Gaybo Says No - Will the People Say Yes?

Helium Three wrote:

We can but try Hermes.

Gaybo has got the general point. That's a start.

Gaybo ? Any chance of a link ?

Gay Byrne, in his column in the Sunday Independent (Living section p13) last Sunday May 18th:

I'm voting "No" in this Lisbon Referendum. The whole thing is so sneaky, dishonest, under-handed and sinister that I now have neither faith nor trust in the whole approach.

I don't believe a word from the mouths of any of the Yes brigade and I have deep scepticism about any of their promises or undertakings. What we're being asked to vote on is a series of amendments to amendments to revisions to an existing Constitution and I agree with Ulick McEvaddy that the entire thing is unintelligible bilge -- and designed to be so to further obfuscate the issue.

There are 145 pages of this stuff and 132 more of "protocols" plus 50 declarations and -- this is the clincher -- they all supersede every law of the 27 member states.

I am not a member of Libertas or any other grouping of any kind, and I am deeply embarrassed and offended to find myself on the same side as anyone in Sinn Fein about anything, but that's how it is.

It matters little to me, for I'll be dead and gone before this totalitarian superstate really takes over everything, but I feel desperately sorry for my grandchildren that certifiable lunatics in Brussels will dictate every single aspect of their lives. Remember that fat slug, Prodi, when the Irish people voted No to Maastricht? "The Irish voted No? Well, they can go right back and vote again, and keep on voting, until they get it right -- with a Yes!" And when the French and Dutch voted No, remember Mr Verheugen, Commission Vice-President, declared: "We will not give in to blackmail." Blackmail! This is democracy, Europe-style.

One other thing I'll guarantee: within six months of Ireland voting Yes, our special corporate tax rate will be gone, not because of "harmonisation" but because of "competition barriers". And our veto? We'll be none too politely told to stick it you know where and whistle Dixie to it.

It's utterly pointless, useless and pathetic, I know, and it will count for nothing, but this little chap is voting No.
....

He mixes up the names Maastricht and Nice but you get the drift.

Gay Byrne wrote:

....It's utterly pointless, useless and pathetic, I know, and it will count for nothing, but this little chap is voting No.
....

This is the bit that really irks me. Even if you are opposed to the direction Europe is going, the proponents of the Treaty have successfully convinced people that the EU is a fait accomplis and voting No will change nothing except to lessen Ireland's standing. We are being told that we are being asked to vote on a change to the most important set of laws and rules which bind us, i.e. the constitution, but that really how we vote is irrelevant. I have to say, the argument is convincing and it is probably irrelevant how we vote making voting no "pointless, useless and pathetic". Why bother? Resistance is Futile, We will Assimilate, We Will Assimilate.

Helium Three wrote:

Gay Byrne, in his column in the Sunday Independent (Living section p13) last Sunday May 18th:

I'm voting "No" in this Lisbon Referendum. The whole thing is so sneaky, dishonest, under-handed and sinister that I now have neither faith nor trust in the whole approach.

I don't believe a word from the mouths of any of the Yes brigade and I have deep scepticism about any of their promises or undertakings. What we're being asked to vote on is a series of amendments to amendments to revisions to an existing Constitution and I agree with Ulick McEvaddy that the entire thing is unintelligible bilge -- and designed to be so to further obfuscate the issue.

There are 145 pages of this stuff and 132 more of "protocols" plus 50 declarations and -- this is the clincher -- they all supersede every law of the 27 member states.

I am not a member of Libertas or any other grouping of any kind, and I am deeply embarrassed and offended to find myself on the same side as anyone in Sinn Fein about anything, but that's how it is.

