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 WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction

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PostSubject: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:00 pm

For the last couple of months the controversial Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) has been posting its hate-filled, pseudo-religious propaganda on Live Leak. The WBC are famed in the US for protesting the funerals of soldiers that have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. They claim the deaths are a punishment from God for the US's many sins, foremost amongst them, homosexuality.

I'll not give a direct link to the WBC web site as I'm not into promoting fascists.

The reason I'm penning this is because, the WBC launched a video today that targets Ireland. I'm interested in what the response will be. Will there be much wailing and moaning, or will it be ignored as it should? Is the WBS about to become a household name?

I'm aware that I'm bringing this particular topic up for discussion, but at the same time, am saying these folks should be ignored. Imo, these people are about to be talked about no matter what I do.

Anyway, here's the short video they released:

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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:09 pm

I'm reluctant to watch it again - what exactly are they accusing us of?
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:15 pm

Kate P wrote:
I'm reluctant to watch it again - what exactly are they accusing us of?

The same thing they accuse everyone else of: they're saying that we're perverts, that we've turned from God and that we will thus be destroyed, and that they rejoice in this.

Is it me or what - but does that flag look like an Irish flag or is it an Italian one? Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:24 pm

Looks Italian to me.

But the song - which sounds like it was lifted from Darby O'Gill and the Little People in some strange way, accuses us of harbouring positive attitudes towards members of the gay and lesbian community - as far as I can make out. Yet we don't allow gay marriage and anyone who has been listening to the voxpops lately will know that if there's one thing working class Ireland doesn't want Lisbon (I know...) to bring in, it's gay marriage.

It seems totally baseless to me.

It's scay to think they are so consumed with bitterness. Some God they have. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:45 pm

Do you think this song will be mocked bitterly in the George of a night?
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:01 pm

There is that kind of poison closer to home, unfortunately -Castlebar.ie closed last week due to threats from a Mayo newspaper that had been running virulently homophobic reports.
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:19 pm

There is a website (I think it's by the same people - has the same message anyway) that has been around for quite a while.
The site seems to blame David Norris for Ireland being hated by God.
I'm not sure if anyone really wants the url of the site but if you do I'll post it (it's not that difficult really, just think of the chorus of the song).
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:32 pm

Who do these people think they are? What makes them think that they have any insight into the ways of the Lord? Are they so arrogant to think that they know who God will exalt and humble in the Last Judgement?

These people are a total and utter disgrace to Christianity, and the Christian message. They are hate-filled(not a Christian emotion, love is the Christian emotion) and pigeon-holed into one issue.

I remember watching that Louis Theroux programme and not once did they mention anything other than homosexuality and their weird obsession with it. Also, I never remember them doing anything charitable for their community, which is another Christian vocation. Our parish does this through helping Accord, Trócaire, SVP and other organisations, but these WBCers seem so blinded by this anti-gay mission that they forget their full duties as Christians.

It is possible that they will turn out to be the most humbled of all at the Last Judgement.
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:33 pm

AfricanDave wrote:
There is a website (I think it's by the same people - has the same message anyway) that has been around for quite a while.
The site seems to blame David Norris for Ireland being hated by God.
I'm not sure if anyone really wants the url of the site but if you do I'll post it (it's not that difficult really, just think of the chorus of the song).

That wasn't this site. It was the Mayo Echo that published the articles - Castlebar.ie is a ten year old reputable community website that appears to be horrified by the Echo's article.

Castlebar.ie

David Norris ? Is it because of his dress sense ?
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:27 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Who do these people think they are? What makes them think that they have any insight into the ways of the Lord? Are they so arrogant to think that they know who God will exalt and humble in the Last Judgement?

These people are a total and utter disgrace to Christianity, and the Christian message. They are hate-filled(not a Christian emotion, love is the Christian emotion) and pigeon-holed into one issue.

I remember watching that Louis Theroux programme and not once did they mention anything other than homosexuality and their weird obsession with it. Also, I never remember them doing anything charitable for their community, which is another Christian vocation. Our parish does this through helping Accord, Trócaire, SVP and other organisations, but these WBCers seem so blinded by this anti-gay mission that they forget their full duties as Christians.

