Consult on Greater Dublin Transport Vision

Auditor #9 wrote:

Yes it's the simplest. I like the flexibility of using GPS too if a rush-hour penalty was deemed useful... I don't know though...

That's already built in. If you travel in rush hour, you use more fuel because the engine is running for longer. Unless you wish to push it down the M50. A fuel based road tax would add to the motivation to find a way to travelling outside of rush hour. Or even working from home etc...

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Yes it's the simplest. I like the flexibility of using GPS too if a rush-hour penalty was deemed useful... I don't know though...

That's already built in. If you travel in rush hour, you use more fuel because the engine is running for longer. Unless you wish to push it down the M50. A fuel based road tax would add to the motivation to find a way to travelling outside of rush hour. Or even working from home etc...

I think I'm in agreement with you completely now. In this plan our road tax goes and petrol goes up then by the national pooled amount from yours, mine, cactus and kates tax? ibis is laughing having a bike (but twenty servers in his kitchen )

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Or even working from home etc...

I'm sure alot of people would like to do that but alot of Irish companies are very backwards in terms of organising themselves so that their staff can efficiently work from home. Half my family lives in the UK and half in Ireland - pretty much all the UK based side do at least part of their weekly working routine from home. None of my relations here do.

A deeper discussion on that would require another thread really.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Yes it's the simplest. I like the flexibility of using GPS too if a rush-hour penalty was deemed useful... I don't know though...

That's already built in. If you travel in rush hour, you use more fuel because the engine is running for longer. Unless you wish to push it down the M50. A fuel based road tax would add to the motivation to find a way to travelling outside of rush hour. Or even working from home etc...

It would also encourage people to run more economical vehicles.

Would you give exemptions to anyone though? Doctors, food transportation? Public transport? taxis? An Post and School transport ? - btw did anyone notice there is a crisis brewing on the school bus system as the private operators contracted to CIE can't afford to run the present service due to petrol price increases?

Maybe it isn't so straightforward after all.

I work from home and I think so does Ibis - it gives me an extra 8 hours free a week or I wouldn't have time to be here

Auditor #9 wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Yes it's the simplest. I like the flexibility of using GPS too if a rush-hour penalty was deemed useful... I don't know though...

That's already built in. If you travel in rush hour, you use more fuel because the engine is running for longer. Unless you wish to push it down the M50. A fuel based road tax would add to the motivation to find a way to travelling outside of rush hour. Or even working from home etc...

I think I'm in agreement with you completely now. In this plan our road tax goes and petrol goes up then by the national pooled amount from yours, mine, cactus and kates tax? ibis is laughing having a bike (but twenty servers in his kitchen )

I suspect Ibis' ESB bill reflects the amount of servers in his kitchen, the efficiency of their power supplies and how long he leaves them on. Which is fair enough imho.

The same fairness is not applied to someone who only uses their car on a Sunday to drive the Granny up to Tuamgraney for a scone and cup of tea.

You need a Granny like me - she causes half of Europe's carbon footprint.

johnfás wrote:

You need a Granny like me - she causes half of Europe's carbon footprint.

I wasn't referring to any one specific Granny. Just the notion of a Granny.

Both of mine are very much carbon neutral, and have been for some time.

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Yes it's the simplest. I like the flexibility of using GPS too if a rush-hour penalty was deemed useful... I don't know though...

That's already built in. If you travel in rush hour, you use more fuel because the engine is running for longer. Unless you wish to push it down the M50. A fuel based road tax would add to the motivation to find a way to travelling outside of rush hour. Or even working from home etc...

I think I'm in agreement with you completely now. In this plan our road tax goes and petrol goes up then by the national pooled amount from yours, mine, cactus and kates tax? ibis is laughing having a bike (but twenty servers in his kitchen )

I suspect Ibis' ESB bill reflects the amount of servers in his kitchen, the efficiency of their power supplies and how long he leaves them on. Which is fair enough imho.

The same fairness is not applied to someone who only uses their car on a Sunday to drive the Granny up to Tuamgraney for a scone and cup of tea.

I have no bike, actually. I walk or use public transport (and have done my whole adult life!). I have only 2 always-on machines, but, to be fair to me, that represents both home and work, whereas most people would be comparing only their home usage while working in incredibly energy-inefficient offices...

ibis wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Yes it's the simplest. I like the flexibility of using GPS too if a rush-hour penalty was deemed useful... I don't know though...

That's already built in. If you travel in rush hour, you use more fuel because the engine is running for longer. Unless you wish to push it down the M50. A fuel based road tax would add to the motivation to find a way to travelling outside of rush hour. Or even working from home etc...

I think I'm in agreement with you completely now. In this plan our road tax goes and petrol goes up then by the national pooled amount from yours, mine, cactus and kates tax? ibis is laughing having a bike (but twenty servers in his kitchen )

I suspect Ibis' ESB bill reflects the amount of servers in his kitchen, the efficiency of their power supplies and how long he leaves them on. Which is fair enough imho.

The same fairness is not applied to someone who only uses their car on a Sunday to drive the Granny up to Tuamgraney for a scone and cup of tea.

I have no bike, actually. I walk or use public transport (and have done my whole adult life!). I have only 2 always-on machines, but, to be fair to me, that represents both home and work, whereas most people would be comparing only their home usage while working in incredibly energy-inefficient offices...

