There have been many recent proposals over in the old country on methods to promote the Irish language, all of which seem to ensure more vitriolic hatred for the Irish language, mainly because they use government funds, and/or entail an element of compulsion to some extent. Innate in these threads is the assumption of unprofitability, 'making work' aspects, or untenable marketing ability of the Irish language.

However, there was also another thread about a new attempt in Finland to hasten the adoption of the electric car through crowdfinders. That is to say, they source producers of the cars, and source potential buyers so that they can acquire their product quicker and easier, thereby ensuring the take up of these cars is greater by matching supply with demand. (I'm no economist, but that is how I imagine this to work).

I was then thinking, giving Déise's emphasis on advertising, that a similar system could work for the Irish language. It is clear that a costly broad-advertising campaign that has to advertise to 100% of the population, so that they might reach a mere 3% is impractical. The costs would be ineffecive and it would be in no way beneficial to the Irish language. However, some breed of forum type arrangement, along the lines of crowdfinders, would be way more beneficial. Irish speaking customers could advertise (for free) on the site as to which services they require, and then companies with an Irish speaking staff would perform it. Likewise, companies who provide services in Irish, from solicitors to basic carpenters, could advertise under different sections on the site, and people could choose them as they well.

Naturally, there are problems with this arrangement. Firstly, there is an intense discriminatory aspect to it. That people would prefer people to work with them who speak their language, even though they could easily employ people who spoke English for the same price. However, Wittgenstein had a phrase 'if you're buying and I'm selling, we speak your language, if you're selling and I'm buying, we speak my language.' People do indeed have a right, when been granted a service, for that service to be offered in the language they are most comfortable with, in this case Irish. It makes sense then, and is not automatically tantamount to discrimination, that they would favour the company that offered the service in that language.

Secondly, one has to consider profitability. How profitable is it to compete for a potential 3% of the market? If one hundred per cent of companies did it, then not very. However, I imagine initially that the amount of companies who provided the service would be incredibly small. Thus, if a plumber, who offered his services in Irish around the Dublin area, and being the only one, advertised with the site, then he would have automatically 2% of the market. That means he has one fiftieth of the market in his back pocket, when normally he could be competing with up to 1000(?) other plumbers, giving him a much lesser catchment area. His potential customer base jumps from .1% to 2% overnight. This is more work than he could handle. Likewise for various other businesses engaged in such an enterprise.

How interested would Irish-speakers be in promoting such a system? Despite the apparent image of the rabid gaelgóir[sic], most Irish speakers, particularly Gaeltacht dwellers, are rather laissez-faire about the promotion of the Irish language. However, outside of the Gaeltachtaí, it could indeed be a reciprocal arrangement. Many individuals would be eager to offer their own services, and thereby would be more willing to accept the services of other Irish speakers. It could also be emphasised that such an arrangement benefits the Irish language, which they have decided to maintain, and destroys perceptions of unprofitability thereof.

Now I know what you're thinking, as the antique Irish would say, cá bpuinn? What benefit or advantage? Well, firstly, it turns Irish-speaking into an asset of a physical and monetary nature, and not merely of a mental or cultural one This is done on a pratical level, access to markets etc, as well as on a social-networking level. In wales for instance, social networking amongst Welsh-speakers, according to what I have read, has ensured that on average city-dwelling Welsh speakers are slightly richer than their monoglot counterparts. Such could indeed be done for Irish, indeed the smaller number of Irish speakers may act in its favour. It would counteract the image of Irish as a liability. People in the Gaeltacht would no longer think it unnecessary for their child to learn Irish if they are inevitably bound for Dublin, but rather that such an ability would proove helpful for them to network and supply them with a steady stream of work in their own field. It would also convince city-based Irish speakers not to abandon their language after a generation but to pass it on to their children in the hope that they too would benefit as their parents had done. For the first time in 150 years, Irish would be considered, albeit mildly profitable. This, if successful, would also be done without government assistance, thus providing employment for Irish speakers without having to stretch out our hand for free money. That should at least satisfy the libertarians among us. It would also convince individuals of school leaving age, that whatever Irish they had acquired was worth maintaining. Perhaps, this would produce an imbalance in the market, as supply would outstrip demand, but maybe just maybe, maintenance of the acquired Irish would prompt them to speak it more regularly themselves, and thus ask for services in Irish themselves. However, this is more pie in the sky stuff, that does not affect the basic idea.

So what do you think, worthwhile or impractical?

