cactus flower wrote:

Any views on Brian Lenihan's form and how he will deal with the difficult job he has just been given?

He doesn't have much "form" to speak of. He was confirmed as Minister for State for Children only 3 years ago and has only been Minister for JELR for a year. It'll be interesting to watch Budget 2009. Fiscal austerity, here we come!

Rectitude, flair, creativity, imagination, financial acumen and thoroughness - would those be his qualities ?

cactus flower wrote:

Rectitude, flair, creativity, imagination, financial acumen and thoroughness - would those be his qualities ?

In varying degrees.

905 wrote:

I hear a lot of talk of senators being promoted to cabinet, what senators would ye like to see there?

Senator John Crown, Minister for Health

DeGaulle wrote:

905 wrote:

I hear a lot of talk of senators being promoted to cabinet, what senators would ye like to see there?

Senator John Crown, Minister for Health

Agreed. and

Michael O'Leary, Transport

cactus flower wrote:

DeGaulle wrote:

905 wrote:

I hear a lot of talk of senators being promoted to cabinet, what senators would ye like to see there?

Senator John Crown, Minister for Health

Agreed. and

Michael O'Leary, Transport

I'm not entirely sure about that ... although I think the PDs should have offered him a Seanad seat after the last election. Given that they are doomed, better give it to someone who embodies PD values rather than waste the Seanad seats on no-hopers.

Do you think the Seanad is in any way influential?

cactus flower wrote:

Do you think the Seanad is in any way influential?

I think you have more influence as a Senator than as an ordinary citizen.

DeGaulle wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Do you think the Seanad is in any way influential?

I think you have more influence as a Senator than as an ordinary citizen.

I would have to agree that Michael O'Leary's attempts at influencing Government policy do not seem to have too much success. His main influence has been on passengers and on other airline operators.

DeGaulle wrote:

905 wrote:

I hear a lot of talk of senators being promoted to cabinet, what senators would ye like to see there?

Senator John Crown, Minister for Health

The Minister for Health doesn't actually perform operations and administer treatment, you know.

I don't get the whole John Crown thing. Seems like a bit of self-publicist to me, particularly in relation to that incident when he was 'censored' re. the Late Late.

If he thinks he can fix the health service, why doesn't he stand for the Dail? Plenty of doctors do.

Presumably because its easier to be fawned upon by the likes of Pat Kenny.

seinfeld wrote:

DeGaulle wrote:

905 wrote:

I hear a lot of talk of senators being promoted to cabinet, what senators would ye like to see there?

Senator John Crown, Minister for Health

The Minister for Health doesn't actually perform operations and administer treatment, you know.

I don't get the whole John Crown thing. Seems like a bit of self-publicist to me, particularly in relation to that incident when he was 'censored' re. the Late Late.

If he thinks he can fix the health service, why doesn't he stand for the Dail? Plenty of doctors do.

Presumably because its easier to be fawned upon by the likes of Pat Kenny.

Are you happy with Harney, Seinfeld? It is a cliché, but we do have a Herod and Baby situation there, don't we?

cactus flower wrote:

seinfeld wrote:

DeGaulle wrote:

905 wrote:

I hear a lot of talk of senators being promoted to cabinet, what senators would ye like to see there?

Senator John Crown, Minister for Health

The Minister for Health doesn't actually perform operations and administer treatment, you know.

I don't get the whole John Crown thing. Seems like a bit of self-publicist to me, particularly in relation to that incident when he was 'censored' re. the Late Late.

If he thinks he can fix the health service, why doesn't he stand for the Dail? Plenty of doctors do.

Presumably because its easier to be fawned upon by the likes of Pat Kenny.

Are you happy with Harney, Seinfeld? It is a cliché, but we do have a Herod and Baby situation there, don't we?

Don't know what you mean about Herod and Baby, but yes, I am happy with Harney, because since she took over, the Health Service has started to improve across all the key metrics.

I expect things to improve still further now that we have a Taoiseach who doesn't pee in his pants every time he's confronted with a Trade Union.

seinfeld wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

seinfeld wrote:

DeGaulle wrote:

905 wrote:

I hear a lot of talk of senators being promoted to cabinet, what senators would ye like to see there?

Senator John Crown, Minister for Health

The Minister for Health doesn't actually perform operations and administer treatment, you know.

I don't get the whole John Crown thing. Seems like a bit of self-publicist to me, particularly in relation to that incident when he was 'censored' re. the Late Late.

