Arguments about climate change

Rely on youtu-

What if your favourite peer-reviewed researcher is giving a lecture or reading from his material and that is posted on youtube ? Have you seen Google Tech Talks ? (bottom right hand side of portal)

Sometimes it's not the information but the informee that is where the problem lies.

Papal Knight wrote:

youngdan wrote:

So it wasn't too many cars then.

You can worry about global warming but in the meantime I am dealing with global freezing here. When do you expect the 10 degrees to kick in.

It might help if you managed to grasp the difference between climate and weather. Or even the most basic facts.

Indeed. youngdan is basing much of his case on personal experience which is limited, subjective and unscientific.

When will these 5 or 10 degrees begin to show. The basics are that record cold temps are being set all over the place.

Will ye kindly point out anyplace that set a record high for the date recently.

What ye believe and what is happening in the real world seems at odds.

I rely on a thermometer Papal. Today it is telling me to wear a nice warm jacket.

Do you still think Judy Rouliani is going to win the nomination. At least my man gets his opinion asked on the business channels.

You didn't believe me when I told you elephant whole was going to get her ass beat by Obama either.

youngdan wrote:

When will these 5 or 10 degrees begin to show. The basics are that record cold temps are being set all over the place.

Will ye kindly point out anyplace that set a record high for the date recently.

What ye believe and what is happening in the real world seems at odds.

No, what is meant by global average temperature is not what you appear to think. "Global warming" does not, cannot, consist of every place on earth getting warmer year on year, year in year out - and thus not a series of record highs. It consists of ups and downs, with the average increasing.

Honestly, you're like a frog in a pot.

ribbit, ribbit.

Someone is making icecream out of this frog because I am am a bit chilly. Can you come with even one spot with a record high. I will be watching.

ah for fcuks sake YD - your're like a conservative mate of mine who was forecasting a tory win in 97 -

Im not a member of the Greens -50% of whom are nice folks but the last time they worried about household emissions as expenses was when Queen Victoria visited this country - 30% are total fcukin embittered sados who are prayin for the end of the world cos they didn't manage to get worthwhile penetration on debs nite - 5% are for the fuckin derangos full stop -and 10% plus are like my online amigo Ibis - whose' the soundest fecker in the world and a bloke or lady who I do not know, but is a person I would really like to know in the real world - not because we agree 80% on Lisbon - but because he/she comes across as a really sound, intelligent,my kind of person ( ie somebody who is prepared to look at all angles of an arguement - even if there is 15 different angles you can take) - and I like that more than anything else

With all respect to the rest of yis - Ibis is only one of yis who has me walking away from the laptop going ( l'll qualify this by saying - when I've been intellectually qualified to understand the theme - cos there are some seriously cerebrally overloaded entities around this place) - " the fecker has a serious case to make here and Im going to need to do a fair bit of time in research and R/D to respond to that."

Climate Change in happening - deal with it!

I have the greatest admiration for Ibis but I don't think there is anything to worry about, especially on days like today. To me it is just a money scheme. You can pollute away as long as you pay.

I am not the one forecasting, I expect no change. All I see is an allegation that the temp has risen 0.5%.

When new highs appear all over the world I will take note but that does not seem the case now

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/607

Anytime I check the latest on global warming I find that the tempertures have been dropping for a decade. There are 30000 scientists that say it is bunk and pookum.

Papal and A-T think all these guys are part of a big conspiracy to fool us into thinking the world is not boiling but in fact cooling. They need to take off the tin foil caps and look out the window. Is the sea level above the statue of liberty yet.

youngdan wrote:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/607

Anytime I check the latest on global warming I find that the tempertures have been dropping for a decade. There are 30000 scientists that say it is bunk and pookum.

Papal and A-T think all these guys are part of a big conspiracy to fool us into thinking the world is not boiling but in fact cooling. They need to take off the tin foil caps and look out the window. Is the sea level above the statue of liberty yet.

I'm sure many of the scientists who doubt the current consensus on climate change have scientific reasons for doing so - not all, alas: some lack relevant expertise, or are simply out of date. And yes, some are funded by industry groups or companies that would prefer not to have to cost their greenhouse emissions, like oil companies and the coal industry. Those companies are indeed funding front groups in the usual way, as per the tobacco industry - however, you can't really call it a conspiracy, because it's absolutely standard PR tactics. Still, some people happily drink the industry Koolaid - sure if nobody bought the PR, there'd be no point in paying for it. Paying for it those companies undoubtedly are, though,

American Petroleum Institute PR action plan (1998) and a couple of other documents, courtesy of Greenpeace here - an excerpt:



Note the correspondence between what is outlined as success and what youngdan is saying. Hook, line, and sinker - there's always folks you can catch by pretending you're taking a stand against 'conventional wisdom'.

youngdan is looking for conspiracies in entirely the wrong places, in my view.

I am not the one saying there is a conspiracy denying global warming. I am saying things are staying the same.

The others are spouting the theory of 10 degrees and rising sealevels.