It matters little to me, for I'll be dead and gone before this totalitarian superstate really takes over everything, but I feel desperately sorry for my grandchildren that certifiable lunatics in Brussels will dictate every single aspect of their lives. Remember that fat slug, Prodi, when the Irish people voted No to Maastricht? "The Irish voted No? Well, they can go right back and vote again, and keep on voting, until they get it right -- with a Yes!" And when the French and Dutch voted No, remember Mr Verheugen, Commission Vice-President, declared: "We will not give in to blackmail." Blackmail! This is democracy, Europe-style.

One other thing I'll guarantee: within six months of Ireland voting Yes, our special corporate tax rate will be gone, not because of "harmonisation" but because of "competition barriers". And our veto? We'll be none too politely told to stick it you know where and whistle Dixie to it.

It's utterly pointless, useless and pathetic, I know, and it will count for nothing, but this little chap is voting No.
....

He mixes up the names Maastricht and Nice but you get the drift.

Is that what they call a 'senior moment'?

The previous 4 posts probably belong on the lisbon yes or no thread.

Yeah its an interesting one alright - it hasn't gained the traction that many on the No side were praying for and some on the No side feared and might actually have done some harm.

I've been out canvassing the last 3 evening in a row now and out of roughly 250 households done so far - it was mentioned twice - both in a negative light for Mr Byrne - both ladies were appalled at it - not so much the content - but the tone and mealy mouthed language used disgusted them -
they had thought more of him - maybe the mask is slipping for Gaybo - I dont know. Even me ma - who has been voting no since 1972 was very snippy about it and the No campaign in general - me thinks I might actually persuade her to vote yes yet (Particularly after I brought her to hear Pat Cox speaking the other night - she is in love with the man - has dreams about him - freaky!)

Overall compared to 3 weeks ago - the political temperature is getting noticeably warmer for Yes canvassers - particularly over the last week and a half or so - We are getting a good reception on the doorstep and are being asked to debunk the No camp literature which we are doing with aplomb - ran into the Labour guys the other night and they are getting the same reception - there is a real hunger for information and explanation out there and they are willing on the Yes campaign to provide it.

Last night was a good night - admittedly helped by the fact a particular grouping of the No campaign had been round about 20 minutes before us and had provoked a mixture of disbelief and hilarity among the citizens - they showed me the literature that they were given - a 30 page document that was barely legible ,in multiple fonts, tons of quotes from various obscure politicos from a manual cut and paste photocopied on a 1982 shagged out Minolta - the contents composed almost 90% of "alleged" US war crimes in Serbia and Kosovo - tons about Iraq - about 5% was actually about the EU - allegedly we will chipping our newborns by 2014 - if we are allowed have them - with the widespread abortion coming in, under orders from our Bilderberg masters, we will have to apply for permission to have children subject to Genetic tests - the plan for this is ready to start rolling out in a transitional fashion from the start of next year - and then the "piece de resistance" - for all those who disagree there are concentration and detention centres being built - 3 apparently so far - 1 in Germany, 1 in Austria and one in Britain...............................I couldn't make this shit up if I tried and I pride myself in having one of the most vivid and perverted imaginations going! - keep it up guys - viva la revolution or whatever - you're are making my job easier.

Admittedly that may appear an extreme example -but these are the groups who are going door to door - not the more "repectable" elements like Libertas who are purely a media machine - this referendum will be decided on a door to door basis and the love you show for them when you get there. Neutrality is not really an issue in DSE - even the Greenies know it isnt - I spent a good hour with 4 Green voting couples at the last GE explaining our whole neutrality position - which was necessary as SF and Labour had been going around presenting Lucinda as the next evil queen of Narnia.

We are coming into the final run and its is only now that people are deciding to start thinking about the whole Lisbon thingy and its importance and the door to door canvassing , particularly if you have your local TD or councillor in tow will reap benefits - the sector of the electorate that will decide the destiny of Lisbon will be the 30-65 age group and thus you have to prepare to sell to them , and this is where I believe the No camp are falling down - sending out unshaven badly dressed students with a serious desire to ram the most statements down your throat as fast as possible in the most hysterial fashion probably works on the campus - but in middleclass suburbs in the evening after work - it doesnt quite cut it - I know Ive been canvassed myself by at least 4 no groups so far and they are so predictably bad at canvassing that unless they are talking to a true believer they will put off twice as many as they will convert - just an observatiobn and I have worked on 4 election winning campaigns in my short life so far so I have learned a few things.