If he thinks he can fix the health service, why doesn't he stand for the Dail? Plenty of doctors do.

Presumably because its easier to be fawned upon by the likes of Pat Kenny.

Are you happy with Harney, Seinfeld? It is a cliché, but we do have a Herod and Baby situation there, don't we?

Don't know what you mean about Herod and Baby, but yes, I am happy with Harney, because since she took over, the Health Service has started to improve across all the key metrics.

I expect things to improve still further now that we have a Taoiseach who doesn't pee in his pants every time he's confronted with a Trade Union.

Which ones Seinfeld? I just looked at the Canadian study that Ard Taoiseach linked and these were the references to Ireland

Quote :

4.2 Waiting times
Waiting times are the weak spot in Canadian healthcare. Canadian health consumers with a complicated condition can be subject to up to four lengthy waits: the first, to see their family doctor, or to find a general practitioner if they do not have a regular doctor; the second, to see the appropriate specialist for
their ailment; the third, for diagnostic procedures to determine appropriate treatment; and the fourth, for treatment. It is not unusual for these cumulative delays to exceed a year.
This is reflected in Canada’s standing in this sub-discipline of the index: Canada gets only six out of 15 points, sharing the lowest score with Ireland and Sweden for waiting times.

Quote :

Ireland: The Health Service Executive reform seems to have started improving a historically dismal performance. Still severe waiting-list problems and less than fantastic outcomes.

We are 49th in world life expectancy ratings, 2 places ahead of Albania.

LINK TO CIA WORLD FACTBOOK

cactus flower wrote:

Which ones Seinfeld? I just looked at the Canadian study that Ard Taoiseach linked and these were the references to Ireland

Quote :

4.2 Waiting times
Waiting times are the weak spot in Canadian healthcare. Canadian health consumers with a complicated condition can be subject to up to four lengthy waits: the first, to see their family doctor, or to find a general practitioner if they do not have a regular doctor; the second, to see the appropriate specialist for
their ailment; the third, for diagnostic procedures to determine appropriate treatment; and the fourth, for treatment. It is not unusual for these cumulative delays to exceed a year.
This is reflected in Canada’s standing in this sub-discipline of the index: Canada gets only six out of 15 points, sharing the lowest score with Ireland and Sweden for waiting times.

Quote :

Ireland: The Health Service Executive reform seems to have started improving a historically dismal performance. Still severe waiting-list problems and less than fantastic outcomes.

I've said it a couple of times already that we have waiting list problems. Nobody denies that. The point I made in this thread is that we have *improved* across all the key metrics, including waiting times. That improvement began with the creation of the HSE, which you had noted in your references. Take a look at the EHCI report from 2006. We were last. Now we are 16th.

cactus flower wrote:

We are 49th in world life expectancy ratings, 2 places ahead of Albania.

LINK TO CIA WORLD FACTBOOK

And 1 place behind Denmark.

The CIA World Factbook is a lot of rubbish. It doesn't even give sources.

The CSO hasn't measured life expectancy in Ireland since 2003 (75 men/80 women), so I'm not sure where they got their 2008 data from; presumably from the the same place they got their Afganistan data from.

The differential in life expactancy between countries in Western Europe is neglible, which is explained by geneics and environment as much as anything else. It does not provide an accurate measure of the quality of health services.

seinfeld wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Which ones Seinfeld? I just looked at the Canadian study that Ard Taoiseach linked and these were the references to Ireland

Quote :

4.2 Waiting times
Waiting times are the weak spot in Canadian healthcare. Canadian health consumers with a complicated condition can be subject to up to four lengthy waits: the first, to see their family doctor, or to find a general practitioner if they do not have a regular doctor; the second, to see the appropriate specialist for
their ailment; the third, for diagnostic procedures to determine appropriate treatment; and the fourth, for treatment. It is not unusual for these cumulative delays to exceed a year.
This is reflected in Canada’s standing in this sub-discipline of the index: Canada gets only six out of 15 points, sharing the lowest score with Ireland and Sweden for waiting times.

Quote :

Ireland: The Health Service Executive reform seems to have started improving a historically dismal performance. Still severe waiting-list problems and less than fantastic outcomes.

I've said it a couple of times already that we have waiting list problems. Nobody denies that. The point I made in this thread is that we have *improved* across all the key metrics, including waiting times. That improvement began with the creation of the HSE, which you had noted in your references. Take a look at the EHCI report from 2006. We were last. Now we are 16th.

cactus flower wrote:

We are 49th in world life expectancy ratings, 2 places ahead of Albania.

