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 Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power

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PostSubject: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:02 am

Today the company Marine Current Turbines is lowering an undersea 'wind-turbine' into Strangford Lough where it will produce 1.2 MW of electricity - enough for 1000 homes they say.
Strangford Lough

The ESB are heavily involved having invested 4 million in the project. Now how soon will it be before the seal-lovers start whining and worse, the people who reckon the moon wil be affected if we put in more?

Painless 20-minute report on Morning Ireland, 1st April (seriously)
http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/




Some online resources:
http://www.oceanenergycouncil.com/index.php/Tidal-Energy/Tidal-Energy.html
Scottish Forum:
http://www.shetlink.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2546&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Last edited by Auditor #9 on Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:10 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:31 am

Quote :
Now how soon will it be before the seal-lovers start whining and worse, the people who reckon the moon wil be affected if we put in more?

Lord, but you're in a cynical mood this morning!

I imagine that the seal lovers (are there seals in Strangford Lough?) have made their concerns known before now.

And the Lunies are all busy canvassing for a No vote on Lisbon Wink

You're safe enough.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:43 am

Kate P wrote:
Lord, but you're in a cynical mood this morning!
I think I just passed a circadian peak Embarassed (that's on-topic isn't it?)

If you live near big harbours you are bound to spot the madranna uisce barking around under bridges and out on rocks... Ah the sea indeed.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:11 pm

As I understand it, the yokes won't spin fast enough to affect the many seals in the area.

But a thousand homes, that's nearly a town. A few thousand more and we're onto something! I was dissapointed to hear that this kind of technology has only amount to supply 10-20% of our energy needs. I thought it was much more.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:17 pm

Interesting.
I'm trying to find out two things about this, and I can't find either.
The total capital cost and a graph of projected capacity plotted against tides.

It does seem significantly more expensive than wind per MW, but it may be more constant.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:23 pm

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
Interesting.
I'm trying to find out two things about this, and I can't find either.
The total capital cost and a graph of projected capacity plotted against tides.

It does seem significantly more expensive than wind per MW, but it may be more constant.
'May'? Sorry, is there a problem with the moon that I should know about?

I won't pretend to know what the rest of that was about.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:31 pm

Am very excited about this bounce
An Irish report in the 1970s estimated 15% of current demand could be supplied by non tidal hydro.
Since then demand has risen but turbines have also got more efficient.
The long term factors to consider include predicted water shortages in the east of the country.
I have seen an old print of Waterford estuary lined with tidal mills. There are the ruins of over 200 mills along Kilkenny's rivers: some still contribute to the grid or run factories.

This has got to be an improvement over burning fossil fuels.

Number one should be energy conservation, zero energy solutions and reducing demands. I am convinced that far more could be done in this area and it is the only no-brainer.

Of the other solutions - water, wind and solar appear the least dangerous: is there any way these four measures combined could cover our needs?
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:58 pm

Neat animation here:
http://www.marineturbines.com/21/technology/32/seagen_video/

It looks like a pretty good design to me. I like these babies.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:24 pm

Yes, fab stuff though I look forward to looking at the figures when I get the time.

Funny seeing Hutton's photo on the website, the man is 100% dedicated to his job application for a nice little post-government earner in the nuclear industry.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:25 pm

Treehugger are saying that the turbine is still going through phases of being tested and has started to feed electricity in to the grid - link .

It has been tested at150 kw but will be constrained at 300 kw soon during a commissioning phase (??) but by the end of the summer it will be fully operational when it will emit 1.2 MW - enough to power 1140 homes. I doubt if tidal suffers from the variability that wind does so if the Brits reckon there is 15 gigawatts potential around their coasts (15000 MW - 14 million homes Shocked) I wonder what we have here? Half that?

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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:59 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Treehugger are saying that the turbine is still going through phases of being tested and has started to feed electricity in to the grid - link .

