Well at least you are taking your disappointment well. Recently I read that about 400000 Britons emmigrated. I suspect that there are a lot of people wondering did they fight the war just to later give up their sovereignty. The only 2 English politicians I ever liked were Tony Benn and Enoch Powell. I also thought a lot of Arthur Scargill. I look forward to looking at some returns to see how the Liberals did. If they can gain a position where they are seen as a viable alternative then every single Labour MP could lose his seat.

I've a small foothold in London through my family. Boris is a
likeable character but I'm concerned about what the impact will be on
public transport investment. As someone on p.ie said today, you'd
have a drink with Boris but you'd want Ken to run London.

If the Tories get back in next time expect three things to be
fundamentally damaged: the BBC, the railways and Britain's relationship
with the EU.

MAYORAL ELECTION RESULTS

Name Party 1st pref % 2nd pref % Final
Johnson CON 1,043,761 42.48 124,977 1,168,738
Livingstone LAB 893,877 36.38 135,089 1,028,966
Paddick LD 236,685 9.63
Berry GRN 77,374 3.15
Barnbrook BNP 69,710 2.84
Craig CPA 39,249 1.6
Batten UKIP 22,422 0.91
German LL 16,796 0.68
O'Connor END 10,695 0.44
McKenzie IND 5,389 0.22

I understand that in the local elections, by numbers of votes polled, the Lib Dems polled more than Labour, who came in third.

Like Atticus, I am less than happy to see the British National Party, a neo fascist outfit, getting nealy 70,000 votes, fourth and next after the Greens.

Does anybody know who the other candidates are?

There is a relatively small but noisy minority in Britain that is
sympathetic to UKIP and the BNP. Frankly the only difference that
I can see between the two is that UKIP is middle class. The worst
thing about the Tories is their constant attention to the Alf Garnett
and Enoch Powell brigade in moving the Tories towards increased
Euroscepticism and British isolationism/atlanticism.

All the working class of Britain will gain from a more Atlanticist
Britain is the thrilling opportunity to be cannon fodder in Neocon
wars.

cactus flower wrote:

Berry GRN 77,374 3.15

3.15% !! That's a poor showing by the Green candidate Sian Berry.

I see that the B.N.P. gets an Assembly rep. From the vox pop the removal of the 10p tax rate seems to have been a suicidal move by Labour. In my view Labour has no chance in two year's time unless they dump Brown right away. He is not going to get any better. Labour, already a centrist party, moves to the right at its peril. It is outflanked by the LibDems on the war and opens the door even wider to disaffected working class voters turning to the BNP.

cactus flower wrote:

I understand that in the local elections, by numbers of votes polled, the Lib Dems polled more than Labour, who came in third.

Like Atticus, I am less than happy to see the British National Party, a neo fascist outfit, getting nealy 70,000 votes, fourth and next after the Greens.

Does anybody know who the other candidates are?

A lot of people in the Labour Party, including at Cabinet level, have been aware for some years of the danger of the BNP. A lot of Blunkett's anti-immigrant stuff over the years was done with the hope of persuading the white "working class" (for want of a much better description) not to go the BNP route. I haven't been surprised but certainly disgusted and dismayed that they got Barnbrook into the GLA. What is really shocking is how close the BNP vote was to the Green vote. That was appalling.

BTW Lindsay German of Left List is the former (maybe still current) head of the Stop the War movement, plus a member / former member of George Galloway's Respect "party". Ex SWP type, splitter from Galloway's shower.

I am proud to have marched against the War on Feb 15 '03, a truly inspiring memorable occasion. But I didn't go to any marches thereafter, as German's type rapidly took it over.

Funny, the one party I really reserve my ire for in this election has been the Lib Dems. What in the name of four-x were they thinking in putting Paddick forward? Had they put a more credible candidate forward, things might have been different.

I have personally cheered Paddick on a few occasions but he is no politician and frankly was CV padding. I think Rory Bremner got it absolutely right in his Apprentice sketch last Sunday night.

well ... not the end of the world but definitely feels like the beginning of the end of an era ...

Atticus wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

I understand that in the local elections, by numbers of votes polled, the Lib Dems polled more than Labour, who came in third.

Like Atticus, I am less than happy to see the British National Party, a neo fascist outfit, getting nealy 70,000 votes, fourth and next after the Greens.

Does anybody know who the other candidates are?