LINK TO CIA WORLD FACTBOOK

And 1 place behind Denmark.

The CIA World Factbook is a lot of rubbish. It doesn't even give sources.

The CSO hasn't measured life expectancy in Ireland since 2003 (75 men/80 women), so I'm not sure where they got their 2008 data from; presumably from the the same place they got their Afganistan data from.

The differential in life expactancy between countries in Western Europe is neglible, which is explained by geneics and environment as much as anything else. It does not provide an accurate measure of the quality of health services.

The Canadian Report singles out Denmark's outcomes as appalling.

What data are you relying on to show improved outcomes in Ireland? I would be very happy to see some good results out of the increased spending.

cactus flower wrote:

The Canadian Report singles out Denmark's outcomes as appalling.

Denmark ranks 9th out of 27 in the EHCI report; Ireland ranks 16th out of 27.

The report offers some criticism of every system surveyed.

cactus flower wrote:

What data are you relying on to show improved outcomes in Ireland? I would be very happy to see some good results out of the increased spending.

The jump from 27th to 16th in the EHCI rankings in 1 year (2006-2007)

Waiting times have improved

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=13290

Cancer survial rates have also improved

http://www.ncri.ie/pubs/pubfiles/summary2007.pdf

From the RTE website....new Ministers of State appointed

Peter Power of Limerick East takes on responsibility for Overseas Aid.
John Moloney of Laois Offaly goes to Equality and Disability.
Michael Finneran of Roscommon South Leitrim will be Minister for Housing.
Martin Mansergh of Tipperary South takes on responsibility for the Office of Public Works.
Dublin Mid-West's John Curran becomes Minister for Drugs.
Three Junior Ministers have lost their positions - Pat the Cope Gallagher of Donegal South West; Michael Ahern of Cork East; and John Browne of Wexford.
Last week, Barry Andrews was promoted to Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, with a seat at the Cabinet table, as was Chief Whip Pat Carey, replacing Tom Kitt, who has returned to the backbenches.

expat girl wrote:

From the RTE website....new Ministers of State appointed

Peter Power of Limerick East takes on responsibility for Overseas Aid.

He was well speculated about, it's no surprise he's there.

Quote :

John Moloney of Laois Offaly goes to Equality and Disability.

There's the local organisation covered!

Quote :

Michael Finneran of Roscommon South Leitrim will be Minister for Housing.

Appropriate considering that the re-trenchment in housing is at its most acute in that region.

Quote :

Martin Mansergh of Tipperary South takes on responsibility for the Office of Public Works.

Well deserved for this elder statesman. A great Minister who never was.

Quote :

Dublin Mid-West's John Curran becomes Minister for Drugs.

A Cowen loyalist, I knew he'd get a job, pointedly, he was right in front of Cowen when he delivered his acceptance speech.

Quote :

Three Junior Ministers have lost their positions - Pat the Cope Gallagher of Donegal South West; Michael Ahern of Cork East; and John Browne of Wexford.
Last week, Barry Andrews was promoted to Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, with a seat at the Cabinet table, as was Chief Whip Pat Carey, replacing Tom Kitt, who has returned to the backbenches.

Thanks for the update, expat girl, I'm much obliged.

I know Curran very slightly. Efficient and intelligent. And a formidable vote getter. He'll go far, one way or another. I was also interested to see Power given the nod. Another man in a hurry. Only one woman in the Junior Minsters cohort. And Dublin representation kept low. Interesting.

WorldbyStorm wrote:

I know Curran very slightly. Efficient and intelligent. And a formidable vote getter. He'll go far, one way or another.

Yep, he was in fact the first TD elected to the current Dáil. He'll certainly go far, at least as long as Brian Cowen is Taoiseach! My bet is that he'll be a full Minister if the expected Fianna Fáil/Labour coalition, after the next election, comes to pass.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

WorldbyStorm wrote:

I know Curran very slightly. Efficient and intelligent. And a formidable vote getter. He'll go far, one way or another.

Yep, he was in fact the first TD elected to the current Dáil. He'll certainly go far, at least as long as Brian Cowen is Taoiseach! My bet is that he'll be a full Minister if the expected Fianna Fáil/Labour coalition, after the next election, comes to pass.

FF/Lab... I wonder if that will be the case... I'd have thought that the current little arrangement might do well enough again if the numbers are there... PDs excluded of course assuming they implode further... and I'd bet that there'll be a lot more Independents after the current rash of deals.


