Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Now that Gustav is a plain old tropical storm and the US' refineries are barely affected, production should start up pretty soon and that has put an awful lot of supply back into the market.

I'm interested to see exactly how far the oil price might fall. It could go all the way down to 80 with the UK, Japan, France, Spain, Germany and Italy recessionary and Chindia easing off a bit.

Optimistic AT, optimistic. You might remember that after we had the last bad hurricane season, early 2006 was pretty cold. That means energy consumption. And, in two words you might hear soon....hurricane and Ike. Cat4 already and hasn't even been through Cuba/Haiti/Florida.

Cactus flower might be right... another 3-4 years of this and we'll be begging Vlad and Dmitri to take over.

I agree. The US will become a power house of renewables investment.

They may want to rent Ireland as as turbine stand

cactus flower wrote:

I agree. The US will become a power house of renewables investment.

They may want to rent Ireland as as turbine stand

De lads in Oxford (probably the last few physicists/engineers left in the UK who haven't bailed out and started work in the City) have come up with a nice new tidal thingy that might be somewhat useful.

new dawn of innovation, anyone?? For selfish reasons, 'twould be nice if the odd humble scientist got a bit more respect..... At the moment, we, as a species, are looking like we're at the top of that logarithmic "bacteria in a flask" growth curve.....gotta find a new energy source....or....
...
...
.

I think it will be the dawn of a new age of innovation because we haven't got a lot of choice. New energy sources and new technologies will be developed. We'll adapt to living up the hills and eating less.D

Unless of course Cheney gets reelected. :

cactus flower wrote:

Unless of course Cheney gets reelected. :

ah yes, the "glowing in the dark down the nuclear bunker is the new fashion statement" vision of the future.

He can't get re-elected short of a coup, can he?? What happens if McCain is taken ill pre-election?? (or Obama, for that matter)??

expat girl wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Unless of course Cheney gets reelected. :

ah yes, the "glowing in the dark down the nuclear bunker is the new fashion statement" vision of the future.

He can't get re-elected short of a coup, can he?? What happens if McCain is taken ill pre-election?? (or Obama, for that matter)??

Who'se backing Obama ?

I'm not of the view that we're all doomed doomed doomed but I do think there is a nasty risk that shouldn't be ignored.

expat girl wrote:

What happens if McCain is taken ill pre-election?? (or Obama, for that matter)??

That is one that has been puzzling me as well, does the VP slot take over or the person with the next highest number of delegates?

I agree with you about the need for us to get on and develop alternative energy ASAP. It is obviously necessary. Also agree that Scientists, Engineers and many other practical and applied people should be held in higher esteme. Earlier was with a friend who has a Ph.D Chemistry, runs a business maintaining software for some businesses in the City. No real prospects in Chemistry, just does not pay. Others I know also work in fields totally unrelated to science. Governments say they want to improve grades in maths and science, students aren't stupid they see Barrister and have a guess at their income and then look at the opportunities in science and engineering. The opportunities just aren't there.

cactus flower wrote:

Who's backing Obama ?

YoungDan is very good on this. All sorts of not very pleasant suggestions, so we can expect no radical change in foreign policy. He is a Chicago politician, fully one of Mayor Daley's team. Axelrod sort of gives it away. Change we can believe in! He certainly has a brass neck.

The same crowd is backing both of them. At the very top are the Royal Families of Europe and Baron Rothschild. Below them are the banking elites in the City of London and Wall Street. Below them we have the cogs of the wheel, these are the Trilatoral Commission, The Bilderbergs and CFR. Below these are the politicians like Bush and Brown. Every politician can be destroyed in an instant by the media which is owned by about 5 companies

Have a readand see if you agree
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-19-opt-out-qa_N.htm

Obama has opted out of the public funding system so that he can raise as much as he likes. His campaign has huge funding. The spin has been that it is small internet donations. Here are some of the other theories.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-19-opt-out-qa_N.htm


(I give up. He seems to be funded by everybody)

http://www.eons.com/groups/topic/625039-Who-is-funding-Obama-

I would like to hear about your thoughts on the Royals youngdan. These quaint old puppets are on a lot of invitation lists.

I will have more on them but they are at the top of the food chain. She can dissolve parliament anytime she likes by declaring an emergency and rule with The Privy Council.

Look at the republican primary race even. Rudy announced his run by going to England. The story was that he was to visit Thather. We saw just a week ago a story in the paper where Thather's daughter has said that Maggie has been mentally incapacitated for some years now. When McCain was pushed forward after Rudy failed he went to London for a fundraiser hosted by none other than Baron Rothschild.

If one thinks that the president is the boss then I don't know what to say. The common belief is that Britain is the lapdog of the US. To believe this one would have to assume Blair to be pretty stupid. It is Britain who is the boss as the poor Argies learned the hard way.

youngdan wrote:

Thatcher's daughter has said...