A lot of people in the Labour Party, including at Cabinet level, have been aware for some years of the danger of the BNP. A lot of Blunkett's anti-immigrant stuff over the years was done with the hope of persuading the white "working class" (for want of a much better description) not to go the BNP route. I haven't been surprised but certainly disgusted and dismayed that they got Barnbrook into the GLA. What is really shocking is how close the BNP vote was to the Green vote. That was appalling.

Trying to move to the right to keep up with racists has not done Labour any good electorally. That is not the Labour constituency.
Taking a strong stance against it might have been more productive, particularly when people are worried about the future. With a serious recession possible, stoking up racial hostility would be unforgivable in a party that calls itself (I think) socialist. What in the name of *** were they thinking of with the 10p tax rate.

Are there rumblings in the Labour party membership/PP yet?

(just for the record, am not a member of any political party)

Totally agree with you re the BNP and Labour's eternal triangulating round (!) problems. Some issues are not to be triangulated.

"Socialist"? what's that? Word hasn't been used in so long (not with a straight face anyway).

10p tax rate - can they really not have known what they were doing? Let there be no doubt - New Labour has been very, very good to the rich and to the private firms slavering over whatever remains of public ownership in the UK.

Among my English friends, Brown will quite simply never be accepted as a proper PM. He's too Scottish, treated as some miserable foreigner.

In my time in the UK, one of the most fascinating issues to follow has been the constitutional dismantling (as i call it) of the UK. I really don't think Labour quite knew what it was doing, hadn't thought thru the implications. I believe this really is a major issue in the next few years. And I shall be fascinated to see what the Tories do.

Has Scotland got any oil left?

Well, the UK has some North Sea oil left, but not enough to fulfill Alec Salmond's fantasies, even if he did get it back for Scotland's exclusive use.

What dismantling took place Atticus

Atticus wrote:

10p tax rate - can they really not have known what they were doing? Let there be no doubt - New Labour has been very, very good to the rich and to the private firms slavering over whatever remains of public ownership in the UK.

Definitely. Look at the Sunday Times Rich List. Ever since New Labour swept the boards in 1997, the ranks of the super-rich have just grown and grown. It's their continued courting of foreign capital that saw London to being the world's financial capital.

It'll be interesting to see how that fares under a Conservative-controlled UK and London.

youngdan wrote:

What dismantling took place Atticus

I think he was meaning devolution of powers to Scotland and Wales.

cactus flower wrote:

youngdan wrote:

What dismantling took place Atticus

I think he was meaning devolution of powers to Scotland and Wales.

And to Northern Ireland, the strong political base of the London Mayor and the Assembly and the proposal to have regional assemblies across the UK.

This has had secondary effects where Cornwall, Devon and other areas have become more assertive about their independence and their cultures.

The UK is slowly dissolving under the devolutionary pressures which were begun by New Labour.

I consider that to be very good and I have talked about it before as it is discussed in my favourite book The Sovereign Individual

youngdan wrote:

I consider that to be very good and I have talked about it before as it is discussed in my favourite book The Sovereign Individual

You're quite in favour of polities sub-dividing and reducing from current monolithic nation-states, aren't you, youngdan?

Yes I am, There is a race on to cement the superstate together before devolution gains momentum.. The smaller the state the less waste and the more say an individual has. I would be surprised if Cornwall invaded the Isle of Man. The cost of these European busibodies don't come cheap and the td,s like their perks as well. The cost of the federal government here is over 3000 billion dollars a year.

youngdan wrote:

Yes I am, There is a race on to cement the superstate together before devolution gains momentum.. The smaller the state the less waste and the more say an individual has. I would be surprised if Cornwall invaded the Isle of Man. The cost of these European busibodies don't come cheap and the td,s like their perks as well. The cost of the federal government here is over 3000 billion dollars a year.

But surely you recognise the need for certain functions to be shared on a national level? To keep this on topic, look at the new Mayor Johnson. It would be impractical for him to advocate an army just for London and a secret service agency just for London. London isn't big enough or distinct enough to warrant such organisation. These organisations are better co-ordinated at a UK level. Whatever about the waste of central government, it is necessary in some instances.

Why would London need an army unless they were expecting some shower of Kents giving them grief.

Keep going lads - nice discussion developing on the interplay of local and national govts.

If ye want to play it out a bit more on this then please do and I will create a new thread from the last few posts.