It has been tested at150 kw but will be constrained at 300 kw soon during a commissioning phase (??) but by the end of the summer it will be fully operational when it will emit 1.2 MW - enough to power 1140 homes. I doubt if tidal suffers from the variability that wind does so if the Brits reckon there is 15 gigawatts potential around their coasts (15000 MW - 14 million homes Shocked) I wonder what we have here? Half that?


Watched a programme recently in which the energy expert rubbished wind and said tidal is excellent for consistent delivery. I suppose the tides will go on coming in and out unless some extraordinary astronomic event disrupted them.

I still think there is a big role for wind power in Ireland. Eamon Ryan has agreed to reevaluate bio and Labour has come out in favour of a big reduction of our bio target. There was a guy on the radio yesterday talking about the difference in efficiency between batteries and fuel cells. http://www.fuelcells.org/basics/how.html
There are pro and anti fuels cell sites on the interweb. He said that hydrogen fuel cells could be powered by wind energy. If anyone knows about fuel cells and wanted to move this to another thread please feel free.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:28 pm

There are very strong and dangerous currents at the narrows in Strangford Lough. A considerable volume of water piles in and out every 12 hours or there abouts.

I wonder if this could be used with sea currents. If an adaptation could be used there are lots of possibilities for both types of installation around our coasts and estuaries.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:06 am

From Silicon Republic yesterday



Quote :
Irish renewable company makes breakthrough in tidal energy

11.09.2008
Irish renewable energy company OpenHydro has become the first company in the world to deploy a tidal turbine directly onto the sea-bed, validating the competitive potential of tidal energy.

OpenHydro’s vision for ocean energy is the development of farms of tidal turbines mounted on the seabed where no part of the structure is visible from the surface and which is deep enough not to interfere with shipping.

The subsea base and turbine were lowered onto the seabed at the European Marine Energy Centre (EMEC) in Orkney, Scotland by the custom-built heavy lift barge, the ‘OpenHydro Installer’. A €5m investment was involved.

“Being able to deploy tidal turbines in this manner turns a difficult and lengthy project of many months into a quick and cost-efficient single-day operation,” said Brendan Gilmore, chairman of OpenHydro.

“It is another major step forward in our technology development programme towards commercial tidal farms that produce energy at a highly economic cost.”

James Ives, chief executive of OpenHydro added: “Our experience has shown us that the appropriate equipment for installing tidal turbines does not exist in the marine market and so in 2007 we took the decision to commission our own specialist tidal turbine deployment barge.

“This deployment approach lays the foundation for the cost-effective installation of commercial tidal arrays.” Tidal Breakthrough - Silicon Republic
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:32 am

Excellent news.... keep up the good work. Saw an article recently re some engineers in Oxford thinking they could make tidal turbines more efficient. Here's hoping King Abdullah and Vlad's profits are about to take a hit
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:10 am

Squire wrote:
There are very strong and dangerous currents at the narrows in Strangford Lough. A considerable volume of water piles in and out every 12 hours or there abouts.

I wonder if this could be used with sea currents. If an adaptation could be used there are lots of possibilities for both types of installation around our coasts and estuaries.

I've seen old prints of Waterford City (1600-1700s ?) showing five or six tidal mills along the Suir estuary. Turbines are getting more efficient all the time. We have so much potential to gather this energy up. At the same time, it has to be done right environmentally.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:23 pm

This is exciting. the power densities are already the same as wind. It is only going to get better for tidal.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:35 pm

riven wrote:
This is exciting. the power densities are already the same as wind. It is only going to get better for tidal.


tidal is really really exciting for Ireland. bounce Unlike wind, it keeps going 24 hours a day 365 days a year.

Riven - did you see the report on the Irish guy who has invented a tidal powered desalination machine? Of course he could not get funding in Ireland and it has gone elsewhere. They are talking about the greening of the African coasts...
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:57 pm

I love you



The BBC

These three sea snakes produce 2.25 MW but cost 8.5 million. At least one went live today off the coast of Porto, Portugal. The cost should fall as they are produced more - who cares they're gorgeous!