It is possible that they will turn out to be the most humbled of all at the Last Judgement.

Well I ran into some of their storm-troopers (Alive/Coir/We are change Ireland - they are all the same organisation it was proudly confirmed to me this morning) - I was leafleting and canvassing with 2 elderly party members when 5 of them ganged up on us and what happened next was the ugliest thing I have yet seen in my short political career of activisim. They came up to us and started screaming (this is understatement of the year) in our faces that we were traitors, quislings and homosexuals as we were landing out leaftets and chatting to people ,all the while a colleague of theirs captured it on camera - then Gerry - who had had enough of trying to speak over the volume and venom -turned to 2 of them and asked them to tone it down - not exactly sure what happened next - but the next minute I turned around I saw Gerry (79 years old) being punched and kicked to the ground by 2 strapping 20 years olds and they proceeded to scream in this ears while he was down there - I rushed over and got punched in the head, stomach and knifed in the arm before a crowd of guys who had heard the fracas came around the corner and the Coir boys fecked off - My two colleagues were very badly shaken - in total shock - and Im just back from the doctors with 3 stitches in my left arm - only a superficial wound thank god. These people are vicious -

Coir " Dont be bullied - Vote No" - hmmm - and you wonder why Im becoming more and more cynical and depressed about the state of our country? -

I will disagree with the No camp - but Im not going to physically beat anybody up and scream manically at them and shower lies all over the place - Im as mad as hell and would have no problem going into Capel Street with a molotov cocktail in my hand at the mo - but no - I will have a cup of camoille tea and chill down and tomorrow I will get up and move on and do my bit for the cause in a democratic way - even if its a lost cause.


Last edited by Edo on Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:36 pm

Edo wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Who do these people think they are? What makes them think that they have any insight into the ways of the Lord? Are they so arrogant to think that they know who God will exalt and humble in the Last Judgement?

These people are a total and utter disgrace to Christianity, and the Christian message. They are hate-filled(not a Christian emotion, love is the Christian emotion) and pigeon-holed into one issue.

I remember watching that Louis Theroux programme and not once did they mention anything other than homosexuality and their weird obsession with it. Also, I never remember them doing anything charitable for their community, which is another Christian vocation. Our parish does this through helping Accord, Trócaire, SVP and other organisations, but these WBCers seem so blinded by this anti-gay mission that they forget their full duties as Christians.

It is possible that they will turn out to be the most humbled of all at the Last Judgement.

Well I ran into some of their storm-troopers (Alive/Coir/We are change Ireland - they are all the same organisation it was proudly confirmed to me this morning) - I was leafleting and canvassing with 2 elderly party members when 5 of them ganged up on us and what happened next was the ugliest thing I have yet seen in my short political career of activisim. They came up to us and started screaming (this is understatement of the year) in our faces that we were traitors, quislings and homosexuals as we were landing out leaftets and chatting to people ,all the while a colleague of theirs captured it on camera - then Gerry - who had had enough of trying to speak over the volume and venom -turned to 2 of them and asked them to tone it down - not exactly sure what happened next - but the next minute I turned around I saw Gerry (79 years old) being punched and kicked to the ground by 2 strapping 20 years olds and they proceeded to scream in this ears while he was down there - I rushed over and got punched in the head, stomach and knifed in the arm before a crowd of guys who had heard the fracas came around the corner and the Coir boys fecked off - My two colleagues were very badly shaken - in total shock - and Im just back from the doctors with 3 stitches in my left arm - only a superficial wound thank god. These people are vicious -

Coir " Dont be bullied - Vote No" - hmmm - and you wonder why Im becoming more and more cynical and depressed about the state of our country?

Is this the subject of a criminal inquiry now?
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:38 pm

We reported it - the boyos got away and legged it rapid and hopefully something will come out of it - but ya know I wouldnt hold my breath - Coir will deny it completely that it was anything to do with them and without evidence - what can ya do?
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:44 pm

Edo wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Who do these people think they are? What makes them think that they have any insight into the ways of the Lord? Are they so arrogant to think that they know who God will exalt and humble in the Last Judgement?