Completely agree. Curran will go far under Cowen's regime...

WorldbyStorm wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

WorldbyStorm wrote:

I know Curran very slightly. Efficient and intelligent. And a formidable vote getter. He'll go far, one way or another.

Yep, he was in fact the first TD elected to the current Dáil. He'll certainly go far, at least as long as Brian Cowen is Taoiseach! My bet is that he'll be a full Minister if the expected Fianna Fáil/Labour coalition, after the next election, comes to pass.

FF/Lab... I wonder if that will be the case... I'd have thought that the current little arrangement might do well enough again if the numbers are there... PDs excluded of course assuming they implode further... and I'd bet that there'll be a lot more Independents after the current rash of deals.

It's my view Fianna Fáil will lose a dozen seats at the next General Election, but Fine Gael won't make sufficient headway(ie, stay below 55), so an FF/Lab seal will become the best option out of the new Dáil.

Quote :

Completely agree. Curran will go far under Cowen's regime...

So we'll have two Ministers in this constituency, not bad for us DMWers!

seinfeld wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

The Canadian Report singles out Denmark's outcomes as appalling.

Denmark ranks 9th out of 27 in the EHCI report; Ireland ranks 16th out of 27.

The report offers some criticism of every system surveyed.

cactus flower wrote:

What data are you relying on to show improved outcomes in Ireland? I would be very happy to see some good results out of the increased spending.

The jump from 27th to 16th in the EHCI rankings in 1 year (2006-2007)

Waiting times have improved

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=13290

Cancer survial rates have also improved

http://www.ncri.ie/pubs/pubfiles/summary2007.pdf

I have just found time to look at those links Seinfeld. Eight years to see a consultant doesnt sound so good.

Quote :

However, while inroads have been made into inpatient waiting lists, outpatient lists remain a problem, with over 140,000 still believed to be on outpatient lists and some people waiting up to eight years to see a consultant in an outpatient clinic

The HSE doesnt even put people on the waiting list until they see a consultant.

Here are the comments on the not very neutral data you posted:
Even if there were 1 million on waiting lists NOTHING would be done. The HSE budget given to them by the DOH / DofFiance is inadequate to pay HSE administration/salaries and the balance for front line services. It should be the other way around !!!

t Posted: 26/03/2008 15:20
" the HSE has said it is still undertaking a verification process in order to get accurate numbers for outpatient lists" could they NOT JUST COUNT THEM!!!!!!!!!!

hammer Posted: 26/03/2008 17:44
They haven`t got a calculator that works. The ONE they have just spits out spin rather than accurate figures !!

t Posted: 26/03/2008 21:08
do they not use a state of the art abacus from a centre of excellence in arthrimetic???????

anonymous Posted: 27/03/2008 11:40
At what price and how long will they pump money into this scheme which hands over the money to vested interests and profit makers? Many of these routine procedures could be carried out in public hospitals at a cheaper rate and it would help pay for the wages of the nursing staff, which should be in those hospitals in the first place but cannot be hired bacause of a recruitment freeze. In other words the NTPF is helping to keep private hospitals in the money while neglecting the public system.

hammer Posted: 27/03/2008 16:23
Anonymous, CORRECT. Just to let you know medical insurance is about 4 times what it is in Ireland at the moment. And Mary Harney went where recently on a fact minding mission and incorporated the Super Bowl into her journey. Politicians don`t give a toss. They get paid in a boom or in a recession. In fact they postponed an increase they believe is rightly theres this year when they will go to the national pay talks next month offering a 1.5% increase !!! Protest Saturday 3pm

nk Posted: 27/03/2008 22:20
Thank u for clarity, I did wonder when it would become clear that the NTPF is lining the pockets of the fat cat's, thankfully at least some of the patients are getting some of the benefit. However it doesn't alter the fact that the private health service providers are becoming entrenched in our country's health system at the behest of our present government, and sadly the general population is either blind or chooses to keep their eyes wide shut' Wake up out there the patient's of Ireland u might be needing that bed any day now.

HELP! I'm off topic - does anyone know how to merge this into the Privatised Health Service thread?

The promotion of Barry Andrews intrigues me. I think it's a move to keep manners on Mary Hanafin. They're the FF representatives of Dún Laoghaire. If Hanafin causes a huge fuss for Cowen, he can easily drop her and replace her with an enhanced Andrews.

I feel Cowen is using the Ministers of State as daggers in the back of potentially rebellious senior ministers.