Ireland is too special for a rake of these next to the Aran Islands of course - we can get by here perfectly fine by burning sheep dung and making crude oil out of grass..

Quote :
LISBON - The world's first commercial power plant converting the energy of sea waves into electricity started working off Portugal's coast on Tuesday in a project that should be expanded nearly 10-fold over the next few years.


Three articulated steel "sea-snakes" moored to the seabed three miles off Portugal's northern coast, each about the length of a nuclear submarine, generate a total of 2.25 megawatts, enough to supply 1,500 households with electricity.

"It's logged into the national grid, which makes it the world's first commercial wave power project," said Anthony Kennaway, a spokesman for Babcock and Brown investment firm which runs the Agucadoura project in northern Portugal.

This first phase of the project cost about 8.5 million euros (US$12.55 million).

Agucadoura's capacity is a drop in the ocean compared to over 2,000 megawatts in installed wind turbines in the country, while the cost of this energy is way higher than wind or conventional energy sources.

"The price is not competitive at the moment and the project was possible because of the feed-in tariff in Portugal, which basically allows (us) to continue developing the technology ... But we hope that in 15 years wave power will be where wind is now, that is extremely competitive."

"Portugal could be for wave power what Denmark was for wind," Kennaway said.


WAVES OF PORTUGAL

In a sign things may be looking up for wave power, Portugal's main energy company EDP and engineering firm EFACEC each took a 15.4 percent stake in the project. Babcock, which has been trying to sell its European energy assets to boost liquidity, reduced its share to 46.2 percent from 75 percent and Scottish firm Pelamis Wave Power, which makes the wave converters, to 23 percent from 25 percent.

EDP, which is an active player in wind power, Babcock and EFACEC also set up a joint company called "Waves of Portugal" to focus on the development of experimental wave energy projects.

Renewable energy, including water dams, accounts for 40 percent of power consumption in Portugal. Some experts say wave energy could meet up to 20 percent of the country's needs in the future.

Feed-in tariffs provide long-term incentives to invest in renewable energy. Under this system used in many countries national power utilities are ordered by governments to buy, or feed in, from renewable energy sources at above market rates. These rates vary depending on the capital cost and commercial maturity of each technology. The Agucadoura project is supported by a specific feed-in tariff equivalent to approximately 0.23 euros per kWh.

A total of 25 semi-submerged "sea-snakes" should be installed in the next few years, boosting the wave park capacity to 21 MW, Kennaway said. The machines, each 140 meters (yards) long and 3.5 meters in diameter, are positioned head-on towards the waves so that its sections move with the waves.

Each joint of the Pelamis contains a hydraulic pump, which pumps high-pressure liquid through motors that in their turn drive power generators. The energy is then transmitted to a substation on shore via subsea cables.
Planet Ark
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:00 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
I love you



Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:15 pm



Scotland about to get a flagship 1MW project worth of the Tidal Turbines above and then possibly 60 MWs from a few fields combined. From New Energy Focus:

Quote :
ScottishPower Renewables has announced it is investigating three sites in Scotland and Northern Ireland for potential deployment of its 1MW flagship tidal stream device "Lànstrøm".

The proposed installations, which have the combined potential to generate 60MW of energy, are being hailed as the largest tidal stream project in the world by its developers, following a four year testing regime in Norway.

At present, two of the sites are being planned in Scotland, in the Pentland Firth and the Sound of Islay, with the third off the North Antrim coast in Northern Ireland.

Each site is being evaluated with a view to installing between five and 20 Lànstrøm turbines. With each turbine having an installed capacity of 1MW, this could lead to a combined output of 60MW, which is enough energy to power 40,000 homes.

ScottishPower Renewables is expected to submit planning applications to the Scottish Government and Northern Irish Assembly in summer 2009.

Furthermore, the company claims that if permission is granted, the projects could be operational by 2011.

A good little report in Clean Technica too on it -

Quote :
Scotland Plans World’s First Tidal Turbine Farms



The two projects, which each include 20 underwater turbines, will be finished within three years and will provide power to 40,000 homes.