These people are a total and utter disgrace to Christianity, and the Christian message. They are hate-filled(not a Christian emotion, love is the Christian emotion) and pigeon-holed into one issue.

I remember watching that Louis Theroux programme and not once did they mention anything other than homosexuality and their weird obsession with it. Also, I never remember them doing anything charitable for their community, which is another Christian vocation. Our parish does this through helping Accord, Trócaire, SVP and other organisations, but these WBCers seem so blinded by this anti-gay mission that they forget their full duties as Christians.

It is possible that they will turn out to be the most humbled of all at the Last Judgement.

Well I ran into some of their storm-troopers (Alive/Coir/We are change Ireland - they are all the same organisation it was proudly confirmed to me this morning) - I was leafleting and canvassing with 2 elderly party members when 5 of them ganged up on us and what happened next was the ugliest thing I have yet seen in my short political career of activisim. They came up to us and started screaming (this is understatement of the year) in our faces that we were traitors, quislings and homosexuals as we were landing out leaftets and chatting to people ,all the while a colleague of theirs captured it on camera - then Gerry - who had had enough of trying to speak over the volume and venom -turned to 2 of them and asked them to tone it down - not exactly sure what happened next - but the next minute I turned around I saw Gerry (79 years old) being punched and kicked to the ground by 2 strapping 20 years olds and they proceeded to scream in this ears while he was down there - I rushed over and got punched in the head, stomach and knifed in the arm before a crowd of guys who had heard the fracas came around the corner and the Coir boys fecked off - My two colleagues were very badly shaken - in total shock - and Im just back from the doctors with 3 stitches in my left arm - only a superficial wound thank god. These people are vicious -

Coir " Dont be bullied - Vote No" - hmmm - and you wonder why Im becoming more and more cynical and depressed about the state of our country? -

I will disagree with the No camp - but Im not going to physically beat anybody up and scream manically at them and shower lies all over the place - Im as mad as hell and would have no problem going into Capel Street with a molotov cocktail in my hand at the mo - but no - I will have a cup of camoille tea and chill down and tomorrow I will get up and move on and do my bit for the cause in a democratic way - even if its a lost cause.

That's a horrible experience to have had Edo - I hope you are all recovering from it. It must have been awful.

It seems incredibly extreme though and I have to say I smell a rat here. This is exactly the sort of episode that would be a gift to the YES camp - an emotive and violent incident with which to send people surrying to their side, anxious to dissasociate themselves. It's the 'don't knows who are most likely to be affected to something like this'. I don't mean for a moment to suggest you are or would be complicit in anythng so unpleasant but I just don't believe that any NO campaigner would resort to this - Id like to know much more about who these people were and what Coir and others have to say about it before making my mind up.
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:47 pm

Edo wrote:
We reported it - the boyos got away and legged it rapid and hopefully something will come out of it - but ya know I wouldnt hold my breath - Coir will deny it completely that it was anything to do with them and without evidence - what can ya do?

Thats awful. I know the stormtroopers of Mary are over-zealous to say the least but I never heard of one being bladed. Strange days indeed
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:48 pm

Christ! Me heart goes out to you Edo. I disagree with your position and all that, but I deplore and condemn the actions you describe as having been taken against you.

I hope the Gardaí have been brought into this and that yourself and your comrades make statements as soon as is possible - it'd be a good idea too, to make sure the Gardaí have the details of all the other witnesses too.

I don't know what to say. I hope this doesn't result in you turning away from standing up for what you believe in. Not everyone who disagrees with your position is unreasonable. Where will we be if we cannot even discuss contentious issues?

I wish yourself and your friends a quick recovery of both mind and body, and will do some digging into this myself as I know some members of We Are Change (I'm neither a member nor a supporter).

Regards.
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:55 pm

Aragon wrote:
Edo wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Who do these people think they are? What makes them think that they have any insight into the ways of the Lord? Are they so arrogant to think that they know who God will exalt and humble in the Last Judgement?

These people are a total and utter disgrace to Christianity, and the Christian message. They are hate-filled(not a Christian emotion, love is the Christian emotion) and pigeon-holed into one issue.

