The ISEQ Thread Part I - March 2008 - October 2008 **LOCKED**

I think I would have to respectfully disagree with you regarding the Joe Duffy Show, cactus.

Whilst I think an objective discussion on the deposit guarantee and indeed the position of the Irish banks in regard to solvency and liquidity is important, the manner in which it was carried out on Joe Duffy was nothing short of disgraceful. Media in Ireland has a particular power over the public which should not be underemphasised. This is presumably owing to the fact that we do not have quite so many stations as there would be in larger countries. A hysteric conversation on the Joe Duffy Show could in fact bring down a bank which is perfectly solvent. This would be very detrimental to the Irish economy. No bank in the world has enough money in cash, on deposit, to pay all depositers if there is a run on its accounts.

The Joe Duffy Show, in my opinion, should be taken off the air. It is an example of irresponsibility in the extreme. It should be noted that this is not the first time that the programme has caused major embarassment for RTE. On 28 May this year Mr Justice Carney, from the bench, stated that "I have not found interference in this case by Mr Joe Duffy while sentencing is a live issue to be helpful". The comment followed an interview which took place on the show with the family member of a victim prior to the sentencing of an accused.

Similarly the Joe Duffy Show cost RTE (and by extension the tax payer) alot of money following a defamation case involving Monica Leech, which was eventually settled out of court. In this situation the Joe Duffy Show allowed libellous comments to be made on air about Ms Leech and Minister Martin Cullen in respect of the granting of Government PR contracts.

It is clear that far from being a tendency of people to dismiss open discussion as rocking the boat, it is in fact the case that the Joe Duffy show often seeks to rock the boat without fully thinking of the potentially negative consequences which can result. This is highlighted by the examples above.

cactus flower wrote:

Speaking of which, Brian Lenihan's hauling in of RTE and their backing down worries me. People had a legitimate worry that they were entitled to discuss. Ireland seemed to have the lowest level of deposit protection in the Western World. That was changed by Government directly as a result of the programme.

I see a tendency developing for people to start saying that open discussion is "rocking the boat". Those "in the loop" can chat amongst themselves carry on trading, but the Great Unwashed are meant to sit quietly whilst their assets and pensions go down the pan.

Not true. We had the EU minimum, which was shared by the majority of the other EU states. However, I do think it was a brilliant move by Lenihan to up the amount... it's now the second highest in the EU and I doubt the Italians are much competition even if their guarantee is 3K higher.

I understand what you're saying about boat rocking, but most of the planet is having this problem right now and the difficulty is that the whole modern fiat currency system, never mind the banks, rely on sheer confidence and not much else, and we are a small country. I don't think we'd enjoy it if the entire Irish banking system went splat, and the problem is that the malaise is spreading to banks that were considered fairly robust (HBOS, anyone). Frankly, me and the rest of the great unwashed are better off if some confidence in the banks is retained

I just lost a longish post in reply to johnfás, and I haven't the heart to try to write again. Did you hear it johnfás ? I didn't and if I had I may have had more to say about Joe D. - but no one is saying that what was said on the programme was illegal.

Joe D. didn't cause the run on Northern Rock, the state of the bank's finances caused it. When people are anxious it is for a reason.

I don't think spin and denial can help us. A lot of the reason (but not all) that things are in the state they are in is the concealment of real positions by bankers. This has lead to lack of trust between banks even when they are sound. I sympathise with the wish that this will all go away without a cataclysm, but if a cataclysm comes it will not be because of Joe Duffy - in Ireland, the government of which Brian Lenihan is part has far more to do with it.

I didn't say that it was illegal, I said that it was irresponsible and disgraceful. That kind of hysteria can bring down a perfectly solvent, albeit slightly illiquid bank to the severe detriment of the Irish economy. The two other episodes which I commented on above are merely indicative of the nature of the show which is to court and create controversy.

It isn't about spin and denial it is about responsible journalism particularly when it comes to the national media and programming which has a large audience.

I listened to about half the programme.

If I through the government am to insure the deposits in a Bank against collapse then I would expect to be paid a fee for issuing such insurance.

Effectively we are insuring people who place their assets at the disposal of the Bank who then uses those assets. We are insuring people who receive interest for so doing.

Squire wrote:

If I through the government am to insure the deposits in a Bank against collapse then I would expect to be paid a fee for issuing such insurance.

I believe the banks pay into a bonded protection scheme similar to that which the travel agents pay into. It isn't as simple as the Government just paying you back your lost deposit although I'm sure they potentially foot a large percentage of the bill.

johnfás wrote:

I didn't say that it was illegal, I said that it was irresponsible and disgraceful. That kind of hysteria can bring down a perfectly solvent, albeit slightly illiquid bank to the severe detriment of the Irish economy. The two other episodes which I commented on above are merely indicative of the nature of the show which is to court and create controversy.

It isn't about spin and denial it is about responsible journalism particularly when it comes to the national media and programming which has a large audience.

I listened to about half the programme.

But was it hysteria? I seriously doubt that large numbers of people in Ireland could be induced to act irrationally by a wrong-headed broadcaster. It seems to me that there was an issue, and that people were within their rights to move their money to somewhere more secure. Do you think they reacted irrationally, or responded to information?

Joe Duffy gets right up my nose too, but I can't blame him for the Leech incident - to the best of my memory he was ambushed. Its happened to nearly every presenter on RTE at one time or another. There are many times in which I think Joe Duffy has overstepped the mark in terms of good taste and that is something for direction between RTE management and himself.

