Nationalisation Watch / Govt. rethinking 3.5 billion bailout for the banks?

Lenihan is talking about Morgan Kelly's article on page 14 of IT. He said the theory of the 4 banks being considered instead of 6 on 29th Sept. 2008 was rubbish.

He said they were either considering
A) nationalising it then and guaranteeing the rest
B) guaranteeing them all as happened

Fascinating stuff from Lenihan:

1. Certain debts (sound like it includes bond holders) are not covered by the guarantee.
2. The nationalisation of Anglo does not change that. Govt only getting the shareholding.
3. The Morgan Kelly article is inaccurate. Lenihan says he did not go against the advice of officials in his department.
4. The Nationalisation bill has been in preparation for months.
5. Lenihan was never in the Galway tent and did not receive representations from bankers or developers in relation to the Guarantee.

Great performance by Lenihan on his feet dealing with the points as they arose. His compliments to Burton and Bruton sounded genuine.

Arthur Morgan mentioned corruption in the Dáil just earlier - he's got immunity I suppose though.

This debate is hot alright.

Anyone know the format of it and can write it down off the top of their head in 2 minutes ?

There's a Bill and there are 3 (?) amendments and there are a boatload of votes going on - what are they voting on - Time ????

Please help

TrackerMortgageIdiot

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

Fascinating stuff from Lenihan:

1. Certain debts (sound like it includes bond holders) are not covered by the guarantee.
2. The nationalisation of Anglo does not change that. Govt only getting the shareholding.
3. The Morgan Kelly article is inaccurate. Lenihan says he did not go against the advice of officials in his department.
4. The Nationalisation bill has been in preparation for months.
5. Lenihan was never in the Galway tent and did not receive representations from bankers or developers in relation to the Guarantee.

Great performance by Lenihan on his feet dealing with the points as they arose. His compliments to Burton and Bruton sounded genuine.

Or subordinate debts ??

No one's in there ever listening to Sinn Fein godhelpess and they the oldest party in the Dáil.

And they're fecking right that banks should be nationalised. Healthy ones of course.

Joan Burton herself is confused by motions.

She's talking about the recent phases of banking here and the success of the country and the legality of the actions of Sean Fitz - correct me if I'm wrong --- or at least the potential illegality of Contracts for Difference and what SeanF was upto himself as well as actions of auditors.

She's referring to the ISEQ as a casino.

Burton saying she was unsatisfied about response from Regulator on Quinn affair and so wrote to Lenihan. Neary gone now - was Lenihan listening to Burton ?

I don't know what a Contract for Difference is.

Burton saying what Sean Fitz did was FRAUD

Quote :

Burton saying what Sean Fitz did was FRAUD

Well, she said that in many other jurisdictions, what he did would fall under the definition of that five letter word.

Burton relating Art Morgan's earlier story about a constituent going to jail over a dog licence. Sean Fitz goes to the Bahamas for fecking around with 87 million.

Will Finian McGrath vote NO ? He's on now talking about some Amendment

"One law for rich one law for poor"

Amendment to section B ... something, brain breaking up ... Obama on Sky ..

Richard Bruton confused too - "High Court Inspector" "get to the bottom of this"

"destroyed shareholder prospects, employee prospects"

"we must have public accountablity"

edit

Alan Shatter on now - I can't hear him over Aretha Franklin

"I believe it is essential that that conduct is explained ..."

"many are retired people who are relying on dividend .."
"people who I believe were defrauded of their money .. but this was a share that was artificially boosted ..."

Where's this going ?

Shatter is a legal expert - though family law is his specific area of expertise. He's made soundings too about criminal liability on a number of levels.

"Failure of corporate regulation of enormous proportions."

And the first swipe at the Greens.

"We don't know what assets are backing up these debts ... " - Shatter

"I want assurances from the Minister that there will be a proper Tribunal investigation in this matter .. "

" .. The Greens did nothing to influence the property market .. (?) "

"[everyone] was betrayed" -- Shatter

Sean Barrett FG TD Dun Laoighaire :::>>>

"we don't know assets, liabilities, debts, ... and we've been asked to come in here and asked to buy such an investment bank after 4 or 5 hours of debate "

I'm nearly crying with joy at that fella

He's against it on the basis that it will spell doom for the other banks.

PMPA had to be bailed out.
AIB had to be bailed out because of reckless trading re ICI.

Plumbing is for plumbers. Everyone wants to be someone else and there's nothing in the legislation confining people to the job they're supposed to perform.

And a litany of what it is we don't know.

"We're being asked to buy this bank blindfolded "

"Plumbing is for plumbers ... building societies want to become banks, banks wnat to become insurance companies .. there's no regulation "

Obama getting sworn in

"we don't KNOW what liabilities there are, how we are going to fund them .. The other retail banks will come under the microscope if we nationalise this one - there won't be any investement in them - no one will invest"

Snap.

Caoimhín is on now. Time to put the kettle on...

Caoimhin O Caoláin

"a spade is a spade"

"in relation to investigation - what investigation Minister is underway because we are not privy to the full facts and we are being asked to buy a pig in a poke"

"I ask you directly, Minister - have you advised the members of this house of all the information pertaining to this institution historically and contemporaneously ?? "

Michael Noonan:

"I don't have enough information to make a good decision"

Well it looks like the Oppostion are opposing - could this hinge on Greens and independents ? or back benchers on either side ?

"We were told everything was fine and there were no subprimes and suddenly it all went pear shaped and is it any wonder there's a lack of credibility"

"You haven't put enough information on the table today, Minister - you have the PWC report, you have the Jones LaSalle report (?) you must have the Anglo annual report which was deferred publication"

Noonan:

"you're behind the curve on debate - things move on and you don't keep up "

Quote :

we don't KNOW what liabilities there are, how we are going to fund them .. The other retail banks will come under the microscope if we nationalise this one - there won't be any investement in them - no one will invest"

In a nutshell. Sinn Fein poor as they were on the Guarantee. Don't they have any Marxist economists to advise them?