I remember watching that Louis Theroux programme and not once did they mention anything other than homosexuality and their weird obsession with it. Also, I never remember them doing anything charitable for their community, which is another Christian vocation. Our parish does this through helping Accord, Trócaire, SVP and other organisations, but these WBCers seem so blinded by this anti-gay mission that they forget their full duties as Christians.

It is possible that they will turn out to be the most humbled of all at the Last Judgement.

Well I ran into some of their storm-troopers (Alive/Coir/We are change Ireland - they are all the same organisation it was proudly confirmed to me this morning) - I was leafleting and canvassing with 2 elderly party members when 5 of them ganged up on us and what happened next was the ugliest thing I have yet seen in my short political career of activisim. They came up to us and started screaming (this is understatement of the year) in our faces that we were traitors, quislings and homosexuals as we were landing out leaftets and chatting to people ,all the while a colleague of theirs captured it on camera - then Gerry - who had had enough of trying to speak over the volume and venom -turned to 2 of them and asked them to tone it down - not exactly sure what happened next - but the next minute I turned around I saw Gerry (79 years old) being punched and kicked to the ground by 2 strapping 20 years olds and they proceeded to scream in this ears while he was down there - I rushed over and got punched in the head, stomach and knifed in the arm before a crowd of guys who had heard the fracas came around the corner and the Coir boys fecked off - My two colleagues were very badly shaken - in total shock - and Im just back from the doctors with 3 stitches in my left arm - only a superficial wound thank god. These people are vicious -

Coir " Dont be bullied - Vote No" - hmmm - and you wonder why Im becoming more and more cynical and depressed about the state of our country? -

I will disagree with the No camp - but Im not going to physically beat anybody up and scream manically at them and shower lies all over the place - Im as mad as hell and would have no problem going into Capel Street with a molotov cocktail in my hand at the mo - but no - I will have a cup of camoille tea and chill down and tomorrow I will get up and move on and do my bit for the cause in a democratic way - even if its a lost cause.

That's a horrible experience to have had Edo - I hope you are all recovering from it. It must have been awful.

It seems incredibly extreme though and I have to say I smell a rat here. This is exactly the sort of episode that would be a gift to the YES camp - an emotive and violent incident with which to send people surrying to their side, anxious to dissasociate themselves. It's the 'don't knows who are most likely to be affected to something like this'. I don't mean for a moment to suggest you are or would be complicit in anythng so unpleasant but I just don't believe that any NO campaigner would resort to this - Id like to know much more about who these people were and what Coir and others have to say about it before making my mind up.

Of course Aragon - I know lots of No Campaigners and nothing like this would even cross their minds - but there is an extreme element jumping on board here - pity It happened early in the morning at a very quiet junction - but they wouldn't have done it in front of the cameras - peronally I think a few of them were on something - you know that "look in the eyes" that signal that the lights are on but you're not sure who exactly is at home? - Hell -they had Coir stickers on - but whose to know if they are really members or tagging along for a good rant and a bit of aggro - Coir have been conducting some very aggresive heckling stunts over the last few days - maybe a copycat incident that got out of control?

Of course it would be a gift to the Yes camp - but I posted it on this thread just to emphasis that there are some seriously unhinged individuals tagging along here and this is not the first incident and once again the very valid reasons for voting no will be lost for the people who saw this incident.

Hell - just saying what happened to me - thats all.
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:32 pm

Sorry to hear that, Edo. I hope you have gone to your local Garda Station and made a statement rather than just reporting it. I'd advise your fellow campaigners to do the same.
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:33 pm

Sorry to hear that, Edo. To be fair, though, I remember getting collecting a punch to the face after a CND rally (London) which left the imprint of my teeth on my inside lip for about three weeks - the guys in question were wearing CND stickers, but I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have been CND supporters - since the punch I got was on foot of answering Yes to "do you support nuclear disarmament".
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:47 pm

You must be feeling well shook up and angry Edo. It sounds as though this happened very quickly.

There are very dangerous elements of the right involved in the No campaign. I would include Libertas in that as well as COIR - I don't know who the Hibernian people are but they seem all to be part of a mutually supportive far right "Christian" crew.