This was not a good taste issue. The Press is meant to be ornery and to ask awkward questions. I wish they had done more of it sooner. It is a difficult matter, but in my mind the freedom of the press/media should be defended and RTE management should have stood firm.

johnfás wrote:

Squire wrote:

If I through the government am to insure the deposits in a Bank against collapse then I would expect to be paid a fee for issuing such insurance.

I believe the banks pay into a bonded protection scheme similar to that which the travel agents pay into. It isn't as simple as the Government just paying you back your lost deposit although I'm sure they potentially foot a large percentage of the bill.

They do. There's only just over 500 mill in the kitty....while it is becoming increasingly clear we need something the size of the pensions reserve fund. Each of the big banks profits last year were four times this amount. Their liabilities will be larger again

expat girl wrote:

johnfás wrote:

Squire wrote:

If I through the government am to insure the deposits in a Bank against collapse then I would expect to be paid a fee for issuing such insurance.

I believe the banks pay into a bonded protection scheme similar to that which the travel agents pay into. It isn't as simple as the Government just paying you back your lost deposit although I'm sure they potentially foot a large percentage of the bill.

They do. There's only just over 500 mill in the kitty....while it is becoming increasingly clear we need something the size of the pensions reserve fund. Each of the big banks profits last year were four times this amount. Their liabilities will be larger again

SSsssshhh!

(although Prime Time gave figures along those lines or higher)

Any idea what the total deposits in bank accounts (leaving aside complex instruments) are in the Irish banks?

Anyway, I've nought to worry, I'm a student and as long as they can refund my lunch money I'll be ok .

ISEQ is at 4002. Down over 130 so far.

Financials dragging it down they are about 370 lower at this moment.

Damn shorters must have got in some way

Auditor #9 wrote:

Damn shorters must have got in some way

Personally, I blame it on Joe Duffy.

Good grief! Down to 3757 and I haven't even had my morning constitutional. Trying to think of adjectives to go with Tuesday - Tremulous Tuesday- nah, Terrible Tuesday-nah. I've got it! Tergiversation Tuesday. Do you think it will catch on?

floatingingalway wrote:

Good grief! Down to 3757 and I haven't even had my morning constitutional. Trying to think of adjectives to go with Tuesday - Tremulous Tuesday- nah, Terrible Tuesday-nah. I've got it! Tergiversation Tuesday. Do you think it will catch on?

What about Turd Tuesday? Wonder how RTE etc. will treat this one? Can't blame the Shorts.

The way the ISEQ is it could bounce around all over the place. It is a small and volatile market over reliant on the Financial sector. Also construction will feel cuts in capital projects and general downturn will hit just about everyone.

FTSE 100 down about 1.5% See how the American markets open later.

Now at 3665 and falling

http://www.ise.ie/app/popup_graph.asp?INDEX_TYPE=O

Financials particularly bad down 585

http://www.ise.ie/app/popup_graph.asp?INDEX_TYPE=F

If Wall Street opens in the doldrums this will be a truely bad day.

DOW has opened on the up, but don't see that lasting. Could give a bit of a boost to the ISEQ this afternoon. So may end up simple a very bad day and not an utterly disastrous day.

The ISEQ is a truly volatile market.

Wonder how all the spin machines will waffle their way around this one?

I tolt ye, one follows the other

According to RTE, the Government, out and about at the Ploughing yesterday, are refusing to hold a debate on the economy. Such lack of leadership can't be helping the situation.

cactus flower wrote:

According to RTE, the Government, out and about at the Ploughing yesterday, are refusing to hold a debate on the economy. Such lack of leadership can't be helping the situation.

How can they refuse to have a debate? That's outrageous!
Can anyone put them out of our misery?

floatingingalway wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

According to RTE, the Government, out and about at the Ploughing yesterday, are refusing to hold a debate on the economy. Such lack of leadership can't be helping the situation.

How can they refuse to have a debate? That's outrageous!
Can anyone put them out of our misery?

They have managed to stay pretty well silent about the economy for the 12 months the ISEQ has taken to get from 10,000 down to less than 4,000, and employment up to nearly 8% (how long before we hear 12%?). Still, we have been promised a State of the Nation address by Cowen for some time now. Will he give it to the Dail or from in front of a football team? Or will he say that we will have to wait for the Budget?

Elaine Byrne wrote a good piece here - it was originally expected for September 15th at an FF think in, but the demand was then to speak in the Dail.

FF have been tending to more and more take business out of the Dail, so that they don't have to answer questions. Disrespect for democracy, in my book.

LINK TO IT

He'll probably be saying it in front of his bedroom mirror for a while because we all know, it's not what you say in politics, it's how you look when you're saying it.

Mara Carfagna- Italian minister for equality

cactus flower wrote:

FF have been tending to more and more take business out of the Dail, so that they don't have to answer questions. Disrespect for democracy, in my book.

LINK TO IT

International trend... Blair and Brown have been having unminuted cabinet meetings on Downing street sofas for years... and as for the US, check out all the posts about the companies that now don't have to tell anyone how bankrupt they are....emergency legislation, doncha lurrve it?? Accountability appears to be vanishing down the toilet bowl faster than we can say flush

As for our own lovely politicians, we should perhaps reserve judgement until after the accelerated Budget, as all the relevant Civil Service departments seems to be on overdrive. Will be interesting to see what the Brians have in store for us. Presumably FG and compadres on the opposition benches will get to heckle them then??

And, floatingingalway, please don't encourage them, I DO NOT want to see either Brian in skimpy black undies on Budget Day (or indeed at any other time.....).

Well that was an embarassing start to the day in the library!

Quote :

And, floatingingalway, please don't encourage them, I DO NOT want to see either Brian in skimpy black undies on Budget Day (or indeed at any other time....

Stop!!! My breakfast almost came up at the thoughts of that!