Im rambling and its back to work time.

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

The previous 4 posts probably belong on the lisbon yes or no thread.

Yeah - you're probably right and mine too aswell

Can one of the lovely mods here do the necessary and move it to one of the Lisbon threads?

Edo wrote:

Yeah its an interesting one alright - it hasn't gained the traction that many on the No side were praying for and some on the No side feared and might actually have done some harm.

Without some reliable survey on the impact of the article it would be impossible to know surely?

Quote :

I've been out canvassing the last 3 evening in a row now and out of roughly 250 households done so far - it was mentioned twice - both in a negative light for Mr Byrne - both ladies were appalled at it - not so much the content - but the tone and mealy mouthed language used disgusted them -
they had thought more of him - maybe the mask is slipping for Gaybo - I dont know. Even me ma - who has been voting no since 1972 was very snippy about it and the No campaign in general - me thinks I might actually persuade her to vote yes yet (Particularly after I brought her to hear Pat Cox speaking the other night - she is in love with the man - has dreams about him - freaky!)

Only two negative mentions? I suspect that when confronted by a yes campaigner most no voters prefer not to get into a face-to-face argument and unless you specifically asked everyone you called to whether they had seen and were influenced by what Byrne wrote, your mother's reaction - likely to be a somewhat biased example if I may say so - is not really persuasive proof of what you claim.

Quote :

Overall compared to 3 weeks ago - the political temperature is getting noticeably warmer for Yes canvassers - particularly over the last week and a half or so - We are getting a good reception on the doorstep and are being asked to debunk the No camp literature which we are doing with aplomb - ran into the Labour guys the other night and they are getting the same reception - there is a real hunger for information and explanation out there and they are willing on the Yes campaign to provide it.

Well, equally anecdotally, my experience is the exact opposite - the more people look at this Treaty the more they appear to dislike and mistrust it. I'm basing this on the comments of an audience at a series of documentary screenings Ive been running where I live. Not exact science, but comparable.

Quote :

Last night was a good night - admittedly helped by the fact a particular grouping of the No campaign had been round about 20 minutes before us and had provoked a mixture of disbelief and hilarity among the citizens - they showed me the literature that they were given - a 30 page document that was barely legible ,in multiple fonts, tons of quotes from various obscure politicos from a manual cut and paste photocopied on a 1982 shagged out Minolta - the contents composed almost 90% of "alleged" US war crimes in Serbia and Kosovo - tons about Iraq - about 5% was actually about the EU - allegedly we will chipping our newborns by 2014 - if we are allowed have them - with the widespread abortion coming in, under orders from our Bilderberg masters, we will have to apply for permission to have children subject to Genetic tests - the plan for this is ready to start rolling out in a transitional fashion from the start of next year - and then the "piece de resistance" - for all those who disagree there are concentration and detention centres being built - 3 apparently so far - 1 in Germany, 1 in Austria and one in Britain...............................I couldn't make this shit up if I tried and I pride myself in having one of the most vivid and perverted imaginations going! - keep it up guys - viva la revolution or whatever - you're are making my job easier.

You don't have to make anything up. Here is a council of Europe report on the use of secret detention centres in member states:

http://www.coe.int/T/E/Com/Files/Events/2006-cia/

Anyone who does not know that Bilderburg is a very real and influential organisation must have their head in the sand up to their hind quarters!