The point was rightly made by someone last week that the (I think necessary) interest in Libertas had shifted people's attention from the likes of COIR, who need to be thoroughly exposed for what they are. I didn't know anything about COIR so had a google. I looked at some videos these people produced and mentioned here I think that I was shocked by the poisonous racism of them. Just had another look to see who they are and they seem to be a extreme right wing group with neo nazi links.

It is predictable, but no less worrying for that, when the economy is sideways and the future very uncertain, that groups like this take new life and get new supporters some who are dangerous headbangers. They should be firmly opposed and exposed by all political groups in Ireland, and the Referendum is imho secondary to that.

If it is any comfort to you Edo, these types of people traditionally like to kick the heck out of the left.

I find it extraordinary that people who call themselves left have been prepared to share platforms with these people on the base of a No platform. There is nothing that would persuade me to sit alongside them. When all is said and done, the shaping and reshaping of the EU will be a matter to be sorted out in practice in the future no matter what the result of the Referendum. There is a gulf between neofacism and decent humanity that is much more important than this Referendum.

The attack sounds very much similar to the attack on Pronsias de Rossa, with a video camera and shouting followed by an attack.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87188

Indymedia reported here that a witness took photographs of the perpetrator with a mobile phone that was provided to the Gardai. There might be some connection if the Guards wanted to follow that up.
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:09 pm

Edo that's shocking ! Stabbed ! Weren't you in a busy street with witnesses or anything? The poor old lads too. That's kinda newsworthy - have you made any moves to publicise it further because awareness of it could spare your fellow campaigners getting violence of a similar sort used against them in future, couldn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:11 pm

cactus flower wrote:
The point was rightly made by someone last week that the (I think necessary) interest in Libertas had shifted people's attention from the likes of COIR, who need to be thoroughly exposed for what they are. I didn't know anything about COIR so had a google. I looked at some videos these people produced and mentioned here I think that I was shocked by the poisonous racism of them. Just had another look to see who they are and they seem to be a extreme right wing group with neo nazi links.

I tried to find COIR's website but didnt have any luck - do you have any links to these videos and anything relevant cf?
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:15 pm

A very truncated bit of video was published by WAC (right wing libertarian conspiracy theorists)

These people could be any kind of provocateurs.
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:16 pm

The left have not shared any platform with rightwing groups like Libertas and indeed have distanced themselves from any such group, well before any mud started to fly. The fact that the mainstream media etc. has a habit of lumping these groups together, says more about the media than any group concerned.

Currently I'm awaiting a response from We Are Change regarding the allegation that they are associated with COIR. I'm not a supporter of We Are Change, particularly due to their preoccupation with what I consider to be conspiracy theories. However, I'm alarmed that the alarmist nonsense foisted on the public by the media and Mr. DeRossa is still doing its rounds. If this smear campaign had an ounce of truth to it, neither the media nor Mr. DeRossa would have dropped it as abruptly as they did.

For the record: Had I been the cameraman that Mr. DeRossa attacked, I'd not have attempted to escape from him and would have given him much reason to regret his ignorant actions.

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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:29 pm

Aragon wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
The point was rightly made by someone last week that the (I think necessary) interest in Libertas had shifted people's attention from the likes of COIR, who need to be thoroughly exposed for what they are. I didn't know anything about COIR so had a google. I looked at some videos these people produced and mentioned here I think that I was shocked by the poisonous racism of them. Just had another look to see who they are and they seem to be a extreme right wing group with neo nazi links.

I tried to find COIR's website but didnt have any luck - do you have any links to these videos and anything relevant cf?

Sorry, don't have time at the moment - if you try a search under COIR / immigration / youtube you will find them I think.
COIR were formerly Youth Defence. They are known to have contacts with neo nazi groups in Europe.
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PostSubject: Re: WBC direct some hatred in Ireland's direction   Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:32 pm

Hermes - there a large number of comments from people who were at the meeting on the Indymedia thread and also the few seconds of video that WAC released. People will, as they did on Indymedia, form their own views.

There have been a number of public meetings advertised in which Libertas shared a platform with speakers from the Labour Party and it was Libertas that withdrew from a meeting in which SF were also to speak, not the other way around.
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