Indeed. I wasn't trying to be unfair to you Ibis, just using your servers as an analogy for pay per use as opposed to pay per annum . I could equally have used Auditor's telephone..

I walk to work because I can afford a house near the city centre. People who are less well off (touch wood) are forced out into the commuter belt and other areas poorly served by the public transport infrastructure. This particularly applies to people with children who need a couple of extra bedrooms.

Lumping more tax on the distance commuter has a touch of "Let them eat cake" about it. Surely a person who is tied into a long commute but makes the effort to get an energy efficient car should pay less tax than the wealthy suburbanite living within a couple of miles of St Stephen's Green who swans around in high performance babe magnet?

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

I walk to work because I can afford a house near the city centre. People who are less well off (touch wood) are forced out into the commuter belt and other areas poorly served by the public transport infrastructure. This particularly applies to people with children who need a couple of extra bedrooms.

Lumping more tax on the distance commuter has a touch of "Let them eat cake" about it. Surely a person who is tied into a long commute but makes the effort to get an energy efficient car should pay less tax than the wealthy suburbanite living within a couple of miles of St Stephen's Green who swans around in high performance babe magnet?

Not if the amount of environmental damage done by the latter is less than the former. This isn't a sumptuary law.

It's still a bit harsh for my liking. There is little to no quality of life for many young people trying to start a family while commuting from the hinterlands. The national dream of full employment has them shattered stressed and away from their children.

To lump another tax on them without seeing whether they have a choice in the matter would be heaping cruelty on top of cruelty. Now, for the luxury of procreation with a garden they will be told to choose between (i) a three hour daily commute plus punitive taxes or (iii) a four hour daily commute including some walking in the rain time, waiting for the bus/train time and some getting coughed on and dirty time or (iv) asking your employer for a raise to compensate for this expense.

The fact of the matter is that commuters are a definite interest group so they won't be screwed in this way. Talk of a punitive tax rate on commuters and rural dwellers is fantasy at this stage. Let the Greens roll out their public transport plans and then we can talk again. If income taxes need to be raised for this purpose then so be it.

By the way, I am all for a tax rebate for those who give a little back by bringing their Gran out for a spin.

Perhaps your long distance commuters could reduce their travel costs some way Zhou? run the Slug or other car-share system - liberalise the bus services - the current situation where people have to join a club to get a commuter bus to Dublin from Naas, is crazy, yes? Allow cars with 4 passengers the use of taxi and bus lanes?

Another way of reducing the burden of car/oil tax would be to stop building massive road schemes until the dust settles and it becomes clear whether there is a viable alternative to oil. Invest in the crushed and miserable commuter rail services and make room for many times more to drive to their nearest railway station and get the luas, taxi or bus to the City Centre.

The long distance commuters are scuppered anyway unless we do some of these things, with oil prices the way they are going.

I would be happy to open bus-lanes and I think investing in rail infrastructure is a must.

Roads won't be abandoned. There will be replacements for oil even if some take longer to come than others. when they come we wil need the roads. In the meantime, they are needed so we can tread water.

We could look at subsidizing the bus service more an opening up hard shoulders on existing roads. If we don't want to employ staff directly then we could subsidize the private operators so that we get the frequency of service that we need. The benefits in national competitiveness, infrastructure and environmental savings will be made by all so why not fund it from the exchequer? Isn't "paying the pollution saver" the natural corrollary of "the polluter pays" principle?

We could also provide a more frequent service in the early and late mornings and early and late evenings so that people can be more flexible in their work times without driving. The person who works past 6.30pm is a pariah as far as Dublin Bus is concerned.

All cars should be marked with their fuel consumption for peer pressure purposes.

Student car parking should be prohibited in all secondary schools and Universities unless you commute more than 10 miles or are a mother. It should be banned in the environs too.

Park and Ride facilities should be free once you purchase/validate a train/luas/bus ticket.

Safe cycle only lanes (inaccessible by cars or pedestrians) should be put in place nationwide particularly where same can serve schools.

cactus flower wrote:

Anyone got any suggestions about what to do with all the unwanted central multi-storey car parking spaces when the cars have stopped coming into the centre?

Internment camps for the undesirable in society.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Anyone got any suggestions about what to do with all the unwanted central multi-storey car parking spaces when the cars have stopped coming into the centre?

Internment camps for the undesirable in society.

I knew I could count on you for an egalitarian response, Ard Taoiseach - the undesirables would have some of the best addresses in Dublin.

cactus flower wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Anyone got any suggestions about what to do with all the unwanted central multi-storey car parking spaces when the cars have stopped coming into the centre?

Internment camps for the undesirable in society.

I knew I could count on you for an egalitarian response, Ard Taoiseach - the undesirables would have some of the best addresses in Dublin.

Exactly, their post would be like:

Prisoner: CE 123987
Class: Sub-Dinaric
Address: DeeFawr

Maybe a place for those who have fallen foul of the Tribunals when the day of reckoning comes...

cactus flower wrote:

Maybe a place for those who have fallen foul of the Tribunals when the day of reckoning comes...

Yep. I have that circled on my calendar btw.

I might also turn one of the multi-storeys into my city centre lair. One can never have too many residences!

I have a local blog against a lightrail project. What are the organizations involved in Dublin 2030 at the moment? The Greens?