry within the language, as opposed to the grammar or the syntax. However, if one has to rely on literal translations, one ends up not wholly understanding the piece, and not being able to appreciate the intricacies of metaphor as the same time.

Given that Irish has stayed out of the mainstream in regards to syntax, but also in regards to idiom and metaphor, I would think it could be considered much more unique and a much different 'world-view' that is to be found in the more mainstream romance and germanic languages.

As for greek, I'm not sure. Given that much of west-european thought and indeed literature (Irish to an extent) is based on ancient greek, I wouldn't know exactly if it conforms to the 'world-view' of other languages or not.