So, in short, you're proposing that Irish speakers put the equivalent of a 'We speak Irish' sticker on their product or service ? And then seek out buyers who want to deal through Irish..

I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I'd imagine an Irish speaking barber, or plumber in your example, would get more business.

My question would be, would it be more profitable for me to learn Irish properly, or learn German properly. I would say German without a doubt.
So the language is not without competition.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

So, in short, you're proposing that Irish speakers put the equivalent of a 'We speak Irish' sticker on their product or service ? And then seek out buyers who want to deal through Irish..


I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I'd imagine an Irish speaking barber, or plumber in your example, would get more business.

In effect yes, but a much more efficient way to access the market. The individual for instance wouldn't have to go from place to place to look for such a sticker but rather access the site and find one straight away. Think of it as a more interactive/pro-active Irish speaking golden pages.

Quote :

My question would be, would it be more profitable for me to learn Irish properly, or learn German properly. I would say German without a doubt.
So the language is not without competition.

As a primary skill or as a secondary skill?

It depends on where one lives I suppose and on one's qualification. If one lives in Ireland, and one's primary degree was Irish, then I would say that through teaching opportunities, and through state translation services, one could compete rather well with someone with a degree in German, who would have similar opportunities open to them, perhaps tipping in favour of German. If one, however, spoke German fluently or Irish fluently, but your main qualification was in a different sector, consider a plumber or solcitor for instance, then you would have to say, that with a system like i described above, Irish would be more profitable. I'm not sure of the size of the German speaking community in Ireland, but they have no geographical base, only one immersion language education environment, and most Irish who learn German do not become part of the German-speaking community, neither does it become a home language for them unless they marry a native German speaker. This is markedly different from the tendency of most people who acquire Irish fluently in my experience, and would make such a system for German in Ireland almost impossible.

As for those who are willing to move abroad. Yes German would be more popular. But very few individuals do move abroad unfortunately. By the same reasoning, if one judges the potential profitability of a language solely on the population size of its base, we should abandon Germand and French altogether, and learn Mandarin and Hindi instead. Geography and proximity is all important in the language debate.

I was thinking of a secondary skill. I was probably thinking personally, being an engineer, German would be a far more complimentary language.

But in terms of services within the state, I can see an opportunity for Irish speaking within the filtered context you propose.
So how would you implement something like this ? Website ?

This reminds me of the Guaranteed Irish logo idea...

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

I was thinking of a secondary skill. I was probably thinking personally, being an engineer, German would be a far more complimentary language.

But in terms of services within the state, I can see an opportunity for Irish speaking within the filtered context you propose.
So how would you implement something like this ? Website ?

This reminds me of the Guaranteed Irish logo idea...

It does indeed. I was reminded of that today when trying to decide would Irish speaking people actually be interested in promoting such services through Irish, considering the take up of state translations is still below target. Such a movement within the Irish speaking community, similar to the Guaranteed Irish idea, could indeed be effective if people are properly motivated.

I think a website would indeed guarantee the reaction, analysis of supply and demand idea that I am hoping for. However, I imagine a nice Irish speaking directory of people, listed by skill and or by location, would also fulfill the purpose. This, however, would be less cost effective as an approach. The website, at least, would grow how the demand would determine it would grow, however, the directory could easily overestimate it and ruin its cost-effectiveness.

I've noticed that on P.ie discussions on Irish too - they idea seems to be that people hate it so much it should be beaten into them. Quel horreur! There are a lot of signs of attitude change to Irish. Much more carrot (enjoyment) and less stick (pain) is needed.
I think what would be nice would be a lot of youtube video ads with irish speaking people selling their products, rather than written ads. I think Irish is at a stage in which it needs to be heard a lot.

I know a of a dentist who speaks Irish. But I try to avoid speaking while in the chair, you know how it is.

It sounds like a good idea, in principle. The detail entirely eludes me though. But what I'm getting is: Irish is under-represented in the more serious world of cut-throat business. It's restricted to artsy-fartsy things like history and literature (sorry Riadach) and the dreaded heritage. Business and science and the like are foreign territory, though I hear good things about NUI Galway and DCU's Fiontar programme. There is a group promoting Irish in business but I think they largely restrict themselves to encouraging Irish signs.

Like organic food, I think there is a market for this kind of thing, a niche. I'm sure McWilliams has a name for them, the Gaelscoil Gráinnes or something. There are those too, that regard the Irish language as a sacred thing, not to be mixed with worldly concerns. The type that go on about how Irish is much more expressive and yada yada... They'll hardly object though.