Have you ever seen Carol Thatcher?

Enough said.

youngdan wrote:

I will have more on them but they are at the top of the food chain. She can dissolve parliament anytime she likes by declaring an emergency and rule with The Privy Council.

If Queenie tried any such stunt Squire, like many others, would be sharpening they woodsman's axe and searching the basement for a suitable block.

Squire wrote:

youngdan wrote:

I will have more on them but they are at the top of the food chain. She can dissolve parliament anytime she likes by declaring an emergency and rule with The Privy Council.

If Queenie tried any such stunt Squire, like many others, would be sharpening they woodsman's axe and searching the basement for a suitable block.

Behind all the trappings Britain is a Parliamentary democracy: the Royals are there on suffrance. It must always be at the back of the Royal mind that Charles I met his end in Whitehall, just down the road, on a chopping block in public. The City tradesmen were more eonomically powerful than the Royals and they had to put a system in place that gave them political power. Universal suffrage was hard fought for - it was two revolutions in Britain before the ordinary man had a vote. The good Squire would have plenty of company who would deal with the Royals if they got above themselves. There was a flirtation of the far right and IS with Mountbatten with a view to a coup against the elected government, but he may have himself pulled the plug on it.

The US like a nice compliant puppet King or Queen and have dug a few out and popped them on thrones with strings attached: I have read this story before, but it is vigorously and succintly told here - "F - you and your democracy" said the US President to the Greeks.LINK

It is an interesting footnote to this story that it was the invasion of Cyprus by the Turks that toppled the military dictatorship in Greece. Something to remember when we are all scaring ourselves about letting the Turks into the EU.

It is also worth remembering that the King in England never had absolute power. At best he always needed to carry the support of the Earls and Barons or life was short. After Becket the church, which was powerful elsewhere, was also neutered.

We hear of Magna Carta Libertatum as the start of the limitation of power, but their power was always held in check by other nobles, that was a formalisation of reality.

We then have accounts of the Black Death and how it helped break up the medieval structures, but to my mind the structures were already in decline. The constant wars and power strugles had losers that went out of favour and they weren't all butchered. Many went into raising sheep and kept their heads down. London and its traders became increasingly important. So you developed a wide group across the land who had growing financial clout and whose loyalty to the King was limited.

When Henry Tudor eventually became King after the tragedyat Bosworth field, much of the House of York and all their support lost favour. Now they may not have had the energy for more slaughter, but that did not mean that they were entirely happy bunnies. The very mediocre Tudors were never as powerful as the Plantegenets and the Stuarts were utter buffoons. It was middle England that supported Cromwell. It was the people whose forefathers would have supported Edward III or Henry V that decided to remove the Kings head. Several hundred years earlier they did much the same to weak kings but what is interesting is that it was done by means of parliament rather than initially mustering the troops and taking to the field. They completely outwitted a not very intelligent King.

After Charles I parliament was where the power resided.

Squire wrote:

After Charles I parliament was where the power resided.

I've read Churchill's account of the Revolution in his book "History of the English-Speaking Peoples" and it did seem like a mighty and sudden change of power from the Divinely Righteous to the Moneyed, after that axe fell across the king's neck in 1639. They even put a puppet king, Charles II in afterwards as a decoration.

I'd be interested to know how radical that change was although from your post you'd imagine that power had been drifting from the throne for years before, being partially in the hands of other royals and levels of royalty. What is starkest about it, is that the Army became controlled by civilians who had money; perhaps this was always the case though because what is a king but a civilian with power and money. Maybe certain dynasties had been broken by that war.

Are there any decent screen adaptations of it - the politics and battles seem to so far have slipped from the celluloid eye.

expat girl wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Now that Gustav is a plain old tropical storm and the US' refineries are barely affected, production should start up pretty soon and that has put an awful lot of supply back into the market.

I'm interested to see exactly how far the oil price might fall. It could go all the way down to 80 with the UK, Japan, France, Spain, Germany and Italy recessionary and Chindia easing off a bit.

Optimistic AT, optimistic. You might remember that after we had the last bad hurricane season, early 2006 was pretty cold. That means energy consumption. And, in two words you might hear soon....hurricane and Ike. Cat4 already and hasn't even been through Cuba/Haiti/Florida.

But the unemployment rate is surging in the US, the UK is in recession, Japan is heading into one, Canada is borderline, Germany and France are in economic free-fall and Italy is its characteristically weak self. There's just not enough demand out there to support prices.

Quote :

Cactus flower might be right... another 3-4 years of this and we'll be begging Vlad and Dmitri to take over.

I don't think so, why would we let those psychotic double-act rule our affairs? That is defeatist, fatalism at its worst.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

expat girl wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Now that Gustav is a plain old tropical storm and the US' refineries are barely affected, production should start up pretty soon and that has put an awful lot of supply back into the market.