ScottishPower Renewables will apply for planning permission next year to build the two farms in Northern Ireland’s seabed. The turbines will be manufactured in Scotland in an intentional boost to the country’s green-collar job market.

The 98-foot structures have been tested to operate in water as deep as 328 feet, and they spin slow enough to allow marine life to avoid the 66-foot blades. Most boats and ships would not be affected by the farms since the turbines won’t even reach 30-feet below the surface, but net-towing trawlers will be forbidden from the area.

“Tidal power is completely renewable, being driven by the gravity of the sun and moon, with no carbon dioxide emissions, plus the added benefit of being entirely predictable,” said Keith Anderson, the director of ScottishPower Renewables. The farms would help Scotland attain its goal to reduce its carbon footprint by 80% by 2050.

New York City installed its first turbine for their tidal power farm earlier this month, but the Scottish plan differs in that the farms will be located in the open sea, not a river or straight.
http://cleantechnica.com/2008/09/29/scotland-plans-worlds-first-tidal-turbine-farms/
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:35 pm

That is an interesting project. There are strong currents of the coast of Scotland and NI especially where the currents are funnelled by islands. It will be a real engineering achievement as the terrain is extremely hostile. hope it goes well.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:40 pm

Some more information here about how very good conditions are for Ireland to use tidal energy - 70 % of our total needs, its says here.

http://www.smartplanet.com/news/business/10000957/ireland-eyes-the-power-of-its-rough-seas.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:03 pm

cactus flower wrote:
riven wrote:
This is exciting. the power densities are already the same as wind. It is only going to get better for tidal.


tidal is really really exciting for Ireland. bounce Unlike wind, it keeps going 24 hours a day 365 days a year.

Riven - did you see the report on the Irish guy who has invented a tidal powered desalination machine? Of course he could not get funding in Ireland and it has gone elsewhere. They are talking about the greening of the African coasts...

There are a number of technologies you could be refering to but the most likely is osmotic power plant/salinity gradient power. This produces power, purer water and saltier water. I do not see this as being a viable power source unless pure water and power are both necessary so this could be good technology to replace or retrofit current desalination plants. Hence for Ireland I do not see it happening.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:37 pm

Its for desalination, not for energy production: desalination plants previously were a notoriously high user of non-renewable energy.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean, Wave and Tidal Power   Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:10 pm

Quote :
14 January, 2009 14:00 CET
Vattenfall prepares for ocean energy farms in Ireland

Vattenfall has acquired 51 % of the Irish site development company for ocean energy, Pandion Ltd, for EUR 500,000 (around SEK 5 million). The ocean energy developer Wavebob Ltd will hold the remaining 49 % of Pandion and the agreement brings opportunities for further partners to participate.

Pandion has applied for ocean energy sites on the west coast of Ireland, which will be developed for dem-onstration to a commercial size, over 250 MW electricity, when it is technically and economically viable. For Vattenfall the investment in Pandion is a first step towards a leading position on the emerging ocean energy market, fully in line with its planned investments in sustainable energy solutions.

“Ocean energy has large potential to contribute to the implementation of Vattenfall’s climate vision to be climate neutral by 2050. It is important for us to reach our growth targets, which are based on renewables, nuclear power and coal with CCS technology,” says Lars G Josefsson, President and CEO of Vattenfall.

Helmar Rendez, senior vice president Vattenfall AB, explains:

“Ireland’s exceptional wave climate, extensive support schemes, strong political support and appointed areas for exploitation of ocean energy makes establishment there favourable. Quick consent processes are foreseen and Vattenfall has an interest to stimulate the development of the market as well as the technical development. We will remain independent from technology suppliers, and Pandion is technology neutral. The technologies must be further developed and optimised, and the power system concepts need to be integrated, before the technology can be commercially introduced. Establishment of sites with a potential to grow to commercial sites is important for us to support such a development.”

http://www.cisionwire.com/vattenfall/vattenfall-prepares-for-ocean-energy-farms-in-ireland
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