It is 16 degrees F in Boston at the moment or minus 10 centigrade and Winter is a week away.

It does not feel too warm to me in the real world.

youngdan wrote:

I am not the one saying there is a conspiracy denying global warming. I am saying things are staying the same.

The others are spouting the theory of 10 degrees and rising sealevels.

It is 16 degrees F in Boston at the moment or minus 10 centigrade and Winter is a week away.

It does not feel too warm to me in the real world.

Aye well, there we go. It's not warm where youngdan is. Case closed.

Minus 10 centigrade could be described as not warm sure enough.

If anyone is sweating they can look at this chill map

http://vortex.plymouth.edu/uschill.gif

You have been asked numerous times to point out where record high temps are being set but still no reports

I was right when I said that the hurricane season would be quite but you said there was so much energy that it would be crazy.

I am now saying that this winter which starts in a couple of days will be colder than usual but you of course are saying it will be mild.

Well we shall see.

youngdan wrote:

Minus 10 centigrade could be described as not warm sure enough.

If anyone is sweating they can look at this chill map

http://vortex.plymouth.edu/uschill.gif

You have been asked numerous times to point out where record high temps are being set but still no reports

I was right when I said that the hurricane season would be quite but you said there was so much energy that it would be crazy.

I am now saying that this winter which starts in a couple of days will be colder than usual but you of course are saying it will be mild.
Well we shall see.

Who said it was going to be a mild winter, youngdan?

What are you saying, will it be mild or will it be below average. It is a simple question with only 2 answers

youngdan wrote:

What are you saying, will it be mild or will it be below average. It is a simple question with only 2 answers

I was asking you who said it was going to be mild. That is a simple question with only one answer.

I am saying it is going to be colder than average and Ibis, Papal and A-T are saying that it is to be milder than average. That is unless they think that global warming will lead to lower temps on average. They are in panic over global warming. Now what do you think

youngdan wrote:

I am saying it is going to be colder than average and Ibis, Papal and A-T are saying that it is to be milder than average. That is unless they think that global warming will lead to lower temps on average. They are in panic over global warming. Now what do you think

Where did they say that?

Who can take you seriously. If it is going to be colder due to global warming then we have nothing to worry about do we.

They are bleating over warming so if they think it will be colder they are more delusional than I think. They spend every post saying it is getting warmer.

But what is wrong with you. Why are you afraid to voice an opinion. Do you spend your time spout
ing about warming as well but still is afraid to say the winter will be above average.

So if either of the others think it will be colder I will be pleasantly surprised

youngdan wrote:

I am saying it is going to be colder than average and Ibis, Papal and A-T are saying that it is to be milder than average. That is unless they think that global warming will lead to lower temps on average. They are in panic over global warming. Now what do you think

Picture of a rise in average global temperatures - each blue box represents a -1 degree temperature anomaly (1 degree colder than expected), each red a 1 degree positive anomaly (1 degree warmer than expected). Grey boxes are normal temperatures for their area - no anomaly. Global averages can easily be found by summing all the anomalies. Time runs from left to right, obviously.



Youngdan can be in the square marked YD - we will assume he cannot see out of that box, which I think is not an unreasonable assumption. He therefore experiences 'global warming' as 'global cooling' and cannot see what all the fuss is about. He will need to look outside his box.

It should also be obvious that quite a lot of the squares experience no discernible local trend.

Youngdan can see allright, he chooses not to. He creates a straw dog when he says that you say the weather this winter will be milder than average. You don't say that.

cactus flower wrote:

Youngdan can see allright, he chooses not to. He creates a straw dog when he says that you say the weather this winter will be milder than average. You don't say that.

I think you're right. I've repeatedly pointed out that "global warming" is not simply a rise in temperatures everywhere all the time, with every winter everywhere warmer than the previous winter. Still he sticks to that as what global warming must mean.

Neither of ye have a back bone. Ye don't have the courage of yeer convictions after the hurricane season was one of the quietest on record.

Am I not very lucky to be in the box where it freezing. I don't have to worry about a thing. It is a big box because it is frigid all over the US and Canada.

We have people screaming about warming but are too scared to pre
dict the winter will be cooler than average.

Not just in North America but anywhere on the planet. Why should any reader take your're view seriously when you both doubt them yourselves

youngdan wrote:

Neither of ye have a back bone. Ye don't have the courage of yeer convictions after the hurricane season was one of the quietest on record.

One year doesn't matter youngdan. One year is but one datapoint in the long-term climactic trends which, as a result of sharply increasing emissions, point unmistakeably to global warming, climate change and so on.

Quote :

Am I not very lucky to be in the box where it freezing. I don't have to worry about a thing. It is a big box because it is frigid all over the US and Canada.

Look at the photos of glaciers youngdan. Everywhere around the world they have shrunk and are clear indicators of the climate change crisis.

Quote :

Not just in North America but anywhere on the planet. Why should any reader take your're view seriously when you both doubt them yourselves

Why should we take you seriously when you base your views on supposition, wilful ignorance, strawmen and limited personal experience.