I'm interested to see exactly how far the oil price might fall. It could go all the way down to 80 with the UK, Japan, France, Spain, Germany and Italy recessionary and Chindia easing off a bit.

Optimistic AT, optimistic. You might remember that after we had the last bad hurricane season, early 2006 was pretty cold. That means energy consumption. And, in two words you might hear soon....hurricane and Ike. Cat4 already and hasn't even been through Cuba/Haiti/Florida.

But the unemployment rate is surging in the US, the UK is in recession, Japan is heading into one, Canada is borderline, Germany and France are in economic free-fall and Italy is its characteristically weak self. There's just not enough demand out there to support prices.

Quote :

Cactus flower might be right... another 3-4 years of this and we'll be begging Vlad and Dmitri to take over.

I don't think so, why would we let those psychotic double-act rule our affairs? That is defeatist, fatalism at its worst.

Seems like it's bursting alright but I don't doubt it'll bubble back but it's not a typical market is it being based on a resource that's finite? Here's some reports from recently and the last few weeks:

The Guardian
Is oil going back under $100 a barrel? Not if Opec can help it

CNN
Oil hits 5-month low as demand shrinks

The Economist
Iraqi oil Welling up

Johnfas. I know nothing about Carol Thatcher except the video clip. Are you saying that she was lying about her mother suffering senility for the last 5/6 years.

There is zero chance of the English public doing anything. The English are long gone.

youngdan wrote:

Johnfas. I know nothing about Carol Thatcher except the video clip. Are you saying that she was lying about her mother suffering senility for the last 5/6 years.

There is zero chance of the English public doing anything. The English are long gone.

I trust you are wrong. I last was facing the same direction as them outside Rupert Murdoch's new press in the East End. I'm out of touch now, but then they looked like this:

Where the Hell did you get that picture of me enjoying my vacation

Power lies in the hands of middle England and has done for the last 800 years. The public school boys run the country. Successful revolutions never start with the working class. No you are in trouble when those a few steps down from the top decide enough. Be in absolutely no doubt that for many Queenie and family are there under sufferance. A bit of pageantry keeps the masses happy. Some of the 'Barons' are a lot more powerful.


Anyway back to the ISEQ back to 4282

Does not seem to have the will to go anywhere.

The market is screwed and on it's way to 1000 like I said a year ago. Not only is the market screwed but the entire monetary system is screwed as well. Time for a song http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8052364047449234587&ei=zJXDSJXzOYzWqQLg8YC6BQ&q=it%27s+over&vt=lf

youngdan wrote:

The market is screwed and on it's way to 1000 like I said a year ago. Not only is the market screwed but the entire monetary system is screwed as well. Time for a song [url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8052364047449234587&ei=zJXDSJXzOYzWqQLg8YC6BQ&q=it%27s+over&vt=lf

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8052364047449234587&ei=zJXDSJXzOYzWqQLg8YC6BQ&q=it%27s+over&vt=lf[/quote[/url]]

You are right there, youngdan. After the beginning of November, it's toime to take cover, regardless of who gets in. The monetary system is well and truly screwed. "Uncle Miltie" is having a laugh from beyond the grave. "What a bunch of assholes. You couldn't see that neo-liberalist economics was a heap of steaming cowshit. It started out as a joke, honestly."

PS Have you seen on the other site that one of the four horses asses of the apostrophe is now sporting a "Sarah Palin" avatar?

Quote :

PS Have you seen on the other site that one of the four horses asses of the apostrophe is now sporting a "Sarah Palin" avatar?
Slim Buddha

What I find sad, is the posters on P.ie and the Pin who whoop over what they think are the fat cat's woes, and don't realise yet that the number is on the ticket is theirs. Ben Dunne can sell his helicopter for 2 million readies. They have nothing to sell once the second hand Toyota is gone.

A large part of the world is struggling to buy food, which is the main item of their daily budget. The free market that promised everyone would be rich rich rich was a joke, but not a joke on the hyper rich who will have plenty of salvage out of the operation. It will be every class for itself. The British working class were an organised force with the strongest Trade Unions in the world, but they were a wages movement, not geared to social change, just to increasing the number of crumbs from the Empire's takings that would come to their members. Maybe there is a point at which they will drag themselves away from Eastenders and do something. Its in the developing countries and in China and India that you'd definitely want to watch for something different.

The ISEQ will I suppose soon revert to the level of the Georgian Bourse, which meets three times a week for an hour after lunch?

My interests are in the main out East, abandoned ship some time ago. Crazy not to. My money went so much further there and in many ways there are real needs and not artificial bubbles. Real needs and steady returns is something that I can comprehend.

What many don't realise is money and those with some are mobile. The one's left to pick up the wreckage are sleep walking and living on dreams.