Here's one of hundreds of available articles and information pieces on Bilderberg by journalists the world over by the very reputable South American journalist Pepe Escobar - inlcuding a quote from Rockefeller, one of Bilderburg's founder members:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3092

As a campaigner for rights for people with disability who has done a lot of research into this issue I can also assure you that there is no exaggeration in the assertions that the long-term solution to disability - which is seen as a massive draw on public expenditure - is indeed being steered in the direction of antenatal genetic screening and abortion. I'll bring links back here when I have more time.

Quote :

We are coming into the final run and its is only now that people are deciding to start thinking about the whole Lisbon thingy and its importance and the door to door canvassing , particularly if you have your local TD or councillor in tow will reap benefits - the sector of the electorate that will decide the destiny of Lisbon will be the 30-65 age group and thus you have to prepare to sell to them , and this is where I believe the No camp are falling down - sending out unshaven badly dressed students with a serious desire to ram the most statements down your throat as fast as possible in the most hysterial fashion probably works on the campus - but in middleclass suburbs in the evening after work - it doesnt quite cut it - I know Ive been canvassed myself by at least 4 no groups so far and they are so predictably bad at canvassing that unless they are talking to a true believer they will put off twice as many as they will convert - just an observatiobn and I have worked on 4 election winning campaigns in my short life so far so I have learned a few things.

Im rambling and its back to work time.

Ermm, well , you said it!!!

Aragon. What are you on about. There could never be detainment camps or concentration camps. You are imagining things. However I know tons of lads who were rounded up and thrown into INTERNMENT camps just a few miles up the road from you.
Then you start rambling about Bilderbergs. I heard about them. One of their top members is a guy with an Irish sounding name Peter Sutherland. I think he is the head of British Petroleum. A bit like Dick Cheney is here. If what you believe is true then this guy would be out campaigning. I doubt it he is a busy man why would he be interested. http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/globalists_gather.html
It is all in your head Aragon

The Bilderbergs isn't a secret organisation. It is simply an organisation that facilitates the top movers and shakers in the World economy to get together and discuss the issues that face them all. As far as I know, it is an overblown summer school.

When did Gay Byrne start referring to people as "fat slug"? And who are these "certifiable lunatics in Brussels"?

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

The Bilderbergs isn't a secret organisation. It is simply an organisation that facilitates the top movers and shakers in the World economy to get together and discuss the issues that face them all. As far as I know, it is an overblown summer school.

I was always under that impression meself - if it really was a secret conspiracy to take over the world you can be damn sure nobody would know about it.

Still if it keeps the Conspiracy addicts happy who am I to rain on their parade..........................but if you want to discuss it in more detail - start another thread!

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

When did Gay Byrne start referring to people as "fat slug"? And who are these "certifiable lunatics in Brussels"?

Yeah classy stuff isnt it - couldnt believe it when I saw it meself - By all means say you are voting no and encourage people to vote no - its a free press - but the language used was something else and is not what his biggest fanclub are used to - first I thought there had been a typo on the byeline cos I just couldn't see Gaybo using language like this - even Kevin Myers at his most vehement wouldn't stoop to this - maybe there was a ghostwriter -Gay called in the column and the Subby decided to take some poetic licence with it.

It has not gone down well on the doorstep - then again few people enough have noticed it.

Aragon - you mightnt have noticed my previous thread on canvassing for the lisbon treaty - but I call it as I see it (see Payback time- lisbon - payback for Nice - it got a little bit of attention here and elsewhere) and I was commenting that the mood has changed over the last week and a bit from a fair amount of hostility and concern over immigration to more of "tell me more and can you explain this to me - and what does this mean and what does this entail" - happens in every campaign - the closer to the date - the more the electorate start to look seriously at what is in front of them - and all I was saying is that for the Yes canvasser it is a lot more pleasant and satisfying going around at the moment - still think that its a 50/50 game -every thing is still up for grabs.

Maybe Gaybo read my posts because fat slug is one of my terms of endearment. Maybe I am Gaybo.
Anyway it is good to know that big oil is not running the show and that the lads that told me they